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The Engineer (Tell your mom hey)
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
first let me preface by saying.. I suck at wheelies. they scare me like snakes.. but I still want to be able to do them.

SO in the interest of learning this morning.. I popped a BIG one (well big for me) leaving a stop light this morning. Not the pop the clutch kind.. the kind Right after the clutch has engaged and you are really cranking down on the throttle to go fast. I normally lean forward but .. you know how it goes. anyway..
when you pop wheelies you are supposed to just ride the throttle till the front comes down softly,, ie don't slam it down like you are trying to kill the front tire.
I slammed it down because the wheelie bigger than I had expected and it kind of scared me. I heard a POP.. and I also accidently shifted into neutral.. but that was easily fixed.. finished my ride and checked the front.. nothing wrong thankfully (I know I know I'm a dumbass but the bike brings it out in me).
so to get to the point.. The suspension travel is enough to cause the headlight to bump the fender. I didn't know but I do now and IF you ever have cause to make this happen,, just be aware .. that's what that noise was/is.
also it's pretty smart how Ducati attached the headlight.. some rubber helps it move a lot if it needs to.

anyway that was my adventure this morning. :D

also as a side note: I FINALLY got my tags.. it took an act of a bureaucrat at the revenue office to get it.. geez.
 

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first let me preface by saying.. I suck at wheelies. they scare me like snakes.. but I still want to be able to do them.

SO in the interest of learning this morning.. I popped a BIG one (well big for me) leaving a stop light this morning. Not the pop the clutch kind.. the kind Right after the clutch has engaged and you are really cranking down on the throttle to go fast. I normally lean forward but .. you know how it goes. anyway..
when you pop wheelies you are supposed to just ride the throttle till the front comes down softly,, ie don't slam it down like you are trying to kill the front tire.
What did you have the DTC on? Or was it off entirely?

I popped an inadvertent one passing a couple of cars on a mountain road, and with the DTC set at 7 it only came up a couple of inches and then let itself back down very gently (all while I was on the gas.) Sometimes I forget I'm on the bike with 155HP not the one with 80.
 

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The Engineer (Tell your mom hey)
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Discussion Starter #3
I've had DTC on level 5 recently. The reason it slammed back down in this case was because I let off the throttle.
 

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The DTC will let you wheelie as long as you like, providing you do not break traction anywhere. I've had a couple times I was having a nice go of a wheelie and hit a white line or manhole cover and the DTC cuts power and slams me down harder than I'd prefer. I run level 3 typically.

I have a 1098R that the DTC is way more aggressive on and way less forgiving. I don't even use it on that bike because it's annoying. It ruins just about every wheelie and that bike loves to wheelie. On the track I'm sure it's much better, but for street riding there is a huge difference between the SF and the R.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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Two thoughts... After having removed the headlight from the bracket to unravel the lines that rub each other when I installed the FatBar... Be aware that apart from the snaggle hooks at the top of the headlight/dash assembly, there at two nuts that only need to be loose or repeatedly shocked (wheelie) before they let go of the dash. The bottom of the dash is a slotted bracket that is held by friction/tension of the nut/bolt. Just loosen them and lift, no bolt removal to pull the dash.

My second thought is that I wonder about whether if the DTC systems are the same but "tuned" differently, and whether you could get your 1098 DTC updated with the SF DTC setup? If both sport the same parts maybe Ducati could answer that question... that is if you found the SF setup usable while the 1098 too harsh to use.... just a thought.
 

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One advise- always keep your foot near the rear brake pedal. I know sounds stupid but were you ready with your foot? Every time I do it I notice that my brain did not function right and my right foot was never ready for it. Once you get up there just balance it with the throttle very easyyyyyy
 

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Two thoughts... After having removed the headlight from the bracket to unravel the lines that rub each other when I installed the FatBar... Be aware that apart from the snaggle hooks at the top of the headlight/dash assembly, there at two nuts that only need to be loose or repeatedly shocked (wheelie) before they let go of the dash. The bottom of the dash is a slotted bracket that is held by friction/tension of the nut/bolt. Just loosen them and lift, no bolt removal to pull the dash.

My second thought is that I wonder about whether if the DTC systems are the same but "tuned" differently, and whether you could get your 1098 DTC updated with the SF DTC setup? If both sport the same parts maybe Ducati could answer that question... that is if you found the SF setup usable while the 1098 too harsh to use.... just a thought.
I hadn't really given it a thought regarding updating the DTC. I know the R is ignition only and that's why it's only activated with the race pipes and ECU. With stock exhaust, fumes would gather in the pipes and backfire if the DTC was triggered. Whereas the SF retard ignition AND will cut fuel...so the systems are different. I bet a lot different actually.

But, honestly, I'm not terribly worried about it...hell I road for 30 years without DTC, I guess I'll just keep being careful and hope for the best on the R and Desmo. And the HD for that matter! :D
 

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The DTC will let you wheelie as long as you like, providing you do not break traction anywhere. I've had a couple times I was having a nice go of a wheelie and hit a white line or manhole cover and the DTC cuts power and slams me down harder than I'd prefer. I run level 3 typically.
So I'm confused - I thought DTC worked by comparing the speeds of the front and rear wheels and cutting power when there was a differential. With your front wheel up in the air wouldn't it end up rotating slower than the rear? Maybe on level 3 it has to be a big differential to make it step in?
 

