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Yup yup .... :)

... back when men were men and rode 500 pound motorcycles that didn't have computers making all of their mistakes just go away .... no participation trophies handed out there.

Talk about LUST. GIMME SUMMA THIS RIGHT CHYEER!! ELBOWS UP AND BALLS OUT!


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Man's motuh sickle .... 750cc two stroke (Yamaha TZ750) .... check your engine computer, throttle by wire, and yer Midol at the pit gate. Don't forget the Turbo Blue fuel and Yamalube premix!
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I’m way past giving a shit what my friends see me on. 🤣

My friends are wanting to start an under 50 club. Ride around downtown on tiny, silly bikes. It started with one acquiring an RV50.
 
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Yup yup .... :)

... back when men were men and rode 500 pound motorcycles that didn't have computers making all of their mistakes just go away .... no participation trophies handed out there.
Rex, I'm going to start by saying I love you man... really do. You speak from the heart, typically without malice or agenda, and you've got nothing but respect from me.

Now that we have that out of the way, let me ask you... Would you rather get into a firefight with this:


Or this:


Reason for asking is because these are perfectly analogous to what you are espousing... There is simply no way on god's green earth that one of those dinosaurs is going to perform anywhere within sniffing distance of the machines of today.

Maybe it's just me, but there is a massive difference between 1980's state of the art, and that of today. I'll stick to admiring the 80's state of the art from afar...
 

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HA! Don't even try it man. That analogy is nonsense. This thread is 100% about lust ... lust does not embrace reason .... because it's lust. You've forgotten your youth, that ornery asshole that was going to live forever and could ride any bike faster than anyone, and lusted after hot women and fast bikes. What I mean is, you've become comfortable in your comfortable rut. You like your computer assisted stuff, modern European motorcycles and all of that, which is actually just fine, but that paradigm is not for me. :)

Not only that .... I don't give two shits about what kind of bikes are (ahem) "better" .... I love those old 80s machines, and nothing anyone is ever going to say will change that. I mean, think about this seriously ... does anyone really believe that after presenting some arguments of one sort or another that I'll stroke my chin in deep thought and ruminate out loud that I'll never love those bikes again? That's just not a serious notion, and serious people don't think like that. The things that I love about those bikes don't necessarily make them measurably "better" than a modern bike ... but none of that matters, does it! This is about lust, not reason. If we're going to rationalize this, it's no longer about lust.

I will continue to love those old racing machines .... there was serious challenge in racing them ... it took talent and nerve, and imagination to not only ride one of them in a competitive manner, but to build the damned thing as well. Today, it's got little (or nothing) to do with fabrication skills or inventiveness, it's all about ~credit rating~ .... throw money at it in the form of bolt-on quickness. Buy a nearly race ready 85% race bike at the dealer, throw a few more thousand dollars at it, and you're Johnny Go Faster. Those older bikes harken back to a day when you at least had to know how to use a godammed hacksaw, do layout, and have (at minimum) some O2/C2H2 brazing skills as well. Those old things were never ever designed or intended to be on any race track that had anything even resembling a curve, but with some good old garage privateer level imagination and vocational skills (no longer taught in our public schools, by the way) and one hell of a lot of faith in themselves those guys made those bikes work. Well, sortof. The fact that they were wobble monsters made them rather ... noteworthy. Pucker factor level 10 type of noteworthy. ;)

The fact that the older (1990s) 2v Ducatis are SO easily modified by shadetree mechanics like myself is a huge part of what attracts me to them. Welded steel tube frames, simple suspension systems, air cooled two valve carbureted engines, computerless engine and brake management (aka "manual" ... aka "the rider makes all the decisions"). Very appealing indeed! Same reasons I'm attracted to the ST2 and 2v Monsters.

