What are you doing with it? what are you going to put the loctite on?

 

The 510 is for the clutch basket bolts.

I want to know if it is good to have other type that suits other bolts.....

Pedro

 

Loctite 510 is a gasket maker, not a thread locker.

You want 246 (I think)...the Blue stuff. A threadlocker.

 

The workshop manual and also the instructions of the Bucci slipper clutch call for the Loctite 510.

http://www.mad-ducati.com/Technical/BucciSlipperClutch/BUCCI slipper clutch fit 3.jpg

Pedro

 

That must be a typo. 510 is gasket maker. Or else loctite has changed their numbers.

I would use normal red loctite (272).

Tom

 

It seems a little strange both ducati and bucci get the type wrong....

Isn't the 272 extreme? It's a high force threadlocker for M25 bolts....

 

sn't the 272 extreme? It's a high force threadlocker for M25 bolts....

M8+, that's how I've always used it.

Tom

 

I think the manuals call for 510 because there is oil behind the bolts, and 510 is primarily a flange sealant/gasket maker (with good high temperature, vibration and oil resistance properties). I found the 510 difficult to source and expensive, but I bought some anyway for this application. That being said, I have seen aftermarket basket instructions call for regular loctite, and I'm reasonably sure that 85% of folks go that route....

BK

 

You want a thread sealant for those screws, not a thread locker. My Ducati shop manual calls for a thread sealant on those screws. Loctite 510 might work but I'd go with 542. The 500 series is for sealing threads, the 200 series is for locking threads. Some products work well for both applications but on the clutch basket screws you want to seal the threads so that crankcase oil doesn't get into the dry clutch area.

Search here.

 

and just for clarity, isnt 242 the Blue, not 246?

 

ST4R,

Why do you think is better the 542, the 510 has a better performance at high temps, It seems better for the clutch basket bolts.

Pedro

 

Just did my clutch

I just did a complete clutch replacement with new basket, plates and pressure plate. I used the red 272 with good results. Make sure you buy new clutch basket bolts and get the torque specs right. You should be good to go.

Good Luck,

 

Bolts

What type of bolts to use? Stainless steel or the normal steel bolts.

 

When I read that the 510 was difficult to find - I posted that 542 would be good. But if you find 510 then go with it. If you're looking to buy some thread sealer and thread locker, you probably should keep a bottle of "red" high strength and a bottle of "blue" medium strength thread lockers in the tool box, along with this 510 for the occasional thread sealer application. Here in the States you'll find thread locker sold by several different makers, and labeled as "high strength red" and "medium strength blue". Green is also available, and is sold as "green thin thread locker for existing joints". Green is very low viscosity and should wick into a joint which is already tightened. I don't care for green or the idea of using it on already-tightened joints.

I use blue most of the time, and use red only when I absolutely need maximum strength. Red high strength thread lockers make it tough to take the joint apart - and you will someday need to take something apart. Blue is the one I use most of the time, along with a clean fastener and a good torque wrench.

As far as the screw material - stainless is usually weaker than carbon steel screws. Titanium screws would be even weaker than the stock carbon steel screws and should not be used where strength is important. Stick with the stock screw, if I remember it's a grade 8 or higher which is a very strong carbon steel screw.

I reused the stock screws but first I carefully cleaned off the threads with a wire wheel on a bench grinder. For good results the threads need to be shiny clean and dry.

 

For those strength of Materials freaks like me, Just for reference, the class (and stregnth) of metric carbon steel bolts can be easily id'd as follows: if a bolt head had 8.8 marked on it, it means it has an ultimate (failure point) strength of 800MPa and an yeild (strength at which is plastically deforms) strength of 80% of 800.

Similary and 12.9 bolt has 1200Mpa and a yeild strength of 90% of 1200MPa.

In my opinion 8.8 bolts are very good overall because they have high strength and a good margin for overload, that is, if you overload, you've got 20% to play with before games over and the thing breaks, unlike for instance carbon fibre. Where carbon is extremely strong and stiff, but it fails at ultimate strength without any plastic deformation and hence NO warning.

Carbon steels over about 1000Mpa also require baking after zinc plating to drive out hydrogen gas from the plating process (hence they cost alot more) If you dont bake post plating you risk hydrogen induced cracking without warning.

Also for reference there are shit loads of diferent loctite types. "red" does not necesarily mean high strength and blue does not nesesarily mean meadium strength. For instance, this is my collection from memory (i think) without reference to data sheets (I could be wrong on a few):

221 red, low strength thread adhesive for small screws
222 purple, low strength thread adhesive/sealer for small screws
242 blue, medium strength thread adhesice for bolts
270 green, high strength medium temp adhesive for small bolts
271 red, high strength thread adhesive for bolts to 1" dia.
601 gree, dont know yet! I just got this from work because out of shelf life (as all my collection is)
648 green, high strength retaining compound for press fit assemblies
690 green, medium strength adhesive for wick in of assembled joints.

and of course there are a gazillion others. If I can convince our company to use 510 I'll have some of that too, but for my clutch bolts I used 270 if I remember.

