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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Did you guys see this

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Did you guys see this shit?! I just saw it on the NBC Nightly News. After a high-speed chase with police, the young Iraq veteran who was following the cop's orders, was shot point blank, for no apparent reason. Here's the story on CNN :http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/01/police.shooting/
 

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Sad for everyone involved.

Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Blink"? There's a chapter devoted to this very topic. Bottom line: High-speed chases are VERY stressful and in stressful situations even well-trained, very experienced people make horrible mistakes they would never make in "normal" circumstances. Not defending anyone here. But there are some great insights in that book.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I bet its stressful , but there was no danger shown in that video to warrant the officer to shoot once let alone 3 times.
 

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The act of participating in a high speed chase is pretty stressful all by itself. Then add to that the fact that so many of the people stopped today are armed - in some cases heavily armed - and very dangerous. Beyond that, there's no telling what happened to that particular officer in the hours, days or weeks before the incident. Fellow officer shot? Amost run over by the arrestee in a "routine" traffic stop?

Please read the book. It's fascinating. People get so confused in high-stress situations that the officer may have meant to say "Get down" instead of "Get up" and honestly believed that's what he actually said although the video proves otherwise. Stress can cause people to do some things that are almost inexplicable...

Doesn't make it right. Doesn't justify it one bit. But it may help you understand what happened.

Or maybe that cop was a bad apple who just couldn't wait to kill someone the first chance he got. We may never know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Your right , and all people must pay for their actions. The kid driving that was speeding and did'nt stop at first. This kid that was shot was the passemger so what charges will he get. The police officers should be evaluated more often due to the risks and stress they go through, and the money they make are pennies for putting their life on the line. That book probably is a good book maybe one day I pick a copy of it to read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Him and his family will never have to work again , he will get millions. I hope the DA gets him for attempted murder and everything else he deserves
 

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Unbelievable? Not any more. Raise your hand if you're surprised. You guys are right, only one person will ever really know in that situation, and he's not going to talk much, FBI interviewing or not. It is indeed a trajedy that this kind of thing continues to happen, almost on a regular basis, unfortunately; I among many others think it is only going to get worse before it gets better.

Hiring standards are going down due to the lack of applicants for Policing positions, thus letting in people that normally would'nt have been selected in the past. I see more younger kids going from High School, then Community College, usually a Criminal Justice AA (better known or as useful as Underwater Basketweaving), then Hired by a Police Dept. at the ripe age of 21 yo. Just enough to be dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, it's a tough job, however, this at first appearance looks to be a big fat can of worms for that Deputy and his respective department.

Not exactly the way I want to earn a dollar though (or a few million).


Brian C.
 

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MikeM said:
The act of participating in a high speed chase is pretty stressful all by itself. Then add to that the fact that so many of the people stopped today are armed - in some cases heavily armed - and very dangerous. Beyond that, there's no telling what happened to that particular officer in the hours, days or weeks before the incident. Fellow officer shot? Amost run over by the arrestee in a "routine" traffic stop?

Please read the book. It's fascinating. People get so confused in high-stress situations that the officer may have meant to say "Get down" instead of "Get up" and honestly believed that's what he actually said although the video proves otherwise. Stress can cause people to do some things that are almost inexplicable...

Doesn't make it right. Doesn't justify it one bit. But it may help you understand what happened.

Or maybe that cop was a bad apple who just couldn't wait to kill someone the first chance he got. We may never know.

Well put, end of story. Its frustrating when the cops get caught brutalizing someone, especially a dirtbag then get sued for millions and we, the public eventually get stuck with the bill. Bad police make bad laws, simple as that. Actions of one out of control cop creates repercusions nationwide. Don't they know by now there may be a video camera on nearby, ala Rodney King? That would be the first thought in my head, don't do anything stupid, its on tape. However, don't just sit there too, do something. I've seen enough tapes to convince me training is inadequate once panic takes over and dictates the situation. Control of panic is the key.
I'm really sick of these few out of control cops that make it bad for the rest of them, training has got to increase beyond what they are doing at the moment. Theres no excuse like they don't make enough money, etc. A patrol officer in Nor Cal retires now at around 85 to 100k a year.