I don't need a reason to love those old bikes, do I (that's not a question, it's a statement). My reason is ... CUZ I DO. If ~reason~ and ~cognitive alignment with cause and effect~ were to applied to motorcycles.... we would never allow anyone to ever ride one, let alone own one (motorcycles should be included in the 2nd Amendment .... I do not want the gubment fuckin' with my motorcycles! ... get the wrong ones in power and they'll ban them to save us from ourselves!). Love of motorcycling is not about "reason" .... it's about thrill, challenge, escapism, freedom, LUST. The moment you apply "reason" to motorcycling a cognitive dissonance sets in since it's not "reasonable" to ride one of the damned things in the first place. So an attempt to appeal to me using the "reasoning" of comparing a 100 year old clip-fed rifle to a modern magazine-fed semi auto is silly. It's silly because riding a motorcycle isn't a reasonable act in the first place.

(And just to get it said, I'll take that older rifle over the hot rodded .223/5.56mm caliber semi in heavy brush and long open shots such as various deserts as well as entry team cover ... the heavier caliber of the older rifle is deeply useful for penetrating cover, penetrating heavy brush, penetrating body armor, and better accuracy for longer distance shots as well as FAR more power at longer distances ... the little hot rod rifle runs out of ~poop~ at about 1/2 the range of the older rifle while the old rifle is still very effective at longer ranges which reach far beyond the maximum effective range of the little assault rifle.. Not only that, the old rifle makes a MUCH better weapon during CQB .. aka close quarter battle .. when the rifle is used more like a bat with a fixed bayonet rather than a firearm, it's tough and highly durable compared to the plastic high tech shit on the Christmas Tree rifle with all the bells and whistles on it which will fall off of it the first time you have to use it as a defensive tool in a "hand to hand" fight for your life ... so you see, even OLD SHIT has the advantage! "Proper tool for the job", and all of that bla bla bla. I would know, I've seen a lot of TV shows and movies). ;)

Sure, you may beat me down the mountain on a modern bike, but I don't care (in fact, who cares?). I'll still have a stupid shit eating grin ear to ear when I pull my helmet off. I've already proven myself to myself .. I don't need a modern computer assisted muscle-cycle to prove anything to myself, or to have fun on a motorcycle. I ride motorcycles for the visceral pump of adrenaline, the thrill of pushing the bike and myself to it's limits (and on public roads, that's not very fast, so it makes ZERO sense to me to own a 200mph capable motorcycle). I've had more fun on a 500 pound 40 HP Sportster than I ever did on a (for the time) modern Japanese inline 4 wonder motorcycle. Simple as a skateboard and ten times as fun. As has been said by others many times ... it's more fun to ride a slow bike ~fast~ than it is to ride a fast bike fast. Why? Challenge. And it's ~challenging~ without having to go 150mph to challenge the rider and bike. But, there I go attempting to apply reason to motorcycles again ... see how it just doesn't work?

It's all about passion, love, freedom of expression, challenging the laws of physics, and challenging one's self. The moment you attempt to apply reason to motorcycling you've forgotten the plot.

:)
 

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You've forgotten your youth, that ornery asshole that was going to live forever and could ride any bike faster than anyone, and lusted after hot women and fast bikes.
A: I've not forgotten my youth because I've never stopped living it.
B: I was never an ornery asshole.
C: I was never under any illusion that I was going to live any longer than until my luck ran out. I've been racing performance sailboats since I was 10. Want to feel completely powerless and small? Spend some time in/on the ocean, especially when it's "angry".
D: I can neither confirm nor deny that I've lusted after hot women. However, I've been married to the same woman for 38 years, and we've known each other since high school. Oh... and she was then and is now, a total smokeshow. I always knew I was fighting WAY above my weight class with her.

What I mean is, you've become comfortable in your comfortable rut. You like your computer assisted stuff, modern European motorcycles and all of that, which is actually just fine, but that paradigm is not for me...

...The things that I love about those bikes don't necessarily make them measurably "better" than a modern bike ... but none of that matters, does it! This is about lust, not reason. If we're going to rationalize this, it's no longer about lust.
Trust me... I'm not in any rut... comfortable or otherwise. I've been fortunate to have been able to work in a field that I am passionate about for 38 years now. And it's a field that is changing, constantly, almost daily, and that suits me just fine. Every day, our design tools get better... every day our manufacturing technologies improve... every day our material science progresses. For an engineer who is totally enamored with engineering, these are some fucking amazing times.

