For beginner on track days...I'm looking for 916/996/998/999/1098/848.
What do you mean, which is the best choice ?
Thanks !
What do you mean, which is the best choice ?
Thanks !
Hyper Jack
Which Ducati Superbike for track beginner ?
i've been fantasing about the same thing, if you can wait until next year when the new model comes out there should be some sweet deals to be had on pre loved 1198's, otherwise put a wtb track 1098 in the for sale section
keep us posted on what you decide and post up some pics when you get it. good luck in your quest
keep us posted on what you decide and post up some pics when you get it. good luck in your quest
Beginner?
Probably an older GSX-R or equivelent?
Will saves you the stress on the thought of crashing, and a lot of money if you do.
Probably an older GSX-R or equivelent?
Will saves you the stress on the thought of crashing, and a lot of money if you do.
+1 to an SV or other.
749/999 are great bikes on the track IF setup properly. As a new trackday rider, the chassis package will most likely be transparent to you. As you get quicker and start pushing the bike a bit, a standard, unmolested xx9 will start to show it's handling limitations.
It doesn't take a lot to fix it... proper springs/valving for your weight does wonders. To really get the bike handling beautifully requires setting up the chassis with 27mm-30mm offset triples. As I understand, the xx98's, in stock trim, leave something to be desired as well.
In any case, do be afraid to check your ego and go with a smaller displacement model... 748/749/848/SV650/ex250/etc. You will learn alot more about getting around a track on a slow bike than one that scares the shit out of you. This is why I've stuck to 749's
749/999 are great bikes on the track IF setup properly. As a new trackday rider, the chassis package will most likely be transparent to you. As you get quicker and start pushing the bike a bit, a standard, unmolested xx9 will start to show it's handling limitations.
It doesn't take a lot to fix it... proper springs/valving for your weight does wonders. To really get the bike handling beautifully requires setting up the chassis with 27mm-30mm offset triples. As I understand, the xx98's, in stock trim, leave something to be desired as well.
In any case, do be afraid to check your ego and go with a smaller displacement model... 748/749/848/SV650/ex250/etc. You will learn alot more about getting around a track on a slow bike than one that scares the shit out of you. This is why I've stuck to 749's
It can be done. My first track bike was my 749s. Just don't ride over your head and you'll be ok. Any bike is gonna require work ($) to work well at the track. Some more than others. Get the bike you want, some good gear then don't let your ambition outweigh your talent and have fun.
It all depends on your budget.
My suggestion is to find an already-built track machine and wether it be a 748/916 series or a 749/999 series, (the later being the best bet price vs performance). When you get into the 848/1098/1198, the price skyrockets and your not buying anything but bragging rites. Yea, yea, the newer bikes handle better... yea, yea they're also more reliable. But honestly, with a track machine, the key is to buy something that is easy to fix, maintain and likewise cheap to purchase.
So, my recommendation, having crashed all 3 styles of superbike and having tracked/raced all three, I can say without a doubt in my mind, the 2005/2006 749S is the way to roll, for many reasons. First off, the 749/999 in track form, is the easiest testastretta powered superbike to maintain hands down. There are a lot of already made 749S track bikes on the market for sale on any given day. With some minor work, they're pretty crash resistant, which is HUGE. Plus, parts are super easy to get a hold of and the bloody thing is reliable. It has a captured tapered collet system, which helps keep the valves from falling out of spec. It has that nice double sided swing arm, which is actually a blessing when it comes to a race bike due to its ease of mating up to cheap rear stands.
Older 748/916/996 are a hassle to deal with maintenance wise, I wouldn't recommend one for the track if it were the only Ducati on the market! Been there, got the receipts to prove how much it cost to maintain and its UGLY!
Buy a bike that you can get on, ride and not worry about. The 749S is just that, plain and simple.
My suggestion is to find an already-built track machine and wether it be a 748/916 series or a 749/999 series, (the later being the best bet price vs performance). When you get into the 848/1098/1198, the price skyrockets and your not buying anything but bragging rites. Yea, yea, the newer bikes handle better... yea, yea they're also more reliable. But honestly, with a track machine, the key is to buy something that is easy to fix, maintain and likewise cheap to purchase.
