great post, how big is the volume increase in % now ?

 

Uhh, I dont know the original volume.
You dont want me to tape all the holes and fill it up with water, do you
And I haven't seen any specs on it.

 

Great report and pics, 22duke. Any chance of a ride report?

 

As soon as I get the PCIII (Backorder) I'll post both Dyno and a Butt report.

BTW: I grinded down the walls with a Dynafile. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=11711

 

Great report and pics, 22duke. Any chance of a butt dyno report?

 

Wouldnt it work if you got an k&n filter like the ones the old monster used but little bit smaller and cutting away the whole top af the box?

Are the engines gettign enoght air through that little whole?

Great post btw.

 

Well actually, I have had that thought. But the Monster Panel filters are way too big, and I cant find a correct size that will do the job on KN's site.
But yes it would the no. 1 choice. Although If you meassure the diameter, it's pretty big in size, compared to a panel filter. The hole should also do it, just look at them filters for 1098 models.

 

Hereby as promised

So what would happen if you added the correct size of one of these velocity stacks on top of your aluminum plate to smooth the airflow in to the air filter. You would have to cut down the height but every little bit helps.

I wish I could heli-arc aluminum!

http://www.velocity-of-sound.com/commerce/search/products/?product_id=VS39_56&merchant_id=2107

 

Nice work! If the results are good I'll give it a go before getting a new map for my PCIII.....

 

cheap K&N element* could be purchased with
one of these mh900e open-airbox and filter
kits on ebay germany.
something like 30 euros in total, air-box lid
is a stupidly ( factory... ) cut stock lid though.

:think:


*i have one of those in the basement, and could
come up with a picture and sizes if needed.

:think:

 

If you go here and put in your parameters, it will tell you what K&N filters fit:
http://www.knfilters.com/search/univ2.aspx?ID=S0005

The stock filter may be bigger but it does take up volume inside the airbox.

 

UPDATE

So now we have added nearly 1,2 liter more than the stock airbox. PLUS the internal airflow is much much better.

That's it and that's that

 

Lars.... Youre going for Dietrich's title as the wackiest modder on the forum are'nt you? - Cumon, admit it.

Great work mate. It's realy cool to see peeps like you and DeePee with kahoona's big enough to try this.

Really looking forward to hearing/seeing butt dyno and actual dyno reports of the change.

Greg.

 

Wackie'n'wackie, hmm maybe a bit But my Kahoona's aint yet big enough to going for Dietrich's title
I have just closed the box today, had to make sure all was nice and tight. I sealed it with this http://www.tunap.com/en/ranges/auto...s/p3040.html?searched=3040&highlight=ajaxSearch_highlight+ajaxSearch_highlight1 I'm sure you have some simular.

Well done mate, what other sneaky hiding places hold back the potential of these bikes. I was suspicious a long time ago ago when I asked my Ducati Rep why the GT sucked air so hard and all he said was "alterations to the air box will make the bike noisey".
I live in rural ******* country, none of us give a rats arse about EU or USA govt noise and emmision spec regulation. We are probably 10-15 years away from needing govt advise on those issues. So I will be hacking away soon as I can and if a neighbour asks why the Ducati has changed I'll tell them.

We have the strict Euro3 norm, but I'll guess every body here is also taking it "leaned back"
They have talked about the Bikes shall thru the aproval centers (Safety/Pollution) testing every 2nd. year like our cars shall

Very cool. Probably the intake is the main difference between the 1000DS motor in these bikes, and the same motor in the SS1000. With pipes and the normal (DP) airbox mod, plus fuel tuning, the SS always made about 90 hp, the SC only 85 or so. Of all the different pipes and fuel maps tried, the gap never really got closed. Has to be an intake issue.

Definitely YellowDuck. That's for sure the main reason.

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/my2006/...rst_id=924&second_id=929&modelName=SS1000DS-06&family=&part=comparison&x=34&y=9

 

Well done mate, what other sneaky hiding places hold back the potential of these bikes. I was suspicious a long time ago ago when I asked my Ducati Rep why the GT sucked air so hard and all he said was "alterations to the air box will make the bike noisey".
I live in rural ******* country, none of us give a rats arse about EU or USA govt noise and emmision spec regulation. We are probably 10-15 years away from needing govt advise on those issues. So I will be hacking away soon as I can and if a neighbour asks why the Ducati has changed I'll tell them.