It is the appreciation of the complexity of the solution that makes an object lustworthy to me. One look at a Panigale V4R with it's clothes off gives gives me a pretty good stiffy. Lust for me, at least with these things, is completely, rationally driven... I lust for the technically sweet solution.

(And just to get it said, I'll take that older rifle over the hot rodded .223/5.56mm caliber semi in heavy brush and long open shots such as various deserts as well as entry team cover ... the heavier caliber of the older rifle is deeply useful for penetrating cover, penetrating heavy brush, penetrating body armor, and better accuracy for longer distance shots as well as FAR more power at longer distances ... the little hot rod rifle runs out of ~poop~ at about 1/2 the range of the older rifle while the old rifle is still very effective at longer ranges which reach far beyond the maximum effective range of the little assault rifle..
Rex... that "hot rodded" 5.56 is nothing of the sort. I presented an example of two rifles of the same caliber... both are 7.62x51, however the Garand was capable of firing the 63mm 30.06. The point was that the difference between 1940's state of the art and state of the art 2020 yields a machine that is similar to the one that preceeded it only by virtue of the fact that they fire the same projectile. By every other conceivable metric, the SCAR MK17 performs at a level unimaginable to those who used the M1 Garand.

It's the same with those 80's bikes.
 

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If you can’t have fun riding a Super Cub, then you’ve got a problem. I’ve got plenty of penile compensation with my Multi. I’d love to have a tiny bike.
Scooters are portable bar stools, at least for me. No better way to go day drinking than on a scooter. And a big enough trunk to stop at the grocery store to pick up a steak and a 1.75 of Jack Daniels for dinner. Laughing like a kid all day long.
 
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Again .... raw ... minimal ... no flippin flappin computer ... man + engine + wheels. Perfect.

Also my favorite Ducati rear suspension system. I just love the sortof Rube Goldberg levers and rockers thing going on, and it's more visible than other Ducati rear suspension systems.

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(below) Yea, see here? I really get off on the way that type of system is such wonderful eye candy. I reckon it's also plenty effective as well. I mean, let's face it ... few (if any) of us are racing for championships around here. I highly doubt that very many of us could even tell the difference between the various designs, at least it wouldn't show up on any of our lap times (I'll put it that way). Even if it did there are no racetracks within a six hour drive anyhow. In any case ... don't care.

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(below ... and just to see if the sound of a thousand buttholes snapping shut can be heard from the anti-fans):

"Harley's ain't got no lean angle!" ...... uh huh. On DOTs no less. Sure looks like a blast to me.
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Fun. Begins and ends right there, doesn't it!

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"But I'll beat you down the mountain with my wunderbike!" ...... so what. Is there a trophy? A kiss from the trophy girl? Prize money? Nope, nope, and nope. It's all about whatever makes your heart beat a little faster. At least that's how I see it. If you're into modern computer controlled bikes with all of the fancy dehoytments and bazzidles and ringydingers ... great! ... tear it up! ... go for it! I don't want to work that hard (or pay that much), I prefer them simple. Maybe because it takes me back to a time when life was more innocent and less complicated. Who knows. Get on your bikes and ride!

:)
 

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...Also my favorite Ducati rear suspension system. I just love the sortof Rube Goldberg levers and rockers thing going on, and it's more visible than other Ducati rear suspension systems...
I'm not positive, but that may have been Ducati's first foray into rising rate/progressive rate suspension, e.g., similar to Honda's Pro-Link, Suzuki's Full Floater, etc, the goal being to isolate the chassis from forces generated by the rear suspension. This was accomplished by isolating the shock/damper unit from the chassis:
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The shock/damper is mounted to the swingarm at the bottom, and to the end of a bell crank at the top. As the suspension compresses, the angle between the bell crank and the connecting rods is reduced, which produces a progressive rate of compression.
 

