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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
:think: How would you change the St line up? Here is mine.
1. 1200 cc
2. 2 valve. Less maintainence. Do you really need 4 valves for sport touring a 1200? If you want rack days---buy a 999
3. Give us valve and belt adjustments at 24000 instead of 6000
4. Get a new hardface service so the rockers don't flake. No reason for this. Period!
5. Re-locate the CPU from under the seat. In it's place put everything electrical that we need to get at on the road quick. All fuses, relays, even the starter solinoid, maybe even the battery.
6. All fairing fasteners will be Dzues fittings instead of screws.
7. Don't touch the brakes!!!! Best brakes of any bike I have riddin in 50 years of riding. ABS should be optional ONLY.
8. Forget the Showa and Sachs junk. If we are the flagship model, don't put junk on the bike like this. Ohlins front and rear only PLEASE!! I would pay the extra. Why should we send our forks and big money to some stranger to fix what the factory did not do?
9. Give us a manual fan switch along with the auto one. Some of us that live in hotter climates would like to turn the fan on before the boiling point.
What changes if any would you make if any?
Maybe the Duke of Cati will forget the Paul Smart things and make a Smart touring bike.
Oh by the way, the only color will be RED!!!!!!
 

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Heated Grips

If it's a true touring bike, add heated grips,
Just for looks if not touring with bags, do something about those big brackets.
 

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1) I'd like to see an overall styling update on the bike. Except for the upper fairing, it has not seen much change... and while restyling, please do something about the "newer" style upper fairing and headlight. Current one looks more like a Honda than a Ducati...and a painted rear hugger as standard (or c/f like the new Aprilia Mille).
2) self cancelling turn signals;
3) better dash functionality like an accurate speedo, accurate fuel guage, and a useful miles to empty function; and
4) little softer clutch pull;


The question that Borgo Panigale is probably really racking their brains about is wet clutch or dry clutch. What would you guys prefer on an ST?
 

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first a brief response to your dream changes:
1) 1200cc- thats fine
2)2 valves? - if #3 happens then what do you care how many valves:D
3) see #2
4) I agreed
5)my 02' has it by the battery, did they move it?
6) I agree
7) I agree
8) instead of a manuel override just make it adjustable or even offer different temp switches!!


Now my input:
One of the reason I picked the Ducati ST is that it was the sportiest ST around, so maybe two models an STS and an STR. one for road touring and one for sport. Yes I under stand if you want a track bike go get a 999 but I like the comfort of my ST with the hard bag option and the superbike engine. A Wolf in sheeps clothing.

adjustments I would make:
1) lighter
2) mentioned before -factory heated grips
3) mentioned before -self cancelling turn indicators
4) better looking bag brackets
5) toolless pipe adjustment from sport to tour
6) quick disconnect center stand
 

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When my friend who runs a Ducati dealership mailed me a Ducati brochure back in 1999, I saw the ST2 pictured in blue and said "that's my next bike" (as I hadn't owned a motorcycle in over 17 years prior). The ST4s was not available at the time when I finally purchased my ST2, and I questioned getting the ST4 but was steered away from it being told it was more costly to maintain, it ran hotter, and the ST2 was better suited for New England type riding/roads. Being I typical guy, after owning the ST2 awhile I naturally wanted more; more power, more suspension, more bling factor, just more! Now I spend my time and $$$ creating my own version of what I call the ST2s but I can't help longing for that dream ST4s sitting in my dealers showroom floor.

My local dealer just sold my dream ST...it was a '03 ST4s in yellow. I drooled over it every time I went in the shop but I didn't have the cash and I had invested quite a bit of $$$ in my ST2 already. I really like the yellow color and the earlier upper fairing style. It would also have to have the Ducati Designs headlight upgrade as a must! Of course all the nice mods, bling and farkle that I've done to my ST2 would need to transfer over to the ST4s; improved seat, taller windscreen, rear top case (in yellow), helibars, Marchesini 10 spokes ect. I still really enjoy the styling of the earlier models and that's way I also love my ST2 so much! My dream ST is now considered old and outdated by some, but I think it's very sweet indeed!

Thomas
 

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allikanbe said:
If it's a true touring bike, add heated grips,
Just for looks if not touring with bags, do something about those big brackets.
I agree with both. And the self cancelling turn signals. Otherwise I love my ST3 so far. If I was dreaming I'd ask for cam chains instead of belts and self adjusting rockers.
 

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I don't have an ST but will be considering a sport tour bike next year. Of course the ST will be in consideration but as you folks have pointed out, some aspects of the ST are not attractive to me. Most of it has to do with the maintenance schedule. I want a bike that mimics my 916 in performance, but doesn't kill your body parts in the process.

I really think the points you brought up, especially those posed by Honest-al are exceptional and should if we could pass them on to Ducati NA. Will these valid suggestions fall on deft ears, probably. If we could propose it in a way where they could take credit for it, from A to Z then it might fly.

I'll be watching the world of the ST and see what happens. Personally, I like hi-tech instument panels and nice looking connectors for ad ons. Better lights too, HID front, LED rear.
 

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Easy, the one I have now!

2-valve, 90RWHP, 20kg lighter than OEM, improved lighting and electrics, Ohlins rear, Ohlins/RaceTech/Showa front, clipons, rearsets, slipper clutch, etc. Can't think of anything else I'd change.

Though, if they made hard-bags for my SS1000, I'd get rid of the ST2!

Tom
 

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John said:
I don't have an ST but will be considering a sport tour bike next year. Of course the ST will be in consideration but as you folks have pointed out, some aspects of the ST are not attractive to me. Most of it has to do with the maintenance schedule.
It was not much different to all new BMW twins. I'm sure otherbikes are easier but as someone who never has ridden for than 6000 miles in a year the maintenance sched of the Ducati ST3 seems just right.
 

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st2lemans said:
Easy, the one I have now!

2-valve, 90RWHP, 20kg lighter than OEM, improved lighting and electrics, Ohlins rear, Ohlins/RaceTech/Showa front, clipons, rearsets, slipper clutch, etc. Can't think of anything else I'd change.

Though, if they made hard-bags for my SS1000, I'd get rid of the ST2!

Tom
Nice set up. Sounds like your sport tour machine would be great either in the canyons or at the track and on a long trip. Reminds me of a story. I was on a group ride in 04 in an area that has by far the best twisties in Northern California. I was in the lead approaching the best stretch of road when suddenly some dude on a sport tour complete with bags and textile "Beemer" suit ripped by me at high speed. I wasn't going that fast at the time and I just shrugged my shoulders. But, I then realized he was kind of doing a in your face maneuver so I throttled up to catch him. I eventually did because I knew the road better than he did but I was amazed on how well his bike handled. Kind of funny watching him with the bags and all. Got to the end of the good road and pulled over, so did he. He took off his Roof helmet (yuk) and there was a late 50 something guy and he was all smiles, he was impressed with the road. I realized then he was on one of those Multi-Strada relatives, a Cagiva Grand Canyon. The bags were battered (both sides) from crashing and so was his textile suit. The guy drove 3 1/2 hours to experience the road, what a trippy dude. But the point is those damn Sport Tour machines can rip, especially one that is set up right. I think you can have the best of both worlds with an ST.
 

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Wouldn't anyone care for the ceramic composite brakes ?


st2lemans said:
Easy, the one I have now!

2-valve, 90RWHP, 20kg lighter than OEM, improved lighting and electrics, Ohlins rear, Ohlins/RaceTech/Showa front, clipons, rearsets, slipper clutch, etc. Can't think of anything else I'd change.

Though, if they made hard-bags for my SS1000, I'd get rid of the ST2!

Tom
 

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For most a sport tourer would not need big power but just long mile comfort and some convenience features and good looks. Other make got that covered but I bought a Ducati sport tourer because I wanted performance. I can't ride modern sport bikes for more than an hour or so - too uncomfortable. I love my ST4s but if Ducati reissues this bike I certainly wouldn't mind more power. 1200cc is fine but not if it brings with it a weight penalty. the S4Rs 998 motor will do just fine. Don't worry about keeping up with Japanese or German engine sizes, I don't want a Kawasaki or BMW anyway. 4-valves and even 12K intervals would be nice. I'd love to have 140 or even 150hp and I'd like the overall package to be a bit smaller and more narrow. Ditch the computer gizmos, please! Too many people have problems and I have a friend who is on his third dash unit! Analog please. If your going to still have LCD, then may I have a gear indicator, and either a fuel gauge that works or none at all (seriously). Lot's of adjustability in the bars. A headlight system that doesn't make people tell you that you have a headlight out! (hate the left/right thing). New bodywork must provide better control of the wind, especially with a passenger. I get terrible side to side buffeting at highway speeds. Just ride the bike a lot before fixing the bodywork design. If it could look like a 916 and have a clever bag mount system that is practically invisible when not in use, that would be great. Otherwise, don't change a thing. When my ST4s wears out in a few years, I would gladly buy another.
 

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1200cc? Not on a twin, no thanks. Wouldn't mind maybe punching out the slugs to 98mm like the 1078 kits Bucci and others offer. Fuel economy/fuel range are important to me and I sure don't want a 7 gal fuel tank which would result in more mass and higher center of gravity.

Self cancelling blinkers, heated grips, etc? Not interested. I installed my own heated grips and frankly I think the after market offers better options for such items than do factory heated grips like those offered on BMW's that are basically barely on or roasting hot, nothing in between. The Symtec kit is what, $30 and 90 minutes to install? Works for me. I know how to push a button to turn off blinker, I don't need a gadget to do it for me. Frankly if you like that junk, check the Yamaha FJR1300AE...more gadgets than a Winnebego and nearly the same size and mass!

A lighter ST? Lighter is almost always better and certainly I've been taking steps toward reducing mass. The bike is already the lightest in class by a good margin, any lighter and I suspect some may complain of crosswind stability; already one of the few weaknesses of bike.

Long belt and valve check intervals. The 12k belt thing really bothers me, although the belts are relatively cheap and ultra simple to install. Not a huge issue, just don't understand why cars get 75k+ miles on belts used to drive their cams and Ducati can't get more than 12k. Heck even belts used to drive rear wheel on 800lbs cruiser usually last 30k miles and their subject to all sorts of road debris and much higher torque loads. Valve check intervals are more driven by CYA policies and smog emissions, mine have gone 18-24k between needing adjustment on my ST3.

My wish list for changes to ST:

1. - Undertail or stubby Moto GP style exhaust that would provide improved cornering clearence and no remounting when mounting/dismounting panniers and brackets.

2. - A redesigned centerstand that provides MUCH better cornering clearence than current unit. Alternatively, a quick-release for centerstand where unit could be stored under seat when not needed, but on occasion of needing it, I can pop seat and install it in under 60 seconds.

2. - A MUCH simpler bag attachment system that doesn't require touching exhaust cans, turn signals and looks a whole lot better when bags are not mounted but brackets are.

3. - Eliminate ABS altogether or if you must, provide as an option only**.

4. - Punch out valves on ST3 motor. There is no reason for 34mm intakes which limit power and top-end breathing in order to not encroach on ST4s power figures and sales. The narrow angle valve heads should allow 38mm intakes and at least 42mm exhaust netting at least 125hp and at least 10k rpm of usable revs...all in a simpler, lighter and smoother 3V engine design

5. - Go back to smaller, smoother, rounder body lines of pre-'04 fairing, including lower windscreen. Use projector beam HID lighting, vertically stacked ala 749/999 to maintain family resemblence. Also use 749/999 instrument assembly. This would reduce costs (the MTS would also share this instrument assembly) and reinforces the narrow, svelte lines of the Ducati.

6. - Offer an "S" version with Ohlins forks, 4-pad Brembo brakes, Brembo Radial GP master cylinder from Sbk, carbon fiber huggers and belt covers like MTS1000s, a higher lift cam, larger ports, manifold and header, 54mm throttle bodies, free breathing exhaust, forged Marchesini aluminum wheels and carbon fiber bags. Charge maybe a $5k premium for the whole package making the ST3 retail at $12,500USD, the ST3s at $17,500. I'd guess ST3 w/1078cc and larger valves as noted above will provide 125hp, certainly competitive with Sprint ST in a lighter, better handling package. An ST3s would maybe be 10lbs lighter, primarily due to wheels, but could add 12-15 more hp which would approach FJR power in a package that is 150 lbs lighter and FAR more responsive and better handling.

** On 2nd thought, junk the ABS option. Only pussies need ABS and their all riding Beemers, Goldwings and FJR's.

Take care.
 

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John said:
I want a bike that mimics my 916 in performance, but doesn't kill your body parts in the process.
Hey, I went from a 916 (1994) to an ST3 (2005 MY) - it has as good if not better performance as the 916. And I can tell you, the services on the ST3 ARE cheaper than for the 916. I luv the style of the 916, but for longer rides the ST3 wins.

I miss the 916, but make up for it with my Ducati in-line 4 (aka MV F4) :) :)

Doc
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What is your dream ST?

:) Hey Big Mac guy!!!!!!!! You got it baby!!!!! Siign me up for a red one!!!!!
That is the best info I have heard on this site. I would not change a thing about your bike.
You HAVE TO get the message to the Duke of Cati now. I'm serious. This thing is a WINNER!!!!!
 

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Great ideas here. So timely for me too! I just got a fax from some young gal from South Africa. The family fortune has been threatened and she's afraid that the murder of her family would be tantamount to extinction. I have to agree with that. All they need is a temporary US bank account to deposit their 45.5 million, and get this, they will repay my kindness with 20% !!! My hands were shaking as I did the math. If I have to put my own Testastretta engine in a ST I'm gonna do it!
 

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JasperST4 said:
Great ideas here. So timely for me too! I just got a fax from some young gal from South Africa. The family fortune has been threatened and she's afraid that the murder of her family would be tantamount to extinction. I have to agree with that. All they need is a temporary US bank account to deposit their 45.5 million, and get this, they will repay my kindness with 20% !!! My hands were shaking as I did the math. If I have to put my own Testastretta engine in a ST I'm gonna do it!
Hi Jasper
Please don't DON'T act upon this, its one of the biggest scams coming from Africa (this scam originated in Nigeria). The next thing is they ask you for US$ to secure the funds, as there is some admin fee involved to release the 45million. There is no easy money, besides taking chance with a national lottery.

Cheers
Richard
 

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I have to agree with the valve check/adjustment intervals and the 2-yrs/12k miles for the belts being extended. I also can't stand the pannier bracket set-up. Other than this, I like the STxR idea. I's have it similar to some of my own modifications on my bike with others thrown in:

1) Rear seat cowling
2) clip-ons
3) lower windshield
4) adjustable rearsets
5) Ohlins front and rear suspensions
6) under-seat or high-mount exhausts

I'd love to have a high-mount exhaust for my bike. Here are a couple of pictures of a bike from somewhere in Europe with a custom, high-mount exhaust.
 

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richardtl said:
Hi Jasper
Please don't DON'T act upon this, its one of the biggest scams coming from Africa (this scam originated in Nigeria). The next thing is they ask you for US$ to secure the funds, as there is some admin fee involved to release the 45million. There is no easy money, besides taking chance with a national lottery.

Cheers
Richard
I think his tongue is firmly planted in his cheek ;)
 
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