So, my recommendation, having crashed all 3 styles of superbike and having tracked/raced all three, I can say without a doubt in my mind, the 2005/2006 749S is the way to roll, for many reasons. First off, the 749/999 in track form, is the easiest testastretta powered superbike to maintain hands down. There are a lot of already made 749S track bikes on the market for sale on any given day. With some minor work, they're pretty crash resistant, which is HUGE. Plus, parts are super easy to get a hold of and the bloody thing is reliable. It has a captured tapered collet system, which helps keep the valves from falling out of spec. It has that nice double sided swing arm, which is actually a blessing when it comes to a race bike due to its ease of mating up to cheap rear stands.
Older 748/916/996 are a hassle to deal with maintenance wise, I wouldn't recommend one for the track if it were the only Ducati on the market! Been there, got the receipts to prove how much it cost to maintain and its UGLY!
Buy a bike that you can get on, ride and not worry about. The 749S is just that, plain and simple.
Thank you all for the comments !
The first and important thing is...I want to ride a Duc and no other motorcycle... I know that japan bikes are great and I don't hate them, but Ducati is Ducati ...and I haven't forgotten that more important then the bike are training, school, books...
I look in way for 749/999 as many of you recommended. Here in Europe you find them practically for the same price, they go about 5000-7000 Euros (7000-10000 usd), stock version and then it takes me some money for track build of course...
In these days I have an offer for a 999 (stock), year 2003, a bike in excellent condition, for a good price, known history...I don't know what to do, I haven't decided yet...
The first and important thing is...I want to ride a Duc and no other motorcycle... I know that japan bikes are great and I don't hate them, but Ducati is Ducati
...and I haven't forgotten that more important then the bike are training, school, books... I look in way for 749/999 as many of you recommended. Here in Europe you find them practically for the same price, they go about 5000-7000 Euros (7000-10000 usd), stock version and then it takes me some money for track build of course...
In these days I have an offer for a 999 (stock), year 2003, a bike in excellent condition, for a good price, known history...I don't know what to do, I haven't decided yet...
Any 749 would be a great bike to start on for several reasons:
1) Cost. Find an '03 749 for cheap and convert it.
2) Ease. Very easy bike to set up out of the bike, fits most and is very versatile to ride.
3) Maintenance: Testastretta motor = less work compared to the desmoquattro.
4) Parts proliferation: they are out there for cheap!
5) Safe: Won't get away from you like a liter bike can. Good on the tires, especially driving out of corners.
6) Ever thought of using a Supersport? Cheaper, easier, bulletproof. You have an S2R 1000DS already, so you know the engine characteristics. Not a bad way to go. I'm just sayin'.
1) Cost. Find an '03 749 for cheap and convert it.
2) Ease. Very easy bike to set up out of the bike, fits most and is very versatile to ride.
3) Maintenance: Testastretta motor = less work compared to the desmoquattro.
4) Parts proliferation: they are out there for cheap!
5) Safe: Won't get away from you like a liter bike can. Good on the tires, especially driving out of corners.
6) Ever thought of using a Supersport? Cheaper, easier, bulletproof. You have an S2R 1000DS already, so you know the engine characteristics. Not a bad way to go. I'm just sayin'.
A mate of mine once told me, standing in the pits at Oschersleben:
"The 749 is the reincarnation of boredom".
I had a good laugh at it.
I´d take the 03 999, it´s a really cool bike and has just enough power. If you uncork it it will make 130 engine HP. The forks are good, if you outride the Showa rear shock upgrade to an Öhlins unit for 350€. There is absolutely nothing an 03 999 lacks for a track day starter. If you can ride that beast it´s capable of some very fast laptimes.
If you need more power, you only have to invest in a set of 999S cams, which will produce about 145 engine HP. Good mod. Until you can tame 145 HP reliably, you will probably have many many trackdays under your belt.
