Punch,

Thanks for the extensive writeup, I didn't have the patience to do it!! I've been reading a lot of your posts when researching mapping and our dukes in general and I'm glad that you picked up on my thread. So here's my contribution...

First off for anyone ordering cables you MUST be careful to get the cable with the right chip in it as it can be a little confusing. I bought the wrong cable at first and it did not work.

WRONG CABLE
New ELM327 ODB 2 OBDII USB Diagnostic Scan Test Tool Car Failure Detection Cable | eBay

RIGHT CABLE
VAG-COM KKL 409.1 OBD2 USB Cable. For some reason the Amazon link does not work.


CONNECTOR
New Elandpower OBD OBD2 16 Pin Connector Diagnostic Adapter for Fiat 3 Pin | eBay

GUZZI DIAG
IMPORTANT, don't use the USB software that comes with the cable but follow the instructions from the link that Punch posted above.

I am using the Moto Guzzi "V11 Sport Scura" model in my Guzzi Diag Preferences which equates to "IAW 15M PF3C" although I've experimented with other "15M" choices which have the "PF10" TPS without any problems connecting. No difference in the TPS readings either.

I've had no problem reading and writing to the ECU. Caveat - I tried changing and reading back just one value on the fuel map to see if it worked.

TUNERPRO
I got one good XDF file that worked from the TunerPro website. I found a couple elsewhere that garbled all the info. I'll mail the XDF and my BIN file (which I'm 99% certain is OEM) to Punch to post them as I can't do it here.


Lastly I posted a link earlier to a superb explanation of fuel maps that are exactly as shown in Tunerpro.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/57-supersport/368913-best-explanation-supersport-fuel-maps-ive-ever-read.html

Looking forward to the discussion!!

 

Thanks for the extensive writeup, I didn't have the patience to do it!!

You started it!

I'll mail the XDF and my BIN file (which I'm 99% certain is OEM) to Richard to post them as I can't do it here.

Looking forward to the discussion!!

Thanks and me too.

 

desmoreddy has emailed the files and here are the links - very small files

The XDF - save to a sensible folder.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16291504/Guzzidiag/15M_428_00_GuzziDiag_V2.28.xdf

The BIN file - save to a sensible folder.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16291504/Guzzidiag/original.bin

Open Tuner Pro, then click on XDF and select the file you downloaded.

Then click on File, then open BIN to use the BIN file you downloaded.

As an example, double click on Fuel Map Left Cylinder (base) which on a Duc is the horizontal cylinder and you will see the fuel map, arse about IMO.
So click on Tools, Preferences and select Reverse column.

You can then click on View, Show Graph. Again I think this is arse about. Not sure how yet, but you can rotate the graph. When you do this you will see the mapped in dip around 3,000 rpm.

To edit fuelling at any point, click on the cell in the table and then use plus or minus numbers in the "Value" cell then click "Execute" to make the change.

After frigging around you save the BIN file with a name that suits you. Then assuming you have the cables you can write the new BIN to the ECU.

Richard

 

Wish I had cheap access to a dyno to mess with fuel mapping!

 

It is called a butt dyno and it is with you all the time!

If you use the software etc. we have posted so far, you can look at a 3D graph of injection mapping.

If you hold down the control key and the left mouse button you can rotate the graph and you will see where there is a significant dip that you can smooth out to get rid of the lean(er) spots.

Doing this is going richer, which will not harm the engine. If you do not like it you can go back to stock or play with it a bit more.

You can also invest in the Innovate Motorsport LC1 wideband oxygen sensor and AFR gauge to watch what is happening when you ride.

I have not looked, but there may be an option to log this or more upmarket Innovate products as well as other data if you fork out for the paid version of Tuner Pro.

 

The range from 3300 to 5000 rpm has a significant dip in the fuel delivery. I guess they do it for fuel economy as one would typically be cruising in that range. It would be interesting to use the "multiply" tool to adjust that entire range across the board by say 5% and see what that does for the rideability.

 

Rather good timing. I've just come in from testing my 900SS with a 99ie motor that has a home made map. I down loaded it from the bike using Guzzidiag's IAW15xREADER_V0.67. I modified it using using Tuner Pro (donate some money you cheap buggers!). I used Guzzidiag's XDF file ( 15M_428_00GuzziDiag_V2.28.xdf ) which works for my 99 motor. I loaded it into the ECU using IAW15xWriter_V0.25. I added the fueling around the 3500 - 5000 area and weakened a little around 7000. This is meant for a standard bike.

 

How is it running? Do you notice any difference?

I agree on the donation suggestion - will do that now!!

 

You will need to rename the file and delete the .pdf bit. This map is approximate so if you use it, it's at your own risk blah blah, you are all big boys and girls.

