Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Clutch, that is. Being relatively new to performance motorcycles, I wonder what the real world advantages/disadvantages would be on a purely street bike. Are these just "gilding the lilly", or do they really help in aggressive street riding? Or, put another way, if I'm riding aggressively enough to realize the advantages of one, should I be on the track, or do they work at a reduced "street" pace?

My only high-performance experience has been in old sports cars, some with non-synchromesh "crash boxes". This experience has led me to habitually rev-match every downshift ("heel'n'toe" the brake/gas to "blip" the throttle under braking, to facilitate the downshift). I find it even easier, and more natural on the bike. I blip the throttle to rev-match downshifts, and never really feel the bike upset in any way when I let the clutch out. I kind of like the additional compression braking as well. With this riding style, is there anything for me in a slipper clutch set-up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
i'm with you... a well matched downshift is one of the foundations of smooth riding.

i would imagine a slipper would be of value on a track(obviously), but i suppose it is like those newfangled automated 'manuals' in cars... race on sunday, sell on monday.

i think it has alot to do with how much 'involvement' you want in your street ride
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,908 Posts
If your rear wheel is not hopping around on entrances to turns, you probably don't a slipper clutch.

Slipper clutches are very useful on the track. They come in handy on fast canyon rides too. Slipper clutches still require a blip to smooth out the down shifts but you don't have to be so precise. They still give you engine braking.

-M
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
the same type of guys who want/like "motogp" shifting (Valentino Rossi shifts like most normals) for a street bike will probably want a slipper clutch for their street-only ride.

if you are pushing that hard on the street, you really should be on track.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,735 Posts
If you have excess dough to spend, get one. I think I can name a few times where a slipper would have come in handy. In the case approaching a tight curve going too fast at least with a slipper you can downshift with a little more confidence that you won't hop or fishtail all over the place. Yeah, if I had the extra money, I would like to have one. However, its not a substitute for smooth coordinated downshifts. I think if you are prone to going too fast in the canyons a slipper would be a good safety device.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,916 Posts
Are these just "gilding the lilly", or do they really help in aggressive street riding? Or, put another way, if I'm riding aggressively enough to realize the advantages of one, should I be on the track, or do they work at a reduced "street" pace?
I blip the throttle to rev-match downshifts, and never really feel the bike upset in any way when I let the clutch out. I kind of like the additional compression braking as well. With this riding style, is there anything for me in a slipper clutch set-up?

you have to take a look at what you ride and
how you ride it, to understand the need for a
slipper clutch.

if you change your bike against a superbike,
with even higher compression and fewer ro-
tating masses on the crankshaft, the rear wheel
is more likely to stuck while you down shift, or
will apply strong forces to the suspension at least,
due to immense engine breaking.
More of that, if you mismatch your down shifting
of course.

even with your supersport you will notice, that
if you take riding to the limit, where one little
mistake is made with the down shifting in example,
that the rear wheel will wipe out giving you some
extra adrenalin for sure, and that only a quick
pull of the clutch will save your day than.

that said, a slipper clutch is a safety device, that
let you stay concentrated on the braking and
road layout, not to worry about how much the
engine will brake, as the drag of the slipper clutch
should be adjustable.

i do not have a slipper clutch, and consider the
ability to ride a high compresson big twin without
one, in a fluent line, as something only an advanced
rider can do.

i could have managed lower adrenalin levels at
certain times for sure, if my bikes where equipped
with a slipper clutch at that time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the replies, guys. You have pretty much afirmed my suspicions about these, in that if I'm not hammering at a 10/10ths "race pace", and am at least somewhat adept at rev matching, I probably don't need one.

My motor does have very high compression and a lightened flywheel. The paper can the Cosworth pistons came in says "12:1" on it... and the stock starter has a difficult time turning it when cold, to the point of having a headlight switch wired in so it can be turned off, to give that poor battery a chance. Anyway, it sounds like I do have the "worst case scenario" as far as potential for a rear wheel lock-up.

I guess I'm a bit old-school (some would say "old fart"...) in my motor hobbies. I've never seen high-tech as a substitute for skill and practice. Nailing it just right on a machine that is difficult to do that on (or in) has a certain satisfaction to it. I think I'll save my money and just keep riding. Thanks for the input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
I guess I'm a bit old-school (some would say "old fart"...) in my motor hobbies. I've never seen high-tech as a substitute for skill and practice. Nailing it just right on a machine that is difficult to do that on (or in) has a certain satisfaction to it. I think I'll save my money and just keep riding. Thanks for the input.[/QUOTE]


Right on
 

·
Chilehead
Joined
·
6,982 Posts
I have slippers on my ST2, SS and 999R. Sometimes, I wonder why.

Then I get on my 1985 LeMans with Ergal flywheel, curb weight barely more than the 999R (it's been on a diet, as have all of my bikes), Magni rear end, magnesium wheels, etc., and I realize that this bike really needs a slipper clutch!

I should put the OEM back on the Ducatis and see if I notice the difference, but I suspect I will.

Tom

P.S. I live in the Alps, so my local roads, and needs, are probably very different than most riders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
A well matched downshift is one of the joys of riding a motorcycle or driving a car. I think being so aware of what you're doing helps you to stay focused. It may be old school but I've never had a desire to resort to a slipper clutch.
 

·
Chilehead
Joined
·
6,982 Posts
When my mother taught me to drive a stick shift, she also taught me to drive without using the clutch (not as the main method, but 'just in case'). And learning to drive without a clutch was not only useful when the clutch cable would break (on my Beetle at least twice), but also when a bike cable started to go for no reason and was down to the last few strands and I wanted to milk it home using as little clutch as possible.

So, a clutch is by no means necessary, but nice to have.

Same with a slipper. I don't rely on it, but it's nice to have.

And I believe that less rotating mass is better (certainly moreso than more power).

Actually, I'm quite old school.

Two weeks ago at our annual Motogiro, one day I traded bikes with a friend, giving him my 999R, and taking his heavily modified R75/5 (actually a heavily mofified R90S in R75/5 dress). I have no problem lending him my bikes, as he has never broken nor crashed any, whereas I have been riding his 916SPS when the pinion shaft bearing disintgrated at 100 MPH somewhere in the Marche, his 750 Montjuich when both ignition sensors decided to crap out, luckily only 1/4 mile from his house, and said BMW when I bent a valve by hitting 8k (severl times) on overrevs during engine braking (seeing as the brakes themselves didn't do very much even with the twin Lookheeds).

At the end of the day, he had a blast thrashing my 999R in the Marche, and I doing the same on the BMW, despite the radically differnt riding styles required.

But I still think that my LeMans (and his BMW) need slippers!

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
A well matched downshift is one of the joys of riding a motorcycle or driving a car. I think being so aware of what you're doing helps you to stay focused. It may be old school but I've never had a desire to resort to a slipper clutch.
i agree, very well said
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top