Start with better gearing if you have not done so already:

DRIVEN Light Front Sprocket 525/14T

SUPERSPROX "Stealth" 525 Sprocket: 748-998,848,S4R,MH,MTS,HM in a 38T

 

Cam timing, proper squish, fim chip, custom map, T1 sps cams, 1036 big bore kit,
Turbo? just a thought.

 

How much money do you have to spend.

 

how much money do you have to spend.

+1

 

You might have to do some mods here and there, but you can probably shoehorn one of these babies between the fairings.

 

Ive only been riding my Duc for like a month. I am wanting to get as much power out of her as i can.. Please help me out with suggestions on what to do.

There aren't many bigger fans of these bikes than me, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you want big power. It's expensive and ultimately limited. I recommend making handling improvements instead. If you really need more power, then opt for the 998 or something newer.

 

is the 998 that much better for power ?? i mean i don't know exactly what they did to it but it is only 2cc more...

 

Do the major service on the bike by the book.
Everything including valve clearance, TPS resistance, suspension and brake fluid, everything.
The bikes gotta be about 10 years old for gods sake.

That's about as good as it needs to be.

 

is the 998 that much better for power ?? i mean i don't know exactly what they did to it but it is only 2cc more...

Not just the 2 ccs that make the difference it was the complete redesign of the motor. As stated above make sure the maintenance is done first as that could be very expensive depending on who's doing it. Then start small: cams degreed, PCIII or other fuel tuning, you may not see much overall power gains but the but will be set up correctly. I've just had Pistal pistons installed and love it though you're going to spend a lot to do so. You could easily spend $10K on the motor and have less HP then dropping in a 999R or 1098 motor. Spend your cash on the small stuff and dial in the suspension.

 

Your playing with fire to modify a 10 year old engine for more power. All things that need to be done to accomplish the goals of significate more power stress the motor. Revs,compression and added displacement.

 

Along these lines, I just purchased a '98 916 SPS that is going in for an early12k service and a very thorough going over. What are the collective thoughts on setting the cam timing (109/109 seems to be the target for these motors/cams) while the belts are getting done? It has a Power Commander so we can play with it. Not looking to try and make big HP, but while they are in there, I am willing to consider the simple things (i.e. no big bore kit ).

Anything else that should be done/considered besides the complete service and check out?

Thanks for your input!

Best regards,
Mike

 

Along these lines, I just purchased a '98 916 SPS that is going in for an early12k service and a very thorough going over. What are the collective thoughts on setting the cam timing (109/109 seems to be the target for these motors/cams) while the belts are getting done? It has a Power Commander so we can play with it. Not looking to try and make big HP, but while they are in there, I am willing to consider the simple things (i.e. no big bore kit ).

Anything else that should be done/considered besides the complete service and check out?

Thanks for your input!

If I'm not mistaken Brad Black likes the 109/109 setting very much. It's an easy way to pull a couple of HPs without buying new parts. Additionally since you will be doing it at the same time you are doing the belts it probably won't cost that much more than doing the belts alone. The only issued I had when I degreed my cams was the purchase of the offset cam keys. My dealer went through Ducati and was told that they will stop producing them soon. The alternative would be to find some adjustable cam pulleys but those can be hard to find and expensive when you do. Keep looking for them, they are around.

 

109/109 works really well. Advance intakes below 106 or so and you start losing topend and a couple more degrees and you run out of safe piston to valve clearance + it gets a bit dull character with massive bottom end and weak top.
My 2c.

Here is the kind of power curve 109/109 gives, its the proposition I like to see with tq peaks evenly matched.
More advance on the intakes and first peak goes up and second down, retard intake and first goes down and second up.

 

Thanks guys. I'll look into going 109/109 and see what can be done regarding keys/pulleys. Anything else you could recommend?

Nichols Manufacturing has pulleys for $60 http://nicholsmfg.com/motorcycle/in...lypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=10&category_id=28&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 that are 0, +-2, +-4. Funny, as those are the guys I plan to have do the belts (from local recommendations). I think I'll run over there for lunch today and chat with them.

Best regards,
Mike

 

Nichols Manufacturing has pulleys for $60 Pulleys that are 0, +-2, +-4. Funny, as those are the guys I plan to have do the belts (from local recommendations). I think I'll run over there for lunch today and chat with them.

Not sure if I would use the Nichols only because the offset woodruff keys would be cheaper, if Ducati still has them. I'm assuming that it is $60 for one pully and you would need four. Your call though. EMS, they are sponsers on this forum, may have a set of fully adjustable type. Check them out. I'm sure the nichols would work great and be a bit lighter.

 

SPSs are typically right in order to specs which is 119 at intakes, so you need something more radical. A free wheel or a STM wheel will do it.
You want to advance the intakes around 10 degrees.
Aussie V2 had a great set of wheels but I think I bought the last ones back in 08

Problems with woodruf keys is Ducati dont make them anymore (and theyre 40 usd a piece, in europe at least), also they arent very accurate. Its a true dilemma.
Although dont stare at the numbers too much, 112/112 would make a hell of a difference from what they typically have, see?
Actually I'd like to try a bit less overlap on an SPS, as they tend to have a straighter curve with less overlap.