First of all, I don't put for now the label of "dirtbag" on the unfortunate Airman involved in this. At any rate, one point that I believe will be brought up in the cop's defense was when the order to get up was announced, the victims hand movements will be crucial in why things went sideways. As he was obeying the order, did he move his hands towards his waistband? The swearing on the part of the cop is normal, swearing means business and gets people's attention. It doesn't look professional in the eyes of the lay public however. Lastly, I'm wondering if the order to get up was actually said by the deputies partner and as a result there was confusion. Not likely but in a charged situation it could happen. Another action on the part of the Deputy was the order for the victim to get up in the first place. This somehow does not make sense, the victim should have been flat out arms outstretched on the ground, not ordered to stand up. I don't think ordering him to get up is accepted protocol in felony stop situations. Having him on the ground with hands in plain view is safe. Theres no hurry, wait for a cover officer to assist in ultimately taking control of the victim/suspect. It seems the Deputy wanted to do it all by himself. He relinquished control once he ordered him to get up. In any case, the Deputy appeared panicked to me, just by his tone of voice. Glad the victim survived.
 

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you are right...why would he order the guy to stand up. After a chase no less...no way. Something ain't right, at first I was gonna say accidental but thats a tough call here after viewng the video. 16yrs on the hwys for me, chases are stressfull, you'll never know unless you've been there. But he looks WRONG here
 

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Okay, clearly I'm the immature one here, but was I the only one who chuckled over Sheriff "Penrod" who had a spokeswoman named "Beavers"? ;)
 

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I would not throw stones at the officer, just yet.

I feel strongly about people trashing law enforcement, hence the long post here.

Having been in an armed robbery shootout [where I emptied two 15 round clips], another where the ex-felon or myself had to decide who was going to put their gun down [him 357, me 45] and other violent chases/arrests [one where a guy tried to stab me with an ice pick], my opinion after looking at the video is that this Deputy freaked out under stress. The suspect must have made some movement that the officer misinterpreted as a threat.

It is very easy when in those confrontational situations for the suspect and/or the officer to freak out and lose control. Sometimes the slightest "wrong move" can make things go horribly bad.

Unfortunately, officers can go an entire career without ever having to make the decision to draw or shoot and it is that one time, such as this occasion, that we find out he or she cannot handle the situation.

From experience, I can tell you that when your well being [meaning life or death] is determined under the gun, so to speak, in a few or fractions of a second, things are not as easy as Hollywood makes it look.

And all of us analyzing the scene from the safety of our castle, well, it's easy to label and be hyper-critical. For example, the video depicts the suspect telling the officer that he is "on his side," but history is replete with examples where the bad guys lie to the police in order to escape or get the jump on the officer. Sure, it's easy for us, after the press has confirmed the victim was in fact in the military, that the officer at the scene should have believed the suspect.

But that kind of hindsight analysis is bullshit. It's as stupid as asking "why didn't the officer just shoot the gun out of the suspect's hand" when hearing stories about fatal shootouts. I can tell you from experience, when someone is shooting at you and you are shooting back, no one is taking the time to aim for a hand, even if that was possible under such conditions, such as a deserted, darkened parking lot.

I do think the officer is toast in terms of ever going on patrol again, at best it's a desk job for him, or working at the jail. And the biggest thing he will have to deal with is the shame and embarrassment as he faces his coworkers.

But I also think he is counting his blessings that he did not kill the man. That would have caused him to off himself or live with the guilt for the rest of his life.

Roto [the non-Watergate plumber guy]

P.s. Without knowing all that happened,

I suspect the officer's heart was pumping from having just concluded a chase with the driver.

The passenger who was shot looks middle eastern [although he was Hispanic]. So post-911, law enforcement is suspicious of anyone who looks middle eastern. This was after a chase, so the officer was not sure what he had.

Lastly, there have been a few officer fatalities up and down California lately. When an officer gets killed in the line of duty, officers up and down the state feel it and the killing sticks with them. Many officers get depressed.

