Yeah you should start looking for a replacement that one only has another 50,000 miles left in it.

Thin stack easier to get neutral, new stack harder.
What slave?
what pack?
what master?
pushrod picture?

I changed my first basket prematurely as there was wear worse than you have, it changed nothing.
That said if the wife is looking I can argue the ecological benefits of a aluminum 48 tooth basket.

 

Be aware, that if you get a 48 tooth, they are just a noisy(good), and still sound like "Track?-Track!-Track?-Track!-Track?....."

 

Haha fair enough! Master is OEM, slave is Oberon. Has been Oberon for 10+ years with no issue, although I get it might not be quite as forgiving as the OEM one. Pack I assume was replaced by Ducati main dealer, has the setup I've seen Shazam list on Avanti website, I don't have thicker steels to swap out and given steels seem and frictions both seem to come up short I thought replace the lot... Haha yea I did consider telling the wife all about the safety benefit of going to a slipper clutch but I honestly can't afford that without sacrificing the scheduled desmo service and trip to the Catalan GP, both of which are essential!

You're thinking if anything a newer/taller stack will only make my neutral issue worse? I can't get my head round this, it clicks in to neutral fine when engine not running....

 

looks like the big star washer is eating into the front of the hub. work through this list.

ime, things that can make it drag, from the top:

air in the system. not as hard to bleed as many make out. if it's hard to bleed, turn the bars to the right and tilt the bike over so that the tip of the lever is the highest point and gently pull the lever in and out. this will work any air in the hose up to the master and out. if it's a coffin style master you can spray fluid everywhere doing this, so maybe put the cap on. you can feel the lever get harder if there's air coming out. slow pulls, a few fast, slow, tap the hose, make sure there's no high point loops in the hose, etc.

worn lever pivot - either the hole in the lever or the actual pin itself. st should have the older style large hollow pin lever pivot, the pins can wear a lot on bikes that don't get lubed, as can the lever. on these masters, the pin pushing the piston can also wear shorter.

on masters with the smaller, solid pin, the barrel on the end of the piston pushrod can wear in the lever, i've seen lots almost worn through the lever.

crap aftermarket levers giving excessive free play.

aftermarket slaves that are a larger in piston diameter, increasing the hydraulic ratio to soften the lever, but decreasing the slave piston travel correspondingly. the pressure plate might not be lifting far enough.

while not really drag specific, worn pushrods, slave pistons and seized pushrod bearings in the pressure plate. the seized bearing will spin the pushrod and it'll wear away and into the piston. i had a 900ss in once that the owner had had long time clutch issues with from new (tip - it's not the bike, it's you) when it was maybe 15 years old. it needed a new pack and once fitted i pumped the lever and the slave piston and pushrod were so worn that the piston popped out of the slave body. scared the shit out of me when it went bang.

warped steel plates. there should be 1 x 1.5mm "spring" steel plate, which is conical and if you put it on a flat surface and press the outer edge (if it's the right way up) the opposite edge will lift. the 7 friction plate pack the st has would also have had 8 x 2mm flat steel plates. using a very flat surface, check the rest of the steel plates to see if any of the other plates behave like the spring plate, flipping them to check both sides. if they do, they're warped and need replacing. you can't get around them being warped. you may also find someone has fitted more than 1 of the 1.5mm spring plates. there are also flat 1.5mm steel plates, used in the 1098 onwards 8 friction plate packs and the surflex sintered 8 friction plate packs that used to come in sp/sps/r models, so don't think any and all 1.5mm steel plates are springs. unless you have a stash of good steel plates, the only place to get them is a new complete pack. oem, barnett, ducabike, newfren, adige, surflex make packs. aluminium plates in a steel basket will make the plates sacrificial.

watching from above, pull the lever in and see if the spring caps move outwards as the lever free play takes up, then stop and then the pressure plate starts lifting off the pack. if so, the large star like washer at the front of the hub is eating its way into the hub. pretty common. you can add another washer (i've seen up to 4) or replace the hub if it's very worn. the original hub centre is a rubber block cush drive assembly, so it will move a little when ok, but only a little. if you remove the pressure plate and pack and push the hub backwards you can usually see the wear there.

i really don't agree that wear in the basket makes any real difference to how the clutch disengages. i have a customer that some idiot put steel plates into an aluminium basket 50,000km ago, and the plates have eaten their way quite a few mm into the basket. it's lovely to use.

sometimes, the peened out bits of the tangs on the plates in the picture can get between the steel plates and hold the pack apart and make it slip. just grind the peened out bits off and stick it back in.

so start at the top and work your way down. i've been intending to make a video of this for ever, but never get to it.

if you can't select neutral with the engine running, but it's easy with the engine off, it means the clutch is dragging.

if you have a large bore slave meant to change the ratio which will in itself extend the take up distance, you might be able to do away with the conical plate. worth trying.