109 and then some advance at the ex cam may do it too, I havent had too many to try on.
Hang on to 109 intake and then advance the ex cam to 111-2.

 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the thoughts. I just got back from Nichols and had a great discussion. The head mechanic raced a 996R back in the day and still tracks it. They have a '97 916 SPS they are working on now and lots of Desmo track bikes sitting around the shop.

They have offset keys in every flavor that they have specially made up for doing cams - which they do a lot of. They really like going with 110/107 on this motor, though they say 109/109 works pretty good as well. Bottom line is they agree cam timing is definitely worth doing during the major service. Love to hear some input on their recommended cam timing settings.

In any case, I plan to change the cam timing (settings TBD) when I do belts and then map it. We'll see how it does on the dyno.

Of course they were happy to recommend I pick up some 30 degree triples (for both bikes ), and get my 998 remapped for this crappy California gas/methanol/sewer water stuff we get at the pumps these days, and some new tires on the 998, as mine are dead.

Thanks again,
Mike

 

When completed please post any pics of the work and of course the dyno chart after tuning.

 

Will do. Happy to try and add some info to the existing knowledge base. Thanks again everyone.

Best regards,
Mike

Will this do for now?

 

What do we do with a Dodge Vipee dyno sheet?

 

The best you'll see from a Desmoquattro motor is about 145bhp and 108NM. However, at these levels, crankcase lifespan ca be a major issue.
The deepsump motors are much stronger, and would be a better starting point. It's possible to fit 996 heads onto a 998/999 crankcase so you retain the same exhausts and airbox placements, however, the bottom exhaust will need to be run around the sump.
and really, really don't start revving a shallow sump motor past 10500 rpm for prolonged use, ie heavy track use. They really don't like it. i've learnt this one myself!!

 

BassGT3 - thanks, good info there.

nine16 - the prior poster asked for a dyno sheet and it was the only dyno sheet I had around the house from an Italian vehicle (my Fiat/Dodge) until I get the 916 done . Guess there isn't much room for humor in this thread - sorry.

Mike

 

:think:

I'm watchin' this now...
My '99 has the PCIII, and a half Termi... The Injectors have now been set - the stumble is much reduced, but still there at around 3500. I am now getting ready to have the Map done on the Dyno.

Thinking I'd better go ahead and get the cams dialed first.

Didn't I read somewhere that the ST4 had cam wheels that bolt right up and are fully adjustable..?

 

OK, so the 12k service is finally underway on my new-to-me 916 SPS (and all the internals look good - whew). Attached is the baseline dyno run with a peak of 124.8. Full throttle it was running a touch lean (13.3 - 13.5:1) and part throttle it was quite rich (<12:1) - which is probably a major component of the part throttle surging I was experiencing.

Dyno numbers are off of Nichols' Dynojet as they are doing the service. They should be doing the cam timing today/tomorrow and then putting everything back together for some dyno tuing of the A/F mixture with the PC III (installed by previous owner) at the end of this week and/or early next week. It has a Karbacher air filter due to running CF air tubes, not sure how that is affecting the power. Might try a run with and without it if I feel like spending some more money over there

I'll post up the final dyno sheet and the specs everything was set to when that work is done.

Best regards,
Mike

 

Is that 124hp stock, just some timing/tuning? That's pretty strong.

 

It's not a real number, my 996 made like 127 on a factory dyno, and my old GSXR-750 made about the same number on a dynojet - both are much stronger than a stockish SPS, and the 996 is quite noticeably stronger than the 750 when it's running well with a fresh vertical head gasket. What really matters on any dyno is differences, what the curves look like at the end of the day compared with where they started, and what they look like compared with other bikes measured on the same dyno. If a bunch of SPS's make 117-125 and you see 124, you're doing pretty good.

 

It is a stock 1998 916 SPS with the 50mm full Termi system that came from the factory with these bikes. The only thing it has is a PC III with some seat of the pants non-dyno tuning by the previous owner and the aforementioned Karbacher air filter.

There are 4 or 5 SPS's (916/996) over at Nichols right now and they have quite an extensive dyno log of SPS's as well. They see anywhere from 117 to 125 hp in stock form on these (SAE corrected).

I was very happy to see the bike making this level of power and to see all the internals being in great shape. I might lose a touch at the top end even with the cam timing beign redone as we are going to fatten it up at full throttle just a bit to play things safe with the motor. I do expect some definite improvement in the <9000 rpm range with the cam timing and tuning.

Brad the bike boy has some dyno sheets posted on his site showing 123 - 124 hp on the SPS he dyno'ed, they also demonstrate the improvements to be had from cam timing these engines. BikeBoy.org - Ducati 916/996 SPS

Best regards,
Mike

 

Jeff I couldn't agree more about the difference before and after. Mine made 115 stock and 127 after the piston and tuning work. I haven't done anything to the heads which I'd like to but am hesitant. I know that is where the power is but I'd rather invest in the suspension first.