When the officer killings happen, most departments also use the event in training, so to drill into officers heads that it is usually officer carelessness that got them killed. Departments use the killings as training tools, so other officers can learn from the killed officer's mistakes.

This officer, like many in California, are on heightened vigilance, especially since some of the officers recently killed were experienced law enforcement veterans.

So I can see all these factors contributing to the officer shooting his gun. Not everyone can keep their cool. Besides, many officers think that "keeping one's cool" or super cautious contributed to their fellow officers getting gunned down. Nowadays officers have to fear that every move they make will be possibly caught on video and they will be subject to armchair analyst review, so they had better not make the wrong decision, which has come to mean that which others would do, such as shooting the gun out of one's hand or using pepper spray.

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http://www.news10.net/storyfull2.aspx?storyid=15629

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Monday, January 9, 2006


A 14-hour manhunt ended Sunday where it began: in a gritty two-block section of East Palo Alto where a suspect shot a police officer, ran off, and then returned and fired at the downed officer to make sure he was dead, police said.


Alberto Alvarez, 23, of East Palo Alto, was found at about 6 a.m. Sunday, hiding in the back of a car whose driver attempted to pass a police checkpoint to leave an area that had been sealed off by police following the slaying of East Palo Alto police Officer Richard May, 38, on Saturday afternoon.

Police would not comment on whether the driver, who was not arrested, knew that the suspect was hiding in his vehicle.

"The coward responsible for this heinous act has been taken into custody," East Palo Alto Police Chief Ronald Davis said, fighting back tears, at a news conference Sunday near the crime scene.

Alvarez, whom police called a member of an East Palo Alto street gang, was booked on suspicion of murder and jailed in Redwood City. The two Pacifica police officers who arrested him were among 250 police from 25 agencies who joined the manhunt, blanketing the neighborhood with foot patrols, aerial surveillance, canine units and a SWAT team.

Alvarez was found with gunshot injuries to the legs. Police were unsure whether May had returned fire or whether Alvarez had accidentally shot himself.

San Mateo County Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Wagstaffe said Alvarez was on parole after serving 16 months behind bars for a drug and weapons crime. He had also originally been charged with gang membership, but that was dropped as part of a plea agreement, Wagstaffe said.

"This cuts to the very core of the safety of our community, and we as the prosecuting office will deal with it in the most severe manner," Wagstaffe said of May's killing.

Police and witnesses said that at about 4:30 p.m. Saturday, Alvarez was eating at the Villa Taqueria in the 2300 block of University Avenue when two other men entered. A fight broke out between Alvarez and one of the men, police and workers at the restaurant said.

"I just remember seeing the second man with his shirt off and pants almost completely down," said Irene Yanez, who was cooking in the back at the time. "His nose was bloody and he was practically naked with just his boxer shorts barely on. Then he and his friend got into a white car and left."

May, who had a 16-year-old police Explorer riding along for the day, responded to the call about a disturbance at the restaurant and saw Alvarez running away from the establishment, police said.

May followed him by car for less than a block and then got out on Weeks Street to confront him, police said.

Police say the two were already acquainted. A struggle began between May and Alvarez, and Alvarez shot May, who went down, police said.

Alvarez then ran into the gated walkway of an apartment complex but came back and fired again at May, who already lay on the ground, police said.

The teenage Explorer radioed in the call that an officer was shot and described the suspect, which police said helped them know who they were looking for.

Police said Alvarez is a member of East Palo Alto's long-standing Sacramento Street gang and was on parole for a drug and weapons charge.

May, a former Marine who joined the East Palo Alto Police Department 18 months ago, leaves behind a wife and three daughters.

During the news conference, Davis was joined by May's grieving family, who gathered at a podium holding portraits of him. Several other police officers spoke of the fallen officer.

"Officer May was not a rookie. He was ... somebody a lot of the younger officers looked up to for answers. He will not be forgotten," said Officer Brian Frayer, who broke down in tears.

Police said May was fired upon only a few months ago while assisting a tow truck driver who was hauling a drug dealer's car.

"But he continued the relentless pursuit of thugs to the very end," said Davis. "We will continue to live in his image and make this the safest community in the state. I know we will be successful because we now have an angel watching over our shoulders."

