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Discussion Starter #1
Track day rider (fast intermediate/slow advanced) with a well set up 2008 R6. I am drawn to the allure of the ducati and considering picking up an 2004 749R for the track and wondering if anyone has any comparative experience with the two bikes. After the R6 which is fast and cuts like a knife, can I find happiness with the 749R?
 

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I'll let you know next Sunday ;)

Seriously, tho, you gotta be realistic with your expectations for the bike. Me, personally, I'm a Ducati guy comparable to your riding level. I have no problem riding a Jap I-4, but I prefer the laziness of a twin.

It's been my experience that my buddies that ride I-4's usually do not like the feel of the twin beacause it "feels" slow because of the relatively smooth, uneventful power delivery and lower rev limits.

Other aspects to look at is the cost of ownership of a 749(R, in particular) vs. Jap bikes. While being your own mechanic helps keep costs down, and the bikes are reliable, they do require more attention than your average R6. Cheap parts availability is not as abundant as the big 4 brands, but they are not scarce.
 

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Another guy you want input from is Tye1138. I'd guess that the Duc will want you to pick the right line and is not going to be easy to "throw around" in addition to what Matt has said.
 

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...I'd guess that the Duc will want you to pick the right line and is not going to be easy to "throw around" in addition to what Matt has said.
Very true... once the chassis is setup on the R, it handles considerably quicker than a stock setup. However, it's not going to change direction with the eagerness of an R6. I often find myself over-correcting when I ride my buddy's GSX-R, 675, etc. You do have to commit more to your line, but the fun of it is carrying more corner speed.

Two distinct advantages the the 749R has on the R6...

1) abundant low to midrange power (comparatively)
2) your buddy probably doesn't have one ;)
 

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Well, its a good question and since I've raced my 749R for an entire year and my racing partner has a 2007 R6, I can probably give you some good feedback.

The 2007-2009 R6 is pretty much the best supersport bike ever built. Its extremely light weight (368lb dry, off the factory floor) has good tunability for cheap (IE: exhaust, PC3, suspension etc) and they're cheap to buy and own.

The 2004 - 2006 Ducati 749R is arguably the best setup production Ducati superbike made. With the adjustable rake/trail, progressive shock, wheel base extendable swing arm (also on all 05+ models) Ohlins all the way around, slipper clutch and race derived gear ratio's. But, out of the box it weighs a metric ton compared to the R6, roughly 415lb's dry. It was also a very expensive bike originally, running in at $28,000 bux's, compared to its $9,000 rival.

I went into the 2009 race season with a bike I thought would last the entire season without much adjusting... I was wrong. The bike has thrown me curve ball after curve ball, all season long. From blown voltage regulators to oil pressure sensors and clutch failures, its been a long, arduous year mechanically. The upside is, due to the 749/999's very easy to access components, like clutches and suspension adjustments. From ride-height to wheel base, you can dick around with things until your blue in the face. Sometimes thats good, but other times, you just want a bike to get on and ride, regardless of the setup. I think this point is the biggest thing that separates the Ducati from its Japanese counter parts. Ducati: "Making Mechanics out of riders since 1968" and that's been my experience from this season of racing. Mind you, I do beat the living shit out of the bike, but so do all the other guys riding Japanese bikes.

With that being said, most people say: go with the Japanese bike because its cheaper and more reliable. Thats not necessarily true either... Japanese bike guys are stuck in a world of compactness. So when the bike does fail, working on it and determining the problem, comes down to a lot of work. I've seen TUNS of blown Japanese bikes this season, I've also seen people crash once and never come back to racing again because their bike is totaled. Ducati's do tend to crash better then Japanese bikes if you put on under-fairing sliders and low-side a lot. I've seen R6 engine blocks get cracked from simple 50mph low-sides, ya won't get that on a Ducati. I'd say the biggest reliability issue with Ducati's is the motor and even that is pretty rock solid for the first 5,000 miles of track use which is at least a few years for some people.

In the end, it comes down to the rider and his/her preference. I happen to like Ducati's because they're unique, the 749R is not cookie cutter and its taught me a lot about race setup because I learned all about geometry due the ease of adjustment and the ability to adjust so much. Good luck finding a ride-height adjuster on an R6, it doesn't exist. Good luck replacing the R6 shock, thats a weekend worth of work! The Duc's are easy to work with and very rewarding.

Ohh and yes, you can go just as quick on a well built 749R vs well built R6.



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Discussion Starter #6
Really helpful information and I appreciate the input. Thinking it may be better to go with the 848 and set that up for the track rather than the 749R.
 

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It is not a weekends worth of work to remove the R6 shock, more like 5 hours, LOL. I just installed a Penske 8987 on my R6. Later this month I am putting a 749R rear linkage on my 999R so I can tell you how it compares then. The Duc does seem to be easier from the install notes.

Also, the 8987 does have a ride height adjustment.
 

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Really helpful information and I appreciate the input. Thinking it may be better to go with the 848 and set that up for the track rather than the 749R.
I think tyl1138 has an 848, but prefers the 749R for the track.
I know a Coach who had a 1098S and sold it for 749R and said that He's done with the 1098.
I was also considering the R6 for track use...
 

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Stick with the r6 for the track.

Every time your 749r goes into the kitty litter, you're not gonna like the bill. Trust me.


I used to race a decked out 916 back in the day. Based on that experience, my track bike is now a Ninja 250.:p
 

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It is not a weekends worth of work to remove the R6 shock, more like 5 hours, LOL. I just installed a Penske 8987 on my R6. Later this month I am putting a 749R rear linkage on my 999R so I can tell you how it compares then. The Duc does seem to be easier from the install notes.