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If I was going to buy a motorcycle, I’d be looking at KTM 390 or 690 or a Thruxton.
Whatever I bought would have to fit my short inseam, no tippy toe BS.
 

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A: I've not forgotten my youth because I've never stopped living it.
B: I was never an ornery asshole.
C: I was never under any illusion that I was going to live any longer than until my luck ran out. I've been racing performance sailboats since I was 10. Want to feel completely powerless and small? Spend some time in/on the ocean, especially when it's "angry".
D: I can neither confirm nor deny that I've lusted after hot women. However, I've been married to the same woman for 38 years, and we've known each other since high school. Oh... and she was then and is now, a total smokeshow. I always knew I was fighting WAY above my weight class with her.


Trust me... I'm not in any rut... comfortable or otherwise. I've been fortunate to have been able to work in a field that I am passionate about for 38 years now. And it's a field that is changing, constantly, almost daily, and that suits me just fine. Every day, our design tools get better... every day our manufacturing technologies improve... every day our material science progresses. For an engineer who is totally enamored with engineering, these are some fucking amazing times.

It is the appreciation of the complexity of the solution that makes an object lustworthy to me. One look at a Panigale V4R with it's clothes off gives gives me a pretty good stiffy. Lust for me, at least with these things, is completely, rationally driven... I lust for the technically sweet solution.


Rex... that "hot rodded" 5.56 is nothing of the sort. I presented an example of two rifles of the same caliber... both are 7.62x51, however the Garand was capable of firing the 63mm 30.06. The point was that the difference between 1940's state of the art and state of the art 2020 yields a machine that is similar to the one that preceeded it only by virtue of the fact that they fire the same projectile. By every other conceivable metric, the SCAR MK17 performs at a level unimaginable to those who used the M1 Garand.

It's the same with those 80's bikes.
All good....but I'm with Rex on this one: the heart wants what the heart wants. If we're lucky the big head maintains just enough control to exercise right of veto over the lil' head, but it's not a given.

There is no right or wrong. There are Nissan GTR type people and there are Yenko/COPO Camaro type people. The GTR is "better" by probably every performance measure.....but I'd still take the Yenko every day of the week. So there must be some important criteria that it meets that the GTR doesn't.

So what are the criteria? It's completely personal, but basically it's just whatever makes you feel good, isn't it? Sheer performance may be everything in your considerations....or might only be a small component. A GTR/V4R is good for bugger-all if you like getting your hands dirty. I wander into my shed and see a V4R sitting there I can acknowledge that it is an awesome thing....but it is a crap bike if you like tinkering. I spend far more time playing in the shed than I do riding, so what good is it too me? It's not "my" bike, it's some Italian/German design committee's, it is exactly the same as 1500(?) others and buying it might be fun, but it provides none of the satisfaction I get from building something "lesser". And I don't admire Audi/Ducati for building it the same way I admire the folks who built the bikes Rex posted.

Proph's comparison above: What if the feeling of walnut against your cheek, the smell of linseed oil in your nostrils transports you right back to your childhood and special time out in nature with your old man? What if your father/grandfather was an infantryman in WWll and you appreciate the significance/continuum of owning/using "his" weapon? By these measures a modern weapon fails miserably.

I grew up admiring not just the local heroes racing, but also the bikes that were built for them. Graeme Crosby's Moriwaki ZIR was cool, but the home-brewed Steve Roberts built monocoque Suzuki's (1 x aluminium and 1 x carbon fibre) and Ken McIntosh special took things to a whole new level, inspirational stuff to a young lad in the early 80's.

Roberts' ally monocoque Suzuki, shock under tension under the engine (tension makes for much lighter linkages than compression), 3rd in World F1 championship 1982:
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Ken McIntosh framed F1 Suzuki, with the late great Roger Freeth aboard:
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As much as I wanted to be one of those racing gods I wanted to build one of those incredible machines just as badly.

Of course I've never come close, but I still like building.....something.