Several of May's relatives consoled each other as police extolled May's service.

"My brother's true love was to help those in need," said his sister, Tami McMillan. "I know he was the first person I called when I needed help."

The neighborhood around Sacramento Street is comprised of mostly Latino, African American and Polynesian families.

"It used to be a neighborhood where families came to get away from violence when my parents grew up here," said 25-year-old Kiyyah, who lives directly in front of the scene of Saturday's shooting. She asked that her surname be withheld. Kiyyah said she fell out of bed when she heard the shots Saturday afternoon, though the incident didn't surprise her. She said a close friend was killed a few blocks away a couple of years ago.




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http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-013006-jmn-officer_shot.52587183.html

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Man In Jail For Shooting An Officer

POSTED: 11:01 pm EST January 29, 2006


WATAUGA COUNTY, N.C. -- A Watauga County man will face a judge today after being arrested for shooting a sheriff's deputy.

Gary Powers fired close to twenty rounds from his home hitting deputy Wes Hawkins twice.

Officers from Avery County and the Highway Patrol were called in to assist.

Powers surrendered just after midnight.

Deputy Hawkins was responding to a news complaint near Powers home which is located on Bamboo Road near Boone.

His injuries were not life threatening.


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Feb 2, 2006:

A man who led officers on a 10-minute pursuit was shot and wounded today after he crashed into a pole and pulled a firearm on officers attempting to arrest him, authorities said. The pursuit began around 1:20 this morning on South Downey Road near Whittier Boulevard in East Los Angeles, said California Highway Patrol Officer Alex Gonzalez.

Officers attempted to stop the man for not wearing a seat belt, but he refused to pull over and led them on a chase that ended when the vehicle slammed into a wooden pole holding a sign on the southbound Santa Ana (5) Freeway near Slauson Avenue, said CHP Officer Armando Clemente.

Six officers surrounded the vehicle and ordered the man to surrender, but he "brandished a firearm and pointed it toward officers," Clemente said.

"The officers feared for their lives and shot the suspect several times," Clemente said. The wounded man was hospitalized in stable condition and was expected to survive, Clemente said.

The Slauson Avenue offramp from the southbound 5 Freeway was closed while authorities investigated the shooting, Gonzalez said.

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HUNTERSVILLE, N.C. -- One person was killed and another was critically injured when police officers shot them at a Huntersville shopping center Thursday.

The two people fired at officers first, according to Lt. Everett Clendenin of the North Carolina Highway Patrol.

The Highway Patrol was notified at about 1:50 p.m. that a blue Chevrolet Astro had been driving recklessly on Interstate 77 South, weaving across several lanes and causing other vehicles to swerve. The van then stopped on the side of the highway, apparently with a flat tire.

A truck driver stopped to help change the flat, and that's when he found out that the van's driver had a gun. The trucker called 911 as the van sped off.

Back on the interstate, the van was spotted by a state trooper. The trooper, backed up by Huntersville police officers, followed it to exit 23 and the Rosedale Commons shopping center on Gilead Road.



The van's two occupants exited the vehicle and began firing at officers, according to Lt. Everett Clendenin of the North Carolina Highway Patrol. (Photo courtesy of AirStar 6)
“The vehicle came into the shopping center here and basically got cornered up into the parking lot area,” said Capt. Michael Kee of the Huntersville Police Department. "Our officers came in from the front of the vehicle. The trooper and I believe one of our other officers were behind it."


The van's two occupants -- a male driver and a female passenger -- would not cooperate with the officers' demands. They then exited the vehicle and began firing shots at the officers.

“The trooper asked them to remain in the car and show their hands, which they refused to do,” said Sgt. C.G. Logan of the Highway Patrol. “After a brief period, they both exited the vehicle. There were two occupants, a white male and a white female, both carrying weapons. And that’s when the firefight started.”

Several officers returned fire, killing the driver and injuring the passenger. She was transported to Presbyterian Hospital with gunshot wounds to the chest.