 

You guys could have saved me alot of time had you posted this a year ago

You guys have to be careful as Guzzi maps are differnt Ducati maps. Also the bins you are downloading and uploading are the complete OS and RAM for the ECU. If an upload fails you can possibly "Brick" your ECU.

Don't bother trying to make your own cables, I tried... the ECU really needs to be fed 12v. The VAG-COM and OBD2 Fiat 3 pin adaptor is the right way to go. Eventhough the processor in the ECU runs on 5V you are not connecting driectly to the processor.

Interesting trivia on the ECU it's realys work by pulling down "grounding" the circuit. The first SS ECUs would sometimes fail because the internal ground was insufficient...

Big thanks for all the people working on Guzzidiag and Tunerpro
aswell the contibuters who are providing us with the defintion files

Gray

 

Also the bins you are downloading and uploading are the complete OS and RAM for the ECU.

Gray,

I'm not sure what you mean by the above.

From what I can see in Tunerpro and also based on the size of the file it is only transferring the data back and forth. I imagine that the OS is hard coded into the EEPROM and modifying that would require a software update function. In fact even the Definition files that provide the framework for the maps are marked as Read Only in Tunerpro.

Although I wouldn't discount that an ECU could get bricked with a partial or corrupted transfer.

 

Transformed the bike bellow 4000rpm, it's now almost as good as it was before I fitted the noisy pipes, the original RH cracked and broke in two. Pretty much what I was expecting.I'm working on one that works better with the new pipe throughout the range.

 

This is a good description of fuel map zones for the higher revving 748, but the same principles apply. Click on the map link so you can see that in a separate tab. The colours described are open to interpretation, so x check the TP and RPM the refer to.

Sigma Performance - Weber Ultimap

Here is some more info on Weber injection systems - older than Brad's fine work, but you can never read too much if the subject is of interest.

Sigma Performance - Weber Fuel Injection

 

I presume the 5x is for the 59 (800 and 1000 models) but appreciate if someone could confirm or reject.

I can't confirm but I can reject. The 5x is only for the 5A ecus. MotoGuzzi never used the 59 so the author didn't add support for it.

 

Cheers - I should have spotted there was no XDF for the 59.

 

Ducati performance map data

I have been through Tuneboy and grabbed screenshots of everything that can be edited. I could not merge them into one PDF for some unknown reason.

At least with fuel, ignition and offset to rear cylinder, all the throttle and rpm breakpoints are the same.

The DP map is for open cans, like DP (Remus) and fairly sure it is for open air box as well.

If you have the stock ECU and open cans, this could be a good starting point until somebody grabs a BIN file from a DP ECU.

Note - this is 2001 where reportedly improvements were made to mapping at least on the stock ECU for stock cans.

IMO the important ones are fuel, offset and ignition.

 

Punch - dpyou have the DP tables for fuel and ignition unmodified and if you do could you please post them?

 

I only have the fuel map due to a software change that won't allow me to open the very original DAT file.

Fortunately I had a screen grab of the fuel from the distant past.

The ignition changes were minor and only a few points at high TP and high RPM. That was 2009 so pushing the memory.

 

OK punch here is a BIN file I made up using your PDF info overlayed onto a standard 99 bike BIN (A0 ECU). I'm hors d'combat just now as the doc has just removed a tumour from my head so I thought I'd get on with something useful. I've also synthesised a map from the Power Comander map for K&N filter, open airbox lid and Forza pipes. None of these have been tried yet. Oh and if anybody can't find the XDF it is on Guzzidiag under 'Old Quota',

 

Received the new cable and I now have connection. Loaded the ecu with the DP map and now My bike functions without a power commander. Thanks for the map serious black.

 

Once more delete the .PDF bit of the end of the downloaded files. The DP bin is quite interesting as the horitontal cylinder has been more extensively mapped and the ingnition has been modified to suit. When you compare the acceleration enrichment to the standard bike you see a pretty huge difference. I've read that the DP box runs rich and this is probably the cause. I plan to try a DP map modified with the standard acceleration enrichment to keep the fuel consumption something sensible. I may even try one with a hybrid acceleration map with, say, standard bellow half throttle and bellow 6000rpm and DP above. We'll see. first I have to recover.

Oh, and if anybody has a .BIN for the A8 ECU i would appreciate a copy to sate my curiosity as to the differences with the A0.

 

Well done - good way to keep yourself active after the op. Hope all is well.

Did you do any comparison of the DP and PC based fuelling and offset?

DP is supposed to be quite rich. I will find out when I pull my finger out and get to the dyno.

Richard

 

Power Commander ONLY does the fuel map, no ignition or offsets. My 900 has cutaway airbox, K&N and noisy pipes so the DP map should be theoretically closer. The modified standard map I posted earlier was a synthesised PC standard map and seems to work well but the bike feels it needs more at the top end.

 

PC - I knew the standard unit does not do ignition.

