[zektiv]

Hey guys,

Did some searching on this forum and on the Googs, and still felt like I needed to ask about the vibes on my ds1000 ss. It's an 06, about 5k miles on it. Previous owner claims all the services were done, and the bike is in immaculate condition so I've got no reason to believe he didn't. Here's what I'm feeling, more or less...

At 4-6k rpm she vibes quite a bit. If I lay off the throttle at 6ish she smooths out somewhat, but get on the throttle again and there's mirror-blurring vibe. If I open it up and flog her a little, there's no shortage of vibes... my hands and even my arms get kind of numb. This is riding harder, pushing rpms to the high end before shifting. Oh yeah, and 6th gear hates if I'm under 6k rpm. Doesn't chug, per se, but certainly smooths out quite a bit once I'm higher up in the range. Still vibes noticeably though.

I've had many twins: a monster 620, an RC51, and even an old Buell xb9, so I'm no stranger to twins and vibes. I just feel like it should maybe be smoother? Am I crazy? I'm also coming off a late-model RSV4 that was buttery smooth to a fault so maybe my expectations are off. I don't have another SS nearby to 'compare', so I suppose I just want some kind of verification that these motors do have a pretty vibey profile and that's what I gotta learn to live with. I've read about countless possible sources for vibration on these motors; I feel like I'm doing the "I'm sick so I'm gonna check on webMD and omfg I'm dying of a rare african disease..." thing.

It doesn't have bar-ends or anything (seems to have stock plastic plugs but no bar-ends), so that's an option I can probably explore to mitigate the vibes. Any advice, thoughts, encouragement, etc would be much appreciated! I'm pretty anxious about owning another duc, since my last one was a bit unreliable and kind of a pain in the butt.

On a bit of an aside (but I don't want to fire up another thread about it), when I go to full lock to either side my hand doesn't fit between the grip and the mirror. Is this some kind of ducati thing? Like, only plebes make u-turns, why would you ever go to full lock?

Anyway, thank you all in advance - I hope to become a contributor rather than just a consumer in this community once I've wrapped my head around this bike and her quirks.

 

[Monster4Lee]

omfg, you're dying of a rare Italian disease. :laugh:

Not sure about the bike. More revs?

 

[spacey]

The low speed turning radius on these bikes sucks. Have you tried to raise/lower the clip-ons to avoid hitting the mirrors.

 

[avocet]

Lol I describe riding my bike to my inline 4 riding buddies as a very fast tractor. Once they ride it they agree.

Changing your gearing should help. And setting up your trims/TB balance/TPS should help too.

 

[duc96cr]

I ride several motorcycles with various engine types and characteristics. Sometimes I notice an engine or bike characteristic more depending on what I last rode. That could be some of the problem. I’m not familiar with the 1000, though I’ve ridden them before and didn’t notice the vibration. Some things you should check : torque your motor mounts and footpeg mounts to spec, check your throttle bodies are in synch, check chain tension and chain and sprocket condition. Some things that might improve the situation: drop a tooth on the countershaft, buy some new grips, bar end weights, a complete tune up, new plugs, new chain and sprockets.
Have someone familiar with the engine ride the bike and give you an opinion. My 900 has an unhappy spot in the rev range, but it’s a narrow rpm band that I go right through without notice.

 

[duc96cr]

Try a different brand of fuel. Use some injection cleaner.

 

[SalkinSalkin]

Felt vibration is probably subjective, but on my 2002 900SSie I get a lot of vibration if I’m not gentle on the throttle at and below 3000 rpm. At around 3500-3800 it smoothes out and it definitely pulls clean from 4000 and upwards.

I’m went up 3 teeth on the rear sprocket, but it was not much different with stock gearing.

But overall, I would not characterise it as a smooth bike, just vibey at low rpm any less vibey at higher rpm.

I have never felt it so much as I get a numb feeling, and I ride a lot in the 3000-4000 rpm range.

 

[ducvet]

Already covered but another vote for ....


chain and sprockets (tension or bad link)
something loose.
fueling- a overly rich motor vibrates.

I do not find these bikes to vibrate much but it is subjective, have someone familiar with the bikes give it a ride. I do occasionally see stock motors that are not in balance as much as the average, but you want to make sure there is not something else wrong before it does harm (like a too tight chain).

 

[bradblack]

does it have std mufflers? they were often smoother with aftermarket. possibly due to the weight difference as well as the freer flow.

 

[jooced]

What color are the porcelains on the plugs? Lean mixtures will cause high freq vibration....

 

[duc96cr]

Are you still tuned in , zektiv, or are we pissing in the wind here ?

 

[zektiv]

Are you still tuned in , zektiv, or are we pissing in the wind here ?

Still tuned in, sorry! I'm usually more active but work has been taking a huge toll on my time and this forum acts funny on my phone so I need to sit in front of a 'puter to get on it. My apologies to those that posted in and wondered where I'd gone off to.