 

Very cool. Probably the intake is the main difference between the 1000DS motor in these bikes, and the same motor in the SS1000. With pipes and the normal (DP) airbox mod, plus fuel tuning, the SS always made about 90 hp, the SC only 85 or so. Of all the different pipes and fuel maps tried, the gap never really got closed. Has to be an intake issue.

 

nice topic this one!!

thanks for the step-by-step information!

let us know if you feel any difference once you get it back on the road

 

Yes...top work...we are all looking forward to a road test. Fingers crossed for a positive result. A business opportunity for exchange air boxes perhaps ???

I want one already before the results!

Cheers Roger

 

Wonderful thread, thanks for posting. I think what you are doing is fantastic.


I have another idea about modding the air box; a different approach.
Hear me out:

I'd like to get my hands on a spare box to go to work on it and here's what I envision to do.

First open the box and chop the two internal air horns to get them more recessed into the box. Since it's all ABS plastic, you can probably cut them down with a dremel and reattach the flared tips to the shortened stack with ABS glue or a soldering iron. I've soldered ABS before and its pretty easy. plus you can use what you just removed as soldering material.

Next I would take the lid of the air box from a car and adapt it to the Ducati lid for improved surface filtration and more direct path of entry. This way you get to use one of these large, rectangular filters from a Toyota, Chevy, whatever...

Find a suitable air box and cut out the area surrounding the air cleaner element so you get the proper filter-to-air box mating surface. Next you figure out how to best seal it to the Duc air box and plastic solder or glue the thing on it.

I'm doing this in my head and I would love to see someone do it.

 

Fiddling with air horns, in daily speak called velocity Stackers, or more correct, intake funnels would be too much. This bike is not a 170-190 HP Crotch rocket, were you chasing the last drops of Dyno horses. But you could loose alot on this bike, if you just cut them down JUST to fit a panel filter. It would be like fumbling in the dark. It's not for fun the word velocity is in front of the word Stacker. They simply change the air velocity and "Correct the flow". Some bikes have long, other have short ones. The Yamaha R1 has Varible length. Long in the low's and short in the High Rpm scale.
Building a panel filter on top would be easy-peasy, you would get alot more intake noise~music depends on who are. But I'm not quite sure it would give more "Oomph" Try meassure the stock filter. It's quite big in area, if you compare it with a panel filter. And then try look at the filter Ducati 1098 is having. If that filter is big enough for the 1098, then I'm quite sure our stock size filter is big enough for our weak 92 hp aircooled engine. The other thing is the flow.
Turbulent flow is in general very messy right? This means there are swirls and eddies and what you have present in the flow. So imagine this, your No. 1 cylinder happens to get its air from a region of the flow that had high concentrations of fluid while your No. 2 cylinder gets it from a region of the flow that was very thin. Your fuel-to-air ratio in each case will be different and will have different power outputs. Neither case will be optimal and your overall efficiency will be lower. As a general rule, you always want laminar, "clean" flow"

Read about Bernoulli's equation Then you know, it's not so simple.

This might help.
It was done by Derrek in West Aus about 18mths ago.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=33177

Greg.

Greg, I didn't know you could mind reading. It was exactly this thread I have searched for :abduct:

 

This might help.
It was done by Derrek in West Aus about 18mths ago.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=33177

Greg.

 

1. cutting the velocity stacks ( air horns ) within
the box makes no sense, as the factory didn't
choose the stock intake tract lenght by guessing
but by experience/calculation i think/hope/believe.

check out "tuned intake tract length" at some
tuning books as a reference.

2. the classic australian approach is somewhat
different, by not cutting things from the inside,
and eventually reducing overall volume with that
huge K&N mounting plate ?

cheers.

 

After reading this I'm thinking it's better off leaving the frigging thing alone!

 

For your bikes safe, yes

 

I am defintiely not questioning your experience with airbox mods, but the 1L volume you're reportedly adding from the "secret room" isn't really added is it?

From your pictures it looks to me like that "secret room" is already open to the airbox's main chamber, even without your mods, via that small round hole on the right hand side, opposite the crankcase breather hose inlet.

The baffle thats in the secret room (small chamber), the wall between it and the airbox's main chamber, and the small hole connecting the 2 chambers look like they're there to trap oil... from the crankcase breather and prevent it enterring the airbox's main chamber.

