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Discussion Starter #1
I finally got a chance to take my 05 999 with its newly installed 57 mm system for a serious highway/ backroads ride yesterday. The bike idles fine, has good low end power (3,000 - 5,500 rpm), and great high end power (7,500 - 11,000 rpm). I had previously noticed a flat spot from 5,500 - 7,500 but yesterday I realized that when holding a steady rpm at those speeds the bike surges badly. I realize that the 57mm system isn't going to help the midrange on my otherwise stock bike, but I don't think the surging that I am experiencing is normal - or is it. I didn't remove any of the fuel or vacuum lines when installing the exhaust, so there shouldn't be any issue there.
I did wrap the horizontal pipe leading from the front cylinder to help protect the fairing from the heat. Could the differencial heating/cooling lead to the surging? I doubt it.
Others have mentioned that they were unhappy with the ECU provided with these kits and added a Power Commander to improve the mixture. I'll go that route if I have to, but could something other than and improper fuel/air mixture be leading to this?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Surging is generally caused by a lean condition, which, if your ECU is stock with that pipe, your bike most certainly is.

Power Commander time.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I should have mentioned in my original message that it was the 57mm kit - exhaust, ECU and air filters.
 

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you shouldn't be satisfied with a surging bike... or a midrange hole. you can tune that out. throw a powercommander on that bike and tune it, or have someone else tune it.
oh, and wrapping the pipe won't cause surging, wrapping the pipe causes higher exhaust temps inside the pipes, which increases exhaust scavaging of the cylinders.
 

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Robert,

Make sure you watch the lower left fairing below the kickstand for burning. It is very common in this spot. I had it with mine. Still trying to work out the issue. I'll need to space out the fairing at the back left side. Can't have the pipes touching the fairing, heat shielding or not. You need air to move by the pipes in all areas. Mine hesitates a bit at 3500 to 4500 RPM. After that, goes like gangbusters....

What do you think of that sound!
 

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Robert -- put it on the dyno, and see what's going on, they may be able to make improvements without having to spend extra for the PC3, and you could be very happy with that ... but if you want it to run the best, PC3 is the way to go. Either way, let us know how it turns out for ya
 

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migz123 said:
Robert -- put it on the dyno, and see what's going on, they may be able to make improvements without having to spend extra for the PC3, and you could be very happy with that ... but if you want it to run the best, PC3 is the way to go. Either way, let us know how it turns out for ya
+1
 

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Discussion Starter #8
brianmdavis said:
Robert,

Make sure you watch the lower left fairing below the kickstand for burning. It is very common in this spot. I had it with mine. Still trying to work out the issue. I'll need to space out the fairing at the back left side. Can't have the pipes touching the fairing, heat shielding or not. You need air to move by the pipes in all areas. Mine hesitates a bit at 3500 to 4500 RPM. After that, goes like gangbusters....

What do you think of that sound!
Have you tried wrapping your pipe? I don't particularly like the wrapped look (sorry Galaxy) so I wrapped as little as possible - but it works and is only noticable when looking through the fairing hole by the kickstand. After a very hard run (albeit in quite cool ambient temperature) I could easily touch the wrapping.
In addition to wrapping the pipe I put heat resistant shielding on the inside of the fairing. To move the fairing out I simply installed the bracket clip backwards. I'm referring to the clip on the bracket that bolts to the lower left of the engine. I bent the clip a little so that in its new position it won't slip up or down. It isn't as solid as the stock set-up but it works. A friend of mine has access to a machine shop, so in the long run I think we will make another bracket that positions the fairing farther out while having the clip properly mounted. Another option is to keep the stock bracket and put a heat resistant rubber spacer between the wrapped pipe and the fairing.

The sound, oh the sound. That is the whole reason (other than a little less weight with the titanium canister) I put the system on. Now the bike sounds as it should.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Fox said:
you shouldn't be satisfied with a surging bike... or a midrange hole. you can tune that out. throw a powercommander on that bike and tune it, or have someone else tune it.
oh, and wrapping the pipe won't cause surging, wrapping the pipe causes higher exhaust temps inside the pipes, which increases exhaust scavaging of the cylinders.
I just thought it was an outside possibility that since only one pipe is wrapped that cylinders exhaust scavenging would be slightly different from that of the other cyliner. I didn't know if the tuning between the cylinders could then be different enough to make the bike run poorly...

