[surffly]

I have a kink for rare, special and interesting bikes.
To me I just love homologation bikes too.

Recently I started to casually look and learn about Ducati R bikes and the market.
Im not a racer, so buying a new/modern one doesn't appeal. Basically the depreciation kills it for me.
On the other hand I am not a collector, so not interested in spending buckets of money on a bike that if I use it will hurt the value.

What has caught my eye is the 748R and 749R.
They seem like bargains and I do not understand that.
What is a really nice mono 748? $5k? but the R seems to hover around $10k
When I look at really nice 996 Monos at $7500 and the R at $20k-25k I start to wonder.

Am I missing something?
Thoughts?

 

[Sherpa23F]

There's a ton of love for both of those models. They weren't produced in big numbers which is why you don't see a lot but they're both pretty special bikes.



As to your question, the 996R and 998R are very special bikes and produced in extra low numbers and were homologated for WSBK (like the SPS before them) but the 748R/749R were homologated for World Supersport which had a ton of limitations other than just the engine size. The 748R didn't get the carbon bodywork and bellypan the 996R and 998R did but the 749R did get the carbon bodywork. A few other things too and in the end, unless you're tracking or racing, there's not a lot that buying an S and upgrading doesn't get you.



Anyways, both of those models are super but most that have owned them think they're more suited to the track than the road (they still make nice road bikes, though, but if you do that exclusively then get the S). Depending on what year 748R you have, they can be fiddly at idling and have a few quirks. The engine parts are expensive and some years need a lot of extra attention. The 2002's got sweet shower injectors and @ProphetPVD here has one and uses it a ton.



I have a 1999 one but it's a track bike with a lot of RS parts (bodywork, triples, swingarm, wheels, etc.) to go with the 748R motor. It's an amazing bike.

 

[Buhgaboo]

The R stands for regret....start pricing out replacing titanium engine parts and it will become clear...if your not racing, there isn't anything on that bike you need that the lower spec will not fullfil.

 

[davy.j]

A base 748 with an 853 kit is just as powerful, with a wider spread of torque than an R and a much better road bike too.
It's a no-brainer to me.

 

[surffly]

I didn't think about the production numbers, I assumed they were similar.
Thought only 215 748R came to the states in three years.

I know what you guys are saying about a stock bike with modern upgrades.
To me there is something special about a bike like this in stock form. Kind of just a snap shot in time.

Did only the 2002 get the shower injectors?

I have a Monster S4 for daily use.
Mainly looking for a "point A to point A bike" Just something to blast around on every now and again.
Would like to keep it mainly stock. Figure that if I buy smart when I go to sell the bike I will at the very least break even.

What sparked my interest was running across a 2001 with low miles and good history.
Wanted to see what people think of these bikes and understand the strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks for the help

 

[Sherpa23F]

I know what you guys are saying about a stock bike with modern upgrades.
To me there is something special about a bike like this in stock form. Kind of just a snap shot in time.

Did only the 2002 get the shower injectors?

I don't think anyone is really talking about modern upgrades - they're all period correct stuff. But if stock is what you want, a 748R might not be the bike for you. Every stock one that I've ridden did not work well. They weren't meant to be left stock. The factory slapped them together and expected most would go to the track and be properly tuned and tweaked and modified (as opposed to the 748RS where they expected each one to be completely disassembled and rebuilt before seeing use). The fueling was way off, none idled properly, and they were just not very pleasant. The only year I haven't ridden stock is a 2002 so I can't comment on that version.

As far as the injectors go, I could totally be wrong but I want to say that when they went to the carbon airbox there was the change in the injectors. So maybe 2001 and 2002? Someone with one can correct me.

 

[surffly]

Interesting information. Guess I didnt think about that.

Started looking at the 9XX bikes, but these 7XX seemed like a sweet spot.

To me I see the R bikes like this.
996/998-Full collectors with big prices and still rising.
999-at the bottom of the price curve
1098/1198-Still have a little more value to drop. Also unclear on tank issues, and not a huge fan of the electronics and style
Pingale-Defiantly still a depreciation bike, and WAY more performance then I need/want at this point.

Was looking at a few 999R bikes.
Thought that the 748 or 749 would let me have all the "special" for a lot less money and have a package that was usable on the street.

 

[flynbulldog]

You better research the R bikes a little more than looking at prices and depreciation because ownership is a whole different story. Exotic engine internals, stiff suspension, and race intended components all add up to a bike that is summarily unpleasant to own and ride on the street. The R bikes are meant for the track, they do not make good street bikes and are not intended to be ridden and parked time after time.
Race teams get value from the R bikes, casual owners get a crappy ride and lots of headaches.

Buy yourself a 999S and be happy

 

[surffly]

I know what you are saying about them making bad street bikes.
To me that is part of the fun and since this in no way would be a main bike, I am okay with that being a negative.

This would not be my first exotic or racy bike on the streets.
I mainly used to work with 60s-70s race bikes.

Is there a large shortage of parts to keep these bikes running?
Or is it just the added cost of "rare and special" components?

 

[flynbulldog]

I know what you are saying about them making bad street bikes.
To me that is part of the fun and since this in no way would be a main bike, I am okay with that being a negative.