So all the wall removal/secret room mod has done is remove the volume taken up by the wall and baffle (which is minimal), and eliminated the small hole joining the 2 chambers.

I'm not as expericened as you are airbox mods, so I'm not about to question your opinion on the value of this mod but this really hasn't added 1L of volume has it?

Is there really likely to be anything significant to be gained by eliminating the small hole between the two chambers? It's not like there'd be a lot of flow going through that hole is there?

Mario

 

add ram air?

After looking at this, my little bit of input may be to add ram air to this design, it is an accessory on the 1098 to enlarge the air intake tubes to get more air in there to increase HP, easy to add to this design hmmmm?

 

no

we are too slow to make any use of it i'm afraid.

 

Cold air induction

we are too slow to make any use of it i'm afraid.

After reading up on cold air induction I have a couple of IDEAS would like to share without getting too harsh on me as I am not an Engineer or Rocket Scientist.
quote: Any car can (motor) benefit from a Cold Air Induction. Cold air benifits your car by improving the temperature of the incoming air. It's very simple, (from the net.)
one would assume increased air flow as well,
first pic is a "ram air scoop added to the very nice design by 22 Duke,
second is fitting 2 K&N filters straight on to the existing stacks, third is a bit rad but it looks kinda mean using 40mm pipe straight into the front of the air box plenty of room on each side of the airbox and a 45 elbow then put a K&N on the end of it I haven't done any of these mods I'm just wondering if there would be any benefit in H.P. increase as this seems to be a hot topic.

 

i'd think it'd be worth cutting out the plastic at the bottom of the filter too - that'd double the entry area into the filter. these bikes really suffer from restricted airboxes, and even the box shown would have no more entry area than a std ss airbox lid i wouldn't think.

opening the top of the box effectively increases the airbox volume too - the underside of the tank would become the lid and altho there's a lot of leaks around the side and back of the airbox due to the gap to the tank, it's a case of it not being as bad more than it being good. you could always seal up some gaps too. and those big flat filters flow much more air than these engines could ever use so it's not really a restriction or end point i wouldn't think.

you'd need to be picking air up from the front of the bike to make the ram air thing work as such. the mod shown will reduce the amount of airbox vacuum due to allowing more air in, but trying to go from vacuum to zero airbox pressure is easier than going from zero to positive airbox pressure. you need quite a large opening area and clear air flow to make it worthwhile, and from memory it's fairly high speed before the pressure becomes significant. i think we calculated 250km/h or so when i was at uni, but that was a long time ago and possibly based on larger engines. remember at 8,000 rpm the thing is hopefully using 1 litre of air every 2 rotations, nearly 67 litres of air per second. just keeping up with that requires a lot of flow before you get enough air to build pressure.

 

more free air

i'd think it'd be worth cutting out the plastic at the bottom of the filter too - that'd double the entry area into the filter.

Now thats smart I knew somebody would find an easy fix to get more (filtered) air into that box if there is nothing under it I will be knocking a hole in the bottom to double the air hole volume, after removing the noise limiting thinggy on the top of the air box and running around for a few days you can sort of hear it breathing better, I got a dyno booked for Wednesday I will put a hole in the bottom and see if matey will do 2 runs with 1 taped up and one open,, that'll fc*k'em



you got admit this would look cool, heee heee

 

Mushi you are a wanker!

So you're an aerospace engineer huh and know intimately all about the effects of compressibilty on gas flows?

I AM an aerospace engineer and I perform design work with Military fighter jets everyday. F/A-18 previously and now Hawk 127.

Ram air compressibilty becomes significant as the speed of sound is approached. True, our machines do not travel upward of 300km/hr.

Regards, having a forward facing cold air collector into the airbox WILL provide more benefit that the stock inlet tract into the airbox.

Give the guy a break or we'll start critiquing your Frankenstein designs!

 

Bahahaaaaa.

That's funny.

 

Someone should do a search, but I am pretty sure somebody here already tried the business of drilling out the bottom of the box under the filter, and ended up putting it back the way it was.

 

Here it is. Dietrich, of course.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=36470&highlight=airbox+bottom

 

Ram air doesn't do much (1% or so at 100 MPH), but cold air does a lot: a difference in air temp of 30C (54F) will make a difference of 10% (provided that you are supplying enough fuel). Easily done in a car (I did it years ago to my Z28), perhaps not such a large temp difference in a bike.

Tom