Been slowly working my way through some of the suggestions, and the situation has improved somewhat (or I'm just getting used to her lol.)

Changed out the clutch. When I first got the bike it felt like it might've been the teensiest bit slippy when I cranked the throttle. Now, after some time, it was definitely slipping at highway speeds and then started to slip off the line. Once I put a new clutch pack in, wow, what a difference - felt like a whole new bike with power all over the damn place. The vibes are still there but it's definitely delivering power more smoothly, and that mitigates the vibes somewhat. Incidentally, turns out the previous owner had installed a Yoyodyne slipper clutch (surprise!)

I'm having a b*tch of a time with cold starts. Cold is a relative term - I live in Florida so it's not cold. In fact, it's pretty hot all the time lol. My RC51 (another big twin motor) also had a fast idle lever and I *rarely* had to use it for the warm-up period (though I did have to let it warm up for 30 or so seconds before riding off). With this SS1000ds I have to let it warm up for a solid minimum of 5 minutes before I can roll out, let the temp gauge get to about 130, and even then it might still stall out if I come off the throttle. This could happen while riding at low speeds (like leaving my neighborhood) or stopping at a stop sign or light. Once I've been going for 5-10 minutes with the throttle open it'll stay on, but the idle is kind of irregular like it's just on the verge of stalling out. Right now it seems to be idling by bouncing between 500 and 750 rpm. The bike runs rich (exhaust smells gassy) which (I'm told) is desirable (I guess? My Speed Triple ran rich and shot flames out the pipe - a super cool feature but efficient it most certainly was not).

I've had three large displacement twins (Buell XB9 Lightning, Honda RC51, and now this one) so this is where I'm drawing comparisons and experience from. My last Duc (an '02 Monster 620) was incredibly smooth and fun as hell to ride, but maybe that's because it was relatively small displacement?

My next step is to inspect the spark plugs (I'll probably just replace 'em all anyway, I'm sure they're still the originals). I spoke with a local tech (super nice guy) who suggested that I change out the belts as well - I may be experiencing a timing issue. I'm doing a few things myself then I'll probably hand it off to him (he's got a ton of experience on the 2v motor) to 'check out' and see what sticks out to him. She's got 6k miles on the clock so it may also be time to check the valves.

All told, though, I love this thing and I'm willing to put the time and effort into putting everything right and up to spec. I sincerely appreciate your opinions and advice - and again, I apologize for ghosting!

 

[FredSmoot23]

vibey....

how about synching the carbs?

Fred

 

[duc96cr]

That would be a good idea too.

 

[zektiv]

how about synching the carbs?

Fred

So that's an interesting suggestion. Please, by all means correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought syncing was only necessary for carbureted bikes - EFI bikes have throttle positioning sensors or whatnot and no longer require it? I might be wrong - I'm not overly technical - I'm just looking for confirmation. Makes some sense as this bike isn't throttle-by-wire or anything fancy like that.

I synced the carbs on my old VFR to get rid of some rough running and vibrations, and my buddy's old CBR (also carbureted) was synced to get rid of vibes (super effective in that case). I suppose that could be another solution I could explore?

Thank you!!!

 

[orionengnr]

You are partially correct. But throttle bodies can be out of sync, too (one is open a hair more than the other at idle and consequently throughout the rev range), and there is an air screw (or equivalent) that is mostly relevant at and just off-idle.

I have no experience with the 620, but have owned air-cooled Ducatis in 696, 803, 904 and 992cc, and liquid cooled Ducatis in 996, 998 and 1200cc. Coming from everything from two-stroke singles to flat sixes, (but in the last thirty years, mostly inline fours and the occasional V4) I don't find any of the Ducati engines objectionable or even, honestly, noticeable in terms of vibration. My S2R (air cooled 992cc) was not all that different from the RC51 in terms of vibes (obviously, the latter made more power and revved more quickly, and the riding position was different...but the engine character wasn't all that much different). If yours is noticeably more vibey, there is more to it, I think.

There is the possibility that I am somewhat less sensitive to such things...but I remember earlier in my riding life having bikes that I could hardly use the mirrors due to vibes, some where my wrists/hands would become numb, and so on. None of that applies to any of the Ducatis I've owned, although several have vibrated/throbbed just a bit below 4k rpm with larger throttle openings. So I either manage the throttle a bit more gently or downshift a gear.

I am more concerned that something may be mechanically wrong with your engine. Mis-timing of cam(s) or maybe ignition (the latter being highly unlikely) or a bearing issue will all cause vibration. If it's a bearing issue, you will find out soon, and it will be costly. Better to find it and fix it first.

Edited to add--if it is a bearing issue, an oil change and cutting open the filter will probably tell all. Good luck.

Best regards, Rich

 

[ducvet]

As orionengnr one of the concerns would be a bad main bearing, I have had more than a few customers some in with bad mains and they were unaware until things started to break. On of the concerns would be the RPM's that it is vibrating at (4