The van was cornered in the Rosedale Commons shopping center.
No officers were hurt, but one innocent bystander did suffer minor injuries. The woman, an employee at the Blockbuster Video store about 50-60 yards away from the shootout, was struck by glass after a stray bullet went through the store window. She was treated at the scene.


Scott Brower was in another nearby store, watching the incident as it unfolded.

“I look out the window, and I see the cops with their pistols drawn,” he said. “You hear them yelling. We started watching. And then as we were all sort of gathered here in the window and watching, they opened fire and we hit the floor and ran to the back of the store.”

The Sunshine House, a day-care center located right behind the shopping center, went on lockdown when it heard about the shooting.

“One of the parents heard it on the news and called us,” said Doren Martin of The Sunshine House. “So we did emergency procedures, got all the kids out of the classrooms, put them in the hallways, made sure we locked all the doors.”



The Highway Patrol has asked the State Bureau of Investigation to look into Thursday's shooting, which is standard procedure for all police shootings.
Concerned parents frantically tried to get to their kids.


“They wanted to know what was going on,” Martin said. “Police aren’t telling them anything. We didn’t know anything, so we couldn’t tell them what was going on.”

The Highway Patrol has asked the State Bureau of Investigation to look into Thursday's shooting, which is standard procedure for all police shootings.

The officers involved in the shooting will be placed on administrative lead while the investigation is conducted.
 

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I just watched the footage. It doesn't look good from the camera's point of view. I have to say that I am a police officer in R.I. I have been involved in many high speed chases so I think I might be able to comment on this incident. I wouldn't pass judgment on the police officer until I hear from both sides. It is possible that while the suspect was getting up he made some type of movement and the officer lost sight of his hands. It is also possible that the police officer used poor judgement. I'm not sure because I wasn't there. I watched a tape of a "police beating" in St. Louis. I kept watching it waiting for something to happen. I didn't see anything besides a couple of strikes to the side with one of the police officer's knees. There is nothing wrong with that when you are restraining a suspect. It is taught in most police academys across the nation.

There are a lot of people around who like to comment on situations that they have no business commenting about. You know the kind of guy I'm talking about. He is the same guy who owned an Interceptor for a year and a half, but could tell Valentino Rossi what he is doing wrong on the race track.
 

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The Officer fired 3 round into an unarmed guy!!!!???? What is to question here?? I understand that it was a mistake, bad judgment, or whatever you want to call it. I believe that when you take a badge and an oath to up hold the law you also take on a new level of responsibility. It not the public who give cops a bad name its a FEW mistakes that cops make that give them a bad name. Lets look at it this way... If I had shot an unarmed guy 3 times I bet administrative leave would be the least of my problems. Honestly I have more understanding for the cops that beat up Rodney King, Atleast they had a leg to stand on. I cant see any reason this cop should have had a finger on his trigger. If we start justify peoples wrong doing by saying they are "under stress" or "you cant know the situation until you have been there" we wont have any law at all.
 

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kingsnake1650 said:
The Officer fired 3 round into an unarmed guy!!!!???? What is to question here?? I understand that it was a mistake, bad judgment, or whatever you want to call it. I believe that when you take a badge and an oath to up hold the law you also take on a new level of responsibility. It not the public who give cops a bad name its a FEW mistakes that cops make that give them a bad name. Lets look at it this way... If I had shot an unarmed guy 3 times I bet administrative leave would be the least of my problems. Honestly I have more understanding for the cops that beat up Rodney King, Atleast they had a leg to stand on. I cant see any reason this cop should have had a finger on his trigger. If we start justify peoples wrong doing by saying they are "under stress" or "you cant know the situation until you have been there" we wont have any law at all.

How do you know he was unarmed? You know that because they said it after the fact. If a person is running from the police, the police have probable cause to believe the person is: armed, wanted, or possessing drugs. I listed those in order. You have to assume the person is armed. If you dont and you let your guard down, you're dead. I can't express this enough, we are passing judgement without all of the facts. We have not spoken to anyone involved.

King are you a police officer or just the guy who watched "Cops" last Saturday night?

"I cant see any reason this cop should have had a finger on his trigger."
This might be the quote of the year. I would like to know how you can come up with a valid argument for this stupid quote.
 
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