 

Ok, appreciate that belter! Will try in the order you say... Without the bike in front I can't think what/where the star washer is but will look.

My conical steel is marked as that, but in reality it's pretty much flat (not perfectly but close to it). My stack is already shorter than spec so don't want to do away with any plates, I do think regardless of basket I will need a new set of steels and frictions, but yes will get one of those brands you mention, ideally stick to steel in steel. That will eliminate the peened tangs catching too if that's the cause. The Oberon slave as I say has been on there 10-20 years without any issue so it does work at least when plates have more life in them. Cheers
..

 

that big steel thing chewing into your clutch hub next to the spring post.

 

You could be more like me and just treat your girl to stuff she really doesn't need mechanically but pleases her owner.

 

You could be more like me and just treat your girl to stuff she really doesn't need mechanically...

Nah... she needs something like this:

NCR slipper assembly... heinously expensive, and worth every penny.

 

So I didn't follow the order as I had all the plates put already. 2nd photo, that hexagonal collar (assume that's he star washer thing you mention?) Is not eating into the hub, so good news there. That extra check of taking slack from the master and looking down, no movement in the spring collars etc either to confirm. Only thing I did notice is when pushing the hub into the cush bit, felt very rough and it stuck back, but guess it's not likely to have a proper springy return?

Springs and collars seem fine, put all plates back in std order, flipped the frictions so the slightly less peened edge is taking the hit on the basket now.

Third pic is the pressure plate - there are holes either side of the spring collar holes, they look like they are wear and not machined in!? Will look to replace... The bearing worked but end of the push rod has formed a tiny bit of a nipple (tried to show In first pic).

I clamped the lever down for an hour or so and then tried to tease any bubbles out. Pretty sure when I bled the other day I did a decent job of that in the end and doesn't seem to have changed anything doing that today...

I haven't taken master apart but wondering if this observation helps: I can now not get up into 2nd with bike running (not neutral), I can clunk down into first then that's it. However, if on a paddock stand, I can pull the clutch lever in and there is no dragging as the rear wheel completely stops. Does that mean I might be barking up the wrong tree and my issue could be gearbox? Selector fork or something?

I will order new friction plates and probably pressure plate. Leave the basket for now seems to be the consensus.

It might make an issue worse, but I'm convinced slave is not the only issue as it's been on there for so long and no trouble. Likewise the peened tangs are there but not bad enough to hold the plates apart. Master could still be at fault but if it's disengaging the clutch pressure on 1st to stop any rotation of the wheel I'm reluctant to get a rebuild kit and go through that when I think that's telling me it's fine..?

Willing to stand corrected on any of that!
Cheers

 

Another thing to check is the master cylinder, if it is original it might be time for a new piston/seal or depending on the condition of the bore, replacement of the unit. A tired seal will allow pressure to bleed past when the lever is held in. Quick actuation will generate enough pressure to disengage/shift ok but holding the clutch in can let fluid bleed by and slowly engage the clutch.

 

@belter - I think you were bang on to start with. Once I've changed the friction plates to a stack within tolerance (39mm now), I've also swapped the pressure plate and push rod, the bearing wasn't completely seized but wasn't v free and milled a nipple onto push rod, so new pressure plate (incl bearings etc), springs and push rod.

Now it's happening as you said, the slack is taken up by the hub when you pull the lever, before the springs then give. What happens after that, the next pump of the lever is the hub doesn't return and the lever goes solid as nothing has pushed the slave piston back in. I've tried to take a pic of the gap, it doesn't seem as much as the push rod throw should be but convinced this is what's happening..

So, another washer I guess, but I'm a bit scared of the 140nm nut! Various opinions about the tool to use to lock the basket, metal 'laser' one or plastic that locks into the cover bolt holes... Then a 20" torque wrench. Or is a long breaker bar essential??

 

Looking again, here's the gap with the hub pushed all the way back, it's not insignificant!