Also, the 8987 does have a ride height adjustment.
You can swap a xx9 shock in 5 minutes, easily. :cool:
 

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You can swap a xx9 shock in 5 minutes, easily. :cool:
It takes longer to put the bike on a stand, then it does to change the shock, or forks, or exhaust, or wait a sec... Everything is easy to do on the 749R! LOL :D

This is one reason I really like the 749/999 series bikes. On these bikes in racing configuration, the tank, seat and tail are all one piece. So all you do is unscrew the seat pinch bolts and unplug the fuel lines. Takes roughly 5 min to have the entire bike apart, ready to work on it. Thats something not even the 1098/848 can deliver you.

I think tye1138 has an 848, but prefers the 749R for the track.
I actually much prefer the 848 over the 749R in many ways. The reason why I went with a 749R was because of how good it was out of the box. The 848 needs MUCH more work to get good, where the 749R... has all the geometry changes, has the fancy motor, its pretty much got it all. Plus, I was sick and tired of the whole story "to get a longer wheel base, you've gotta get a different swing arm" I mean, thats just total bullshit and they're expensive! Then you've gotta deal with the beating of high-revs and the valve train, so you're putting in MBP collates. Then you've gotta build up the bottom end of the motor and do some porting to get back some power. I mean the list goes on and on, by the time your done building up an 848 to match a 749R, you could have bought 2 749R's!

Every time your 749r goes into the kitty litter, you're not gonna like the bill. Trust me.
You've gotta crash-proof your bike. Rear spools, Frame sliders, front wheel sliders, fold up levers, engine kill tip switch, and relatively thick fairings. Do the same crash-proofing to your R6, you'll still have cracked cases! I see it, every single time I go to the track. Some bloke on a brand new R1 low-sided and the motor was destroyed! Same with the R6.

What neat thing about Ducati's is; The motor is super thin. The only parts that stick out are the left and right cases. The under fairing frame sliders are only a tiny bit longer then the cases. This means, when you fall, the frame slider catches the fall, not the case and you don't wind up hitting your case on the ground at all. The Yamaha's, if you've got frame sliders longer then the cases, you break them off right when you hit uneven surface like grass or dirt. One of the big upgrades is to buy "case protectors" which are suppose to help. The only catch is, they're so strong, they turn the falling shockwave into a whole motor shockwave which goes through the motor and I've seen it literally eat through engine casings.

Anyhow, Ducati's are expensive but a very good design, Yamaha's are a poor design, but cheaper to fix and maintain.



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Anyhow, Ducati's are expensive but a very good design, Yamaha's are a poor design, but cheaper to fix and maintain.
Tye, the Yamaha is hardly a poor design... and Ducati's take on a modern Superbike still exhibits alot of design philosophy from over two decades ago.

But, they sure are purty :p
 

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eh, I've yet to see a R1 or R6 snapped in half... I've seen three GSXR's tho, where the only thing holding the two halves of the bike together were the control cables. Engine covers are consumble. Snuh ;)
 

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Well, according to several people at another forum, an 848 is just an overpriced and slower 600, so the 749 should be less than that, correct? LOL

The R6 is probably the smarter choice for the track. It is very fast and handles like nobody's business, and it is a lot cheaper. Why waste a classic like a 749R on the track, knowing that it is just a matter of time till you wad it up?

Beat the crap out of the jap bike and preserve that iconic piece of Italian art on wheels.
 

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Well, according to several people at another forum, an 848 is just an overpriced and slower 600, so the 749 should be less than that, correct? LOL

The R6 is probably the smarter choice for the track. It is very fast and handles like nobody's business, and it is a lot cheaper. Why waste a classic like a 749R on the track, knowing that it is just a matter of time till you wad it up?

Beat the crap out of the jap bike and preserve that iconic piece of Italian art on wheels.
The 848 is not slower than a stock 600 and neither is the 749R. I have ridden with many friends on the track with R6s and I have no issue pulling away from them on the straights with my 749R. One of the instructors I work with actually owns both a new R6 and a 848. I asked him about the comparison of the two and he said that the 848 has a slight edge on power and its light years ahead of the R6 in terms of confidence in the corners albeit with slower steering than the R6. In contrast, the R6 while very fast handling didn't feel as sure footed mid turn as the 848. In the end though, he said that he runs the same lap times on the 848 as the R6 and both bikes are just two different approaches to achieve the same purpose: fast lap times.

As for the 749R, it was designed for racing in mind. Why waste it by letting it rot in your garage or commuting on it? I rode mine on the street for a few weeks before I converted it to a track bike and it was horrible on the street. An 848 would make a much better street bike.
 

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Why waste a classic like a 749R on the track, knowing that it is just a matter of time till you wad it up?
As for the 749R, Why waste it by letting it rot in your garage or commuting on it? I rode mine on the street for a few weeks before I converted it to a track bike and it was horrible on the street. An 848 would make a much better street bike.
Just shows ya, some people really cherish their "machine" a bit too much. Dis ain't a sport-classic or somethin'. LOL :D

Ohh and BTW, I had another racer on a built 848 who couldn't keep up with me, yet on his 1098R, he passes me... (no shit) LOL :rolleyes:

Ohh and from my limited experiences, built 600cc machines are pretty dam quick! I have problems keepin' up with them...



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I have no doubt a built 600 would be hard to keep up with due to weight of those things. But a lightly modified 600cc should not give a similarly modded 848 or 749R any issue.
 

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Why waste a classic like a 749R on the track, knowing that it is just a matter of time till you wad it up?
waste?
it was made for the track, not to look at in the garage or some group ride...
 
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