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Discussion Starter #1
Strangely the superquadro has been around for about 7 years yet I don't see any high performance internal engine parts other than carillo rods. Does no one do performance work to these in the way the testastrettas were done? Bigger valves, high compression pistons, crankshaft lightening etc etc?

I'd love to see a 150whp 959 or something of that sort. I never even see things like camshaft timing being discussed about these.
 

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Strangely the superquadro has been around for about 7 years yet I don't see any high performance internal engine parts other than carillo rods. Does no one do performance work to these in the way the testastrettas were done? Bigger valves, high compression pistons, crankshaft lightening etc etc?

I'd love to see a 150whp 959 or something of that sort. I never even see things like camshaft timing being discussed about these.
I don't really have an answer to your specific question. But I do have pure speculation about why you do not see much in the way of engine parts for many bikes these days.

Break it into two types of sportbikes: literbikes and larger, and middleweights. I will ignore small bikes like the 300cc and 400cc bikes.

So look at new literbikes, I would put the bigger Panigales in this group. Are they not fast enough for everyone? I would say maybe 5% of owners could actually use the power the bike has now on the track, and even less on the street. Things like exhaust will remain popular because they do drop some weight and help the sound.

Now take smaller bikes, would include the 899 & 959 along with 600s and 750s. These could use more power, and the power they have plus more can be utilized by more riders on the road and track. But then the question is this: if you want more power what is more economical, improve the engine you have or upgrade the entire bike with the bigger model? You would likely never get a 959 in any state of tune to power levels of an 1199, much less a 1299. So for another $5k or so you can trade in the 959 for a 1299.

When the 899 came out I made the comment that hopping up an 899 was pointless, just upgrade to a 1199. Same thing applies with the 959 and 1299.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I brought this up thinking about the 'B' superbike classes of most amateur racing series that allow up to 1000cc Duc superbikes to compete in. The 999 is long in the tooth, and would love to see the 899 or 959 engine development progress to beyond what the 999 is capable of. But local competing 999Rs in my region are Superbike rules built to 145-150whp, quite a bit more than the 959 is managing in near stock form.
 

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Boulder Motorsports does.
 

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“Long in the tooth”? Really! Think that it has far more potential then a 959 ever will. You want to race with “long in the tooth” 140+ hp bikes that have head and shoulders more race heritage, parts available and a vast knowledge base, on a bike that was NEVER intended to be raced. You’re going to be throwing a lot of money at the 959 if you want to have the mechanical advantage over some of these old beasts.
 

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As stated above, what would be the point with the smaller bikes when you can just trade up to something with more cubes?

The older stuff all comes with some sort of racing heritage so it was (still is) simply a case of following the template laid out by the Corse crew over a few too many bottle of prosecco. Add your chosen selection of Corse (or aftermarket equivalent) parts, add water and stir. Anything with R or RS attached to the moniker was a good bet to be an effective race proven upgrade for a "lesser" model.

But there is no recognised mainstream race class for most Pani's, with 899/959 too big for Supersport, and 1299 too big for Superbike. I don't know what it's like up your way but last time I went to a club race meeting down here there wasn't a single Pani being raced....kinda sad, but completely understandable given the costs involved.

But the Superquadro is a breed apart so there is no huge range of interchangeable parts that the earlier bikes have available. Think about the Sir Mixalot nature of the desmo 900SS/851 right through to 1198 Testa Evo: cranks, heads, cams, pistons, gearbox etc etc and the options were only limited by your imagination, stud spacing and what you can find on Ebay. If you are mechanically minded much of can be done for very little coin. 748 heads on an 851, CR gearbox from 748 into all sorts, 900SS or these days a 1098/1198 crank into a 999 etc etc. And that's just the common or garden variety road going parts, now throw in the tasty Corse bits and you enter another world of options again. Think of, for example, the Testastretta being raced in WSB and many domestic series: 100mm bore or 104mm bore, 104mm with short rods (F03/4) or 104mm bore with longer rods (F05/6) and how that compares to the lack of evolution in the Pani engine architecture.

So there are very few non-custom options for the Superquadro, and therefore everything is crazy expensive.

Not to mention in our overpoliced neck of the woods +200hp is almost irrelevant. Shelling out for some monster hp engine would be the equivalent of paying for a hooker and just sitting down for a chat.
 

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Here you can see the development in the last years.

They also put an graph of the 999 to compare. see the whole vid.


I also believe that the 999 is the better option.
 

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That guy James from JHS racing seems like he really knows his bikes. He also works on the bikes for 44 Teeth and Baron von Grumble on YouTube. Funny guys and always good episodes with JHS racing.
 

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I made a comment back in the years about the 899 and that the 848 would surpass it but the very few last rpms at 11k where the 899 popped 5hp, not useful for most.
The whole porting/tuning industry slowly died from the rumors new bikes produce so much power ole guys gave up, add the new bike are way too complicated to adjust fuel on, and I did my share on the last few, Im done too.
 

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I do know some about dynoing and that pic aint right ;)
Theyre doing the comparison on different gears and on speed, sneaky.
If power is always above with a product you can be pretty shure its fudged.

Else popular sneaks are:
First run is considered baseline, and then put the so called superduperstuff on and we have 5hp up

Just do the same in that order and do nothing, and you have 5hp up!

IF youre interested in a true result, do a baseline of min 7 runs, test stuff, go back to baseline setup and make sure it is the same.
 

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To continue on. If you’re adamant about using the newer generation bike then the best thing would be to spend money on the suspension and handling IF you think there are any shortcomings there. What I tell most beginners is that if you want to go faster, turn the throttle more. Learn to ride the race track (racecraft). Learn consistency. Learn that there is more then one setup that will work. Rely on the stopwatch not what you feel.
 

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You are correct Xracer..... more throttle, less brake..... Money spent on suspension is money well spent.
 

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Further to the above, knowledge is power. I'm happy to admit I'm no expert, but I'm often shocked at trackdays how little people know about their bikes, suspension especially. I'm not talking about the finer intricacies just simple stuff like setting sags, which end of the shock/forks is compression/rebound, and what they do etc. Folks rock up with a near new 180hp GSZXR1000RRRR and have no idea about tyre pressures and volunteer their bikes to be "set up" by the tutor because they haven't the faintest idea where to start. Not having a crack at anyone, we've all started somewhere, just highlighting that people want more without even understanding or maximising what they have.

My old '06 R1 (purtiest japanese bike ever) roadie is a classic example: GYTR slip ons, de-catted link pipe, PClll, BMC filter, no rocketship but still 160-ish rwhp(?)....but just an absolute pig of a thing on the test ride, no wonder the owner was flogging it and keeping their GSXR600. All the same, it was in great low mile condition so I picked it up. Turned out the front rebound was at almost minimum, way too much compression damping, with the shock almost the exact opposite. So the poor thing gave you no compliance whatsoever entering a corner, would then pop back up as soon as you got off the brakes/tipped in, while the rear would squat with a sniff of throttle and just stay there on exit, packing over bumps etc....just horrible. The hairs on the back of my neck stand up just thinking about someone trying to push it along a bumpy country road or on a track day. But an hour after getting it home it was the sweet ride it always should have been, and I certainly don't yearn for any "more", "go directly to jail" is fast enough for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I appreciate the feedback, but feel maybe it's going off topic. I'm not debating whether or not suspension modification is more beneficial than more horsepower. It was more of 2 Ducati engines within 40cc of each other that are separated by almost 15 years of production and technological advancement, yet the newer engine can't seem to match the power output of the older one. I was hoping this was not the case...
 
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