I thought with PC you could map other cylinder, but maybe that is later models.

I have never used one though, so not real knowledge.

 

I remember when the PC first hit the market in 98-99... The PC can only modify the signals comming into the ECU and works by tricking the air temp sensor into thinking it is much colder than it really is. You can do alot more by reprogramming the ECU.

2tirefire: What bike (ECU?) are you trying to connect to? Simple tip if you cannot connect with the guzzidiag you won't be able to download the BIN. Don't bother trying untill you can get it connected with the diag software.

Gray

 

I have received the cables that I ordered that you have listed. I'am having issues connecting to the ECU. I cannot read using the reader or connect using the Guzzidiag software. I have followed the instructions but when I try to read the ECU is saves the BIN file but the file has no information. Also a little confused on the drivers, do I let windows install the driver or use the drivers that came with the cable. I have tried both but with the same outcome.

Unfortunately I have two laptops that are both 64 bit as I have read that the odbII cable might not work with my win7 64 bit. Any Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nolan

 

Go to the FTDI website and download the right drivers. I haven't had any problem running it with Windows 8 64bit.

FTDI Drivers

Look in Device Manager to make sure that you do in fact have an FTDI chipset. I drove myself crazy trying to get the CH340 chipset to work without success.

 

I found that if I had the black crockodile clip connected to the battery -ve then there were no comms. If I connect the clip to the engine then it works. The cable that uses the FTDI driver is the one to go for. I'm still mucking around with the one that uses the CH340 driver to try and get it to play. Get GuzzDiag up and running first, if that works then the Reader and Writer should be fine. You cannot run both at the same time.

In the Preferances menu I selected the California Jackal and it talks fine to my A0 ECU. When downloading it takes about 15 minutes. You also have to turn everything on in the right order. From memory:

1. Boot PC
2. Put key in ingnition but DO NOT TURN ON.
3. Start Guzzidiag.
4. Look in the File me.nu under preferences and make sure you have a Com port number in the Com port box, if not you have no coms to the cable
5. Select 'Connect' in the File menu.
6. Guzzidiag will now tell you to turn on ignition - do so
7. If it works you should now see some ECU info in the box on the bottom left. Might take a couple of seconds.

My windows PC uses Win7 and works OK. I've just loaded Guzzidiag, IAW15Reader and IAW15Writer on my Linux laptop (Ubuntu 14.10). Guzzidiag and Reader work fine with the FTDI cable but not with the CH340. To be honest, once I read how to load it and make a link to execute it, actually getting it to work was easier than Windows. Not tried the writer yet.

 

Looks like I ordered the wrong 16 pin cable as it does not have a ftdi chip. From what I"m reading its a crap shoot if you get the right cable. Does anybody have a known good source for the correct cable?

The software keeps reporting the ignition is off.

1999 900ssie

 

Deciding the 9 pin dsub and rs232 was obsolete was not the smartest thing the PC industry ever did. It is still used with a lot of equipment and not having it on new laptops is a real pain.

 

An easy fix is to install Linux

I have Ubuntu 12.04 LTS installed on my Lenovo ideapad and use this to work on my bike. I run windows programs using Wine. It runs better than Windows XP. Only down side is the Linux serial port is limited to 11500 Baud and is about half the speed of the Windows serial port.

Gray

 

How did you gat the WINE pprograms to talk to the cable?

 

here from the GuzziDiag Website:

use the Linux version...

Linux hints:

The USB tty has 660 as rights per default.
So you need to change this, or use: sudo ./GuzziDiag_Vx.xx to start it.
You can also add yourself to the linux group dialout, than you are also allowed to use it.
A directory ~/.local/share has to be available. But that should be the case.

I gave him the feed back for this so it should be OK

I have DucatiDiag running in WINE.

It has been over a year since I got it up and running, I just rememberd what I had to do to get it up an running. You have to create a sybolic link to the actual device.

ln -s /dev/ttyUSB0 /home/your_user/.wine/dosdevices/com1

After that you will be able to connect to all USB devices in WINE using com1. (your_user is to be replaced with the user name you set up linux)
Linux has native support for serial over USB so you do not need to install drivers. If you need more help shoot me a pm.

Gray

 

Dyno run with original DP map

Rather than upload again, I have posted my latest (crap) results here. http://www.ducati.ms/forums/57-supersport/338825-my-900ssie-wot-dyno-loud-superb.html#post3890826

Basically the richer map has done stuff all and I need to work out why.

Fuelling needs sorting low down, but no change from 4,000 rpm = ??

Valves, rings, pipes etc. ????????

 

Good to know it works. I'm still grounded so I haven't been able to test it yet.

 

2tirefire - brilliant.
Serious Black - great work and hope you are back in the saddle soon.

It would be interesting to see dyno charts to compare with my recent results.