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The Engineer (Tell your mom hey)
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Discussion Starter #9
the ducati DTC looks at the bike dynamics.. so I think this means it kicks in depending on HOW you pop the wheelie. for example there is this hill crest I love on the way home from work every day that I wheelie down the back side of.. If I hit the accelerator just right on the crest the bike thinks I have just lost traction when the front wheel comes up.. but If I loft the front wheel after the crest a bit then the bike knows I purposely did it and the DTC lights don't pop on.. I don't know what rules are all programmed into the system but I think it's pretty cool no matter what.

the wheelie this morning happened at a pretty low speed so I don't know if the DTC would have applied... PLUS I never saw the red lights flash
 

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So I'm confused - I thought DTC worked by comparing the speeds of the front and rear wheels and cutting power when there was a differential. With your front wheel up in the air wouldn't it end up rotating slower than the rear? Maybe on level 3 it has to be a big differential to make it step in?
The bike has a bank angle sensor. If you are vertical, the bike doesn't intervene too much. If you are leaned over and lose traction the DTC kicks in. You can certainly do some long, sick wheelies with this bike.
 

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The bike has a bank angle sensor. If you are vertical, the bike doesn't intervene too much. If you are leaned over and lose traction the DTC kicks in. You can certainly do some long, sick wheelies with this bike.
Ah. Oh, that makes sense.

As you can tell, I'm not much of a stunter... :D
 

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I think that explanation might be slightly different... DTC looks at the difference in gradient of speed between front and rear. This means if the read is gaining speed while front not, then it assumes spin and kicks in.
That would explain intervention during wheelie when you hit whiteline or manhole cover - your rear slips and spins, DTC reacts. It also explains why it depends how you initiate wheelie - proper one with front maintaining rotational speed on lift off will succeed.
 

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I think that explanation might be slightly different... DTC looks at the difference in gradient of speed between front and rear. This means if the read is gaining speed while front not, then it assumes spin and kicks in.
That would explain intervention during wheelie when you hit whiteline or manhole cover - your rear slips and spins, DTC reacts. It also explains why it depends how you initiate wheelie - proper one with front maintaining rotational speed on lift off will succeed.
I believe it may be a factor yes, but I've done some very long wheelies on the bike...long enough that when you touch down the front tire chirps. So it's not dependent solely on this parameter. I would say that the bike knows when it's level and a spike in RPM level triggers the DTC.

And the bike will wheelie at any given time the motor will allow it. I have never had an issue where I had a hard time initiating a wheelie, only where the bike has killed a wheelie.

The same holds true for the R or SF. Both will wheelie at any given time, especially the R, but the DTC will kill it if it detects slippage.
 

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Bon Vivant
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The R and the SF-1198 have different traction control altogether, they are not interchangeable.

My SF will not wheelie at all - none - NADA! with the DTC engaged at any level. I have to turn it off to wheelie.

I live at 6400 ft elevation - I'm 20% down on power compared to you guys at sea level. I had my bike at Laguna last week and - Wholy Shit! :eek:

Wow this bike is a wheelie hound, it will wheelie just thinking about it. It was scary to ride!

I'm home now - I'm gonna miss the power :sleep:
 

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I think that explanation might be slightly different... DTC looks at the difference in gradient of speed between front and rear. This means if the read is gaining speed while front not, then it assumes spin and kicks in.
That would explain intervention during wheelie when you hit whiteline or manhole cover - your rear slips and spins, DTC reacts. It also explains why it depends how you initiate wheelie - proper one with front maintaining rotational speed on lift off will succeed.
What makes you so sure it looks at gradient? I think you're assuming how you might do it. You could do the DTC a number of ways, and everyone here is speculating a bit at how it is actually done. Unless someone has seen the algorithm, or taken the code out of the bike somehow, I don't see the value in speculating.
 

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The Engineer (Tell your mom hey)
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Discussion Starter #16
What makes you so sure it looks at gradient? I think you're assuming how you might do it. You could do the DTC a number of ways, and everyone here is speculating a bit at how it is actually done. Unless someone has seen the algorithm, or taken the code out of the bike somehow, I don't see the value in speculating.
speculating is how knowledge is initially gained.. first speculate (or theorize).. then test. the speculations and then it's fact if it pans out.. since we didn't design the system we just have to pool together what we DO know and see how it turns out with our collective observations... once we have an idea of what to look for. :sleep::sleep:
 

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What makes you so sure it looks at gradient? I think you're assuming how you might do it. You could do the DTC a number of ways, and everyone here is speculating a bit at how it is actually done. Unless someone has seen the algorithm, or taken the code out of the bike somehow, I don't see the value in speculating.
Nothing. As I have stated in first sentence "I think that explanation might be slightly different..." This clearly denotes opinion, not fact. You do not see the value in speculation - fine, you should stop reading after first sentence.
What did you expect, that somebody from Ducati research department chimes in and provide you with snippet of the actual code? But this is also my speculation, so you may tune out and disregard it.
What makes you sure that anybody wants to read your enlightened remarks? I find them useless. Pompous and full of it too, I may add.
 

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Bon Vivant
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Yea fine but brady is right, we don't really know what the box is doing so we are all just spewing hot air...

all I know is the DTC on my bike interferes too much, I want to play - I'm not a racer so the traction control is just in the way :cool:
 

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These are floating around the Internet, but apparently it is part of a service presentation that Ducati put together for dealers. I've talked to multiple people now that have been able to hold wheelies with DTC on.





 
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