Thanks for your input!
 

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that could be making the problem worse... but i don't think it would create it. one way to find out would be wrap the other cylinder's pipe. i know its exposed and wouldn't look as good, or strip the heat wrap off and use an adhesive heat shelding on the fairing. but like it was stated earlier... if the pipe touches the insultation, its not going to work.
interesting... you paid upwards of 3K i'm guessing for a full setup, and the ECU isn't working as it should? thats just terrible. Is there anyway to buy the exhaust by itself, and buy the filters and a PC3 (and some dyno time) seperately? I'm looking into a system for my bike, and i don't like the idea of overpaying for parts that don't work as they should.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Fox said:
interesting... you paid upwards of 3K i'm guessing for a full setup, and the ECU isn't working as it should? thats just terrible. Is there anyway to buy the exhaust by itself, and buy the filters and a PC3 (and some dyno time) seperately? I'm looking into a system for my bike, and i don't like the idea of overpaying for parts that don't work as they should.
You've got that right! That is why I am so surprised that even after getting the full kit it looks like I will have to add a PC3. Oh well, the one good thing about the ECU that I have now is that it raises the rev limit by 1,000 rpm. From what I have read the PC3 doesn't yet do that for the 999.
 

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Put it on a dyno

I had this system put on my 05 999R and had good results. It was suggested at the time that I put a power Comander on and have it remapped to smooth out the power delivery. The power was a little erattic, but nothing like you dicribe. Wanting maximum results, I later had the power comander on and picked up 5 more horses and the throttle is now a rheostat. The bike puts out 151 hp and I couldn't be happier with it. I have a question about the heat issue. How does carbon fiber stand up to the heat generally? I've kept an eye on the close clearances and have seen no burn spots. I've thought about the wraps too but so far, so good.
 

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carbon fiber is one of the better insulators around. if you have carbon fiber cans you could put your hand right on the can after running and it wouldn't burn you. you don't have anything to worry about with carbon fairings... if you notice, its used as heat shielding.
 

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Yeah Right!

About three or so months ago someone on Speedzilla had a shit fit because his 57mm Termi System burned a hole in his new C/F fairing! All due to his "Race" 57mm exhaust system! He was pissed that Ducati would design a pipe like this! He wanted Ducati/Dealer to replace the fairing. Of those involved with the discussion, 90% wanted to hang the guy while 10% offered to buy the poor fellow a cup of Java at Starbucks, while they forming a petition to remove Ducati's current CEO. Sheesh!


Carbon cans are a long ways away from their source of heat. Carbon is wonderful stuff! It's just that the resins that bond the fibers together have issues with heat. Also I've seen C/F cans catch fire and burn in race situations on the track because they weren't properly packed with insulation materials. The C/F bodywork might do fine in your case, but watch your painted surfaces, cause it will cook and peel off.

Just to CYA, head out to Home Depot and purchase some insulation cloth and line the fairing or safety wire the cloth to your pipe where it contacts the bodywork. Don't just rely on a Air Gap! Both would be perfect though!

As far as tuning your bike, I don't know of any Race kit or Race part where you bolt crap on and your good to go and win a world championship! Every bike has it's own specific fueling needs. For example! You can take two bikes of the same style and size off of the factory production line, attach PCIII's to them both, tune them, and end up with completely different fuel maps, for a number of different reasons.

So let's drop the, I paid three grand it should be perfect mentality. It just doesn't work that way here and in the real world. How and why do you think the Power Commander became so successful?

Lastly don't count on your dealer to make things better unless, they are the DucShop, Section8, BCM, or AMS. Most just won't take the time to get your bike setup right. These guys will dial in your cams, set the squish, as well as getting the fueling right. That's how you get serious HP out of your $3000.00 pipe. Other than this, you might as well go out and find some old baseball cards and some clothes pins so you can attach them to your bike so the card can flutter in the spokes and make that cool engine sound!
 

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Surging: A PC and new map will solve the problem.

Fairing/heat: The wrap and foil will help--but the spacing is the most important. I trimmed a 999 CF heat shield and mounted it with (2) 998 exhaust brackets. This pushed the fairing away and protected the fairing from any excess heat.
 
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