This would not be my first exotic or racy bike on the streets.
I mainly used to work with 60s-70s race bikes.

Is there a large shortage of parts to keep these bikes running?
Or is it just the added cost of "rare and special" components?

Cost of components is a factor but valve adjustments are also different on some of the R bikes requiring special tools and carry a higher price at service time.

 

[surffly]

GREAT!
I love tools.

Bought a SnapOn set of witworth wrenches/sockets to work on my Norton....lol

 

[FourRings]

I've got a 999S for the street and a 749R for the track. Caveat - both have been highly modified so your experience may be different.

They make roughly (+/- 10 hp) the same power, but deliver it in very different ways. The 999S has more torque and a fat mid range. The 749R revs 2,500 rpm higher and makes its power higher up in the range. As a result, the riding experience is very different. Horses for courses - what do you want?

All that said, if you want an R, screw what everyone has to say, buy one, and ride the snot out of it!

 

[jsedacca]

Just to clarify, ALL 748R’s from 2000 to 2002 were equipped with the shower injectors. I have a 2000 which has the Showa suspension front/rear. 2001-2002 received the Ohlins forks, ohlins rear shock and carbon airbox.

 

[GeoffM]

I've got a 999S for the street and a 749R for the track. Caveat - both have been highly modified so your experience may be different.

They make roughly (+/- 10 hp) the same power, but deliver it in very different ways. The 999S has more torque and a fat mid range. The 749R revs 2,500 rpm higher and makes its power higher up in the range. As a result, the riding experience is very different. Horses for courses - what do you want?

All that said, if you want an R, screw what everyone has to say, buy one, and ride the snot out of it!

Couldn't agree more. An R is definitely not meant to rack up street miles. Read one of the many threads on Panigale R's requiring rebuilds with relatively few miles. Then lookup Fancy Animal (on youtube). He has something close to 30k on an 1199S with very few issues (other than being rear ended)...

 

[xracer]

Having ridden all the r bikes, from 748 to 1198, I feel I can comment. None of the r bikes are bad road bikes, after all they were sold as street bikes with ordinary street ohlins, some so called performance engine parts and the “R” monicker and some carbon for bling. Ducati marketing know how to tap into the wealthy by building something “exclusive” (perceived or real) and expensive. Don’t get hung up on it. Buy what you like and can afford and fuck the people who look down on your bike.

 

[davy.j]

I don't look down on 748R's .... I just grin as I fly past them with my 853 >

 

[loony888]

Having ridden all the r bikes, from 748 to 1198, I feel I can comment. None of the r bikes are bad road bikes, after all they were sold as street bikes with ordinary street ohlins, some so called performance engine parts and the “R” monicker and some carbon for bling. Ducati marketing know how to tap into the wealthy by building something “exclusive” (perceived or real) and expensive. Don’t get hung up on it. Buy what you like and can afford and fuck the people who look down on your bike.

this should be interesting...

So you're saying the R in whatever version is a marketing exercise and the performance engine parts are "so called" by name only?

 

[flynbulldog]

yeah Pankle rods, titanium valves, 43 degree cam overlap, and TTX shocks etc are all marketing... :nerd:
I dont think anybody was "looking down" on anyone's bike or their choice of bike...

 

[seven4niner]

It’s tricky. Many of the “dog’s bollocks” parts back then seem a little hum drum now. Ti conrods that were impossibly exotic meant a short stroke 748R rev’d like nothing else in the Ducati range at the time. But many bikes have them now and bore to stroke ratio’s have only get more and more radical since then.
A 749R with the flat rear link and Ohlins shock, plus the trick front end, was just a beautiful thing on almost any winding road (not just track). And those 4 pad front calipers took braking to a new level, good enough to also grace the front of the game-changing S1000RR a few years later.
An adjustable Ohlins steering damper was big money to spend on a base 749, and arguably a waste of money without the adjustable offset triples, but made perfect sense on the 749R.
Yet now we have ABS+monoblock calipers, mechatronic semi-active suspension shit and nearly 20 years of performance knowledge and parts available.
Back in (for example) 2005 trying to build something to rival a 749R (without increasing capacity) from a base model 749, for less than the 749R price was mission impossible.
Sorry, but saying an 853 is faster than a 748R is no more illuminating than saying a 996 is faster than a 916: of course it is.
Nah, you have to look at one of these bikes through the lens of time: of course time has moved on, they are no longer at the cutting edge....but they are still very cool bikes. It’s just like that RS500 Sierra or RS Camaro pinned to our childhood bedroom wall, a cheap hot hatch would leave either fish-tailing in its dust but they are still very cool cars, and no imitation is quite the same.
Mate, if you’re interested one of these things just do it. There’s faster. There’s cheaper. But nothing is quite the same as the real thing....buy one and just enjoy the experience.

 

[xracer]

yeah Pankle rods, titanium valves, 43 degree cam overlap, and TTX shocks etc are all marketing... :nerd:
I dont think anybody was "looking down" on anyone's bike or their choice of bike...

and you so need them to go fast to the cafe dont you.