Go get the 999, don´t fool around.
If you have the cash, get an S. It has Öhlins front and rear and the hot cams, the latter two items you will buy anyway.
I like the 2v approach that 1fast750ss mentioned, but you got to have your mind set on racing a 2v. It took me 4 years to get my head around the fact that it´s all about the fun and not the laptimes. Anyway I´m getting carried away...
"The 749 is the reincarnation of boredom".
I had a good laugh at it.
I´d take the 03 999, it´s a really cool bike and has just enough power. If you uncork it it will make 130 engine HP. The forks are good, if you outride the Showa rear shock upgrade to an Öhlins unit for 350€. There is absolutely nothing an 03 999 lacks for a track day starter. If you can ride that beast it´s capable of some very fast laptimes.
If you need more power, you only have to invest in a set of 999S cams, which will produce about 145 engine HP. Good mod. Until you can tame 145 HP reliably, you will probably have many many trackdays under your belt.
Go get the 999, don´t fool around.
If you have the cash, get an S. It has Öhlins front and rear and the hot cams, the latter two items you will buy anyway.
I like the 2v approach that 1fast750ss mentioned, but you got to have your mind set on racing a 2v. It took me 4 years to get my head around the fact that it´s all about the fun and not the laptimes. Anyway I´m getting carried away...
748, 916, 996 ...parts are plentifull and they are still a great trackbike although 749's are getting cheaper too.
I believe that with the Desmoquattro, everything goes and stops with the type of maintenance your local Ducati wrench or you yourself is/are carrying out.
They don´t like to be neglected. It´s slightly better with the 998 engines. But you have to treat the whole bike very well if you don´t want it to give you a headache.
Keep in mind any 998 will be 7-9 years old now, the 996R would be 10 years of age. That´s a lot for a bike to be tracked.
They don´t like to be neglected. It´s slightly better with the 998 engines. But you have to treat the whole bike very well if you don´t want it to give you a headache.
Keep in mind any 998 will be 7-9 years old now, the 996R would be 10 years of age. That´s a lot for a bike to be tracked.
What bike for a beginner? I think a beginner should go with a 1098R with all the extras. Reason? Limited riding skills mean you are gona lose big time in corners so the only way to keep up with better riders is to have more power and torque. Therefore go with the most powerfull one you can find
For a beginning track rider, yes the 749/999 is the way to go. BUT find something with the standard valve retention collets. Later model "S" and all "R" bikes had the interference retention system. It is a more secure system but lots more hassle and cost added to valve adjustments. Then don't worry about getting to fancy with mods to the bike. Buy the bike, service it, drop on a set of track plastic and set the stock suspension for your weight then ride the damn thing. Everything else will come with time and as you gain experience you'll decide what you want/need, including tweaks to the suspension settings to suit your riding style, which will evolve over time as well. Good luck!
Did it not occur to anyone that perhaps a Monster S2R1000 is a perfectly fine bike for trackdays, and there's really no need to worry about weight, collets, horsepower, R and S models, and other misc. distractions?
My first trackday bike.
My first trackday bike.
Attachments
For the OP a serious post this time. I advice you not to get the bike from US, unless you have someone there who can pick it up and bring it to you with low cost. It's such an hazzle to find the bike at first, then someone should see it and judge it's condition, then you need to get it transported to Europe and even then it's not at your home porch(well maybe if it's UPS etc it is, but that will cost dearly). What seemed like a bargain first will bite you back big time.
Get the bike from Germany or Italy. Plenty of bikes to choose from and not that bad prices either. Weak dollar makes US bikes attractive, but the less hazzle the better.
Get the bike from Germany or Italy. Plenty of bikes to choose from and not that bad prices either. Weak dollar makes US bikes attractive, but the less hazzle the better.
Yep!
If you want to shop for a German bike, feel free to use my forum:
Suche und Tausche - Ducati1.de - das Ducati Forum
If you want to shop for a German bike, feel free to use my forum:
Suche und Tausche - Ducati1.de - das Ducati Forum
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