Are you sure that these bolts tap directly into a oil flooded area? Ive no leaks into my clutch basket. I was sure the clutch drive hub was sealed by an oil gasket ring on the shaft?

 

For those strength of Materials freaks like me, Just for reference, the class (and stregnth) of metric carbon steel bolts can be easily id'd as follows: if a bolt head had 8.8 marked on it, it means it has an ultimate (failure point) strength of 800MPa and an yeild (strength at which is plastically deforms) strength of 80% of 800.

Similary and 12.9 bolt has 1200Mpa and a yeild strength of 90% of 1200MPa.

In my opinion 8.8 bolts are very good overall because they have high strength and a good margin for overload, that is, if you overload, you've got 20% to play with before games over and the thing breaks, unlike for instance carbon fibre. Where carbon is extremely strong and stiff, but it fails at ultimate strength without any plastic deformation and hence NO warning.

Carbon steels over about 1000Mpa also require baking after zinc plating to drive out hydrogen gas from the plating process (hence they cost alot more) If you dont bake post plating you risk hydrogen induced cracking without warning.

Grade 12.9 is usually readily available in socket head style screws. These have a black oxide finish, so they will rust if not protected. Sometimes it's hard to tell the grade of a fastener because it doesn't have any marking on it. I just bought some button head screws in grade 10.9 and they have no marking. I thought that no marking meant that the screw was the lowest grade, but that's not apparently the case.

 

+1 JWsparkes

There are also the AN/NAS bolts for those racers who need even better than the high grade inch bolts. These are "aircraft" grade bolts used on pretty much everything that has wings, including cars in profesional series.

I personally have used AN/NAS hardware exclusivly on Dallaras and Panoz in the IRL, and for good reason. They cost more, but are worth the added promise of quality.

Also, a read above about cleaning threads on a wire wheel.... Be very carefull not to remove much metal, if you do, you increase the chances of stripping the tread on install, or worse: Failure in use. FYI, I use "blue" from about M5-M10, and "red" above that. The number in the thread locker line is the number of inch-lbs to break the lock. In some cases, its best to use a sealer because of vibration. In the clutch, that might be the reason, if in fact those holes dont go into the oil filled areas.

 

Do those AN fasteners come in metric sizes? I have not looked.

I just use a paper towel and a fingernail to clean the threads of a used screw.

I only use threadlocker when a steel screw is threading into a steel part, so not very much on a Ducati. I have had very good luck with the Schnorr ribbed safety washers. What I have found is that the torque required to break the fastener free after it's been torqued is pretty high and makes a nice "pink" sound when it does come free.

 

Anyone know a good source of the 510?

Ebay... local auto store... nada...

I might add... reasonably pirced...

 

I have been using Ducati ThreeBond for the bolts you speak of. I just clean the thread, apply a little and install the bolt. It works fine haven't had any issues at all in a few years.

 

I'm sure the three bond would work, but I found some for $20 a tube...

http://www.waresdirect.com/products/Commercial-Products/LOCTITE/Gasketing-228699?trackURL=nextag

 

I found the 510 in the importer.

The three bond will do the job.

 

I've used Loctite 500 series sealants for many years. They will seal joints with up to .020" gaps. I routinely build vintage British bike engines with 515, using no gaskets, and they don't leak a drop. It also works as a mild threadlocker. Wonderful stuff.

I'd be a bit leery about using 271 on smaller fasteners because of the bond strength. It's easy to damage threads or even twist the fastener off if removal is attempted without the use of heat. The clutch basket application is for sealing, and not for bolt retention.

Loctite products are commonly sold by bearing supply firms.

 

I've used Loctite 500 series sealants for many years. They will seal joints with up to .020" gaps. I routinely build vintage British bike engines with 515, using no gaskets, and they don't leak a drop. .. <snip>.

You know, of course, that the bikes are no longer authentic!!! British bikes... NO LEAKS??? You might as well use Bosch electronics too! If a British bike doesn't leak, it has no soul.

 

When I removed my clutch basket bolts, they definately had some type of sealer on them. It was grey and elastic so I really had no doubt it was Threebond. I've used TB to seal my magnesium clutch case and cam covers and they have yet to leak. Even the original TB that Ducati used to seal the engine cases and cylinders is still rubbery.