I think we all appreciate engineering, it is just what aspects appeal that differs. The engineering in electric bikes is amazing, but they leave me cold. I don't commute, I don't tour, I don't take pillions....I ride purely for enjoyment, so I'm looking to engage as many senses as possible....and an electric bike is quite limiting in that regard. Faster/slower has nothing to do with it. Which explains Harleys: for better or worse they are a sensory overload. Jeremy Clarkson (Top Gear/The Grand Tour) tried to explain his affection for a Lamborghini vs a McLaren in one of their comparo's: he couldn't give a rat's that the McLaren was faster ("better") he just loved the "theatre" and "drama" associated with the Lambo. Gimme that theatre and drama any day over cold hard efficiency.
 

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There are only fifty four of these being made. Hence the name ... CB1100RS 5Four. That fuel tank is absolutely lovely. So trick. Very much lovin on them forks as well. There is still plenty of room left for more uprates as well.

"What's in YOUR wallet?" .... "not a got-damned thing, I ride motorcycles."

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A MotoAmerica Superbike choice of mine ... "lust" .. remember?

So the eyes go along, taking in the color, the design, the fact that fairings seem to be getting more and more abbreviated on "fully faired" sportbikes these days, the way the exhaust looks .... SWINGARM!!! ... the way that the tailpiece flows ..... SWINGIN DAMN ARM!!! .... and of course the gorgeous way that the rear brake caliper catches fire .... SWIIIIIIIIING ARM! ..... (2020 Yamaha R1M, MotoAmerica Superbike).

:)

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NOOOOO!!!!!!! Don't use that chemical extinguisher without at least trying a C02 extinguisher! That white powdered chemo shit is gonna git all over EVERYTHING! ARRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

Check the Smokey Yunick lookin' dude wearing the black hat in the background ... "oh man, that dumshit is about to make a big ol mess"

:)
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Last entry for today .... another episode of;

I'D RIDE THAT!

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I'D RIDE THAT!
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I'D RIDE THE HELL OUT OF THAT!
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I always wanted this unique bike: Yamaha MT-01. Redline of 5500 rpm. A well tuned model with a flashed ECU makes about 105 hp with a whopping120 ft lbs of torque. No, it's not a Buell for people who hate Harleys, it's something else. Sold from 2005 to 2012 around the world but never in the United States. For a while I had a Yamaha Warrior power cruiser with the same motor. Liked the motor but didn't like the riding position. What I really wanted was this bike.

 

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I always wanted this unique bike: Yamaha MT-01. Redline of 5500 rpm. A well tuned model with a flashed ECU makes about 105 hp with a whopping120 ft lbs of torque. No, it's not a Buell for people who hate Harleys, it's something else. Sold from 2005 to 2012 around the world but never in the United States. For a while I had a Yamaha Warrior power cruiser with the same motor. Liked the motor but didn't like the riding position. What I really wanted was this bike.

Oh hell no. This is SICK ASS!!!!!! Never seen one, ever, until this.

Speaking of Teh Yamaha ... I see they've brought the V-Max back. I've always liked the original version much better than the second version, which was this frigiin GIGANTIC MOTORCYCLE. I felt like an eight year old sitting on Dad's Triumph or something when on that thing.

Dang man ... that MT-01 is really nice, at least at first glance and face value. I'm not sure if this version of the Yamaha FZ-1 ever made it stateside, but it's another neat model by them (below).

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If I had my druthers I'd prefer it in the yellow/black livery circa 1970s Kenny Roberts rather than the red/white colors. I also prefer the black-on-white "speed blocks" over the way the above bike's color details and red-on-white lines are.
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... sideways with the front wheel in the air ..... the yellow/black livery automatically makes you faster .... and everyone knows that .... it's just common sense. (haahaa!).
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While replying to another thread I went digging around for pictures of older endurance racing bikes and found a few that got me all lusty.

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Check that crazy rear suspension setup on this Honda CB endurance bike.
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I've seen some modified Honda Goldwings before ... but this ... this is ... this is a Honda ... with a red frame ... and it has two wheels. (what!?? I can't think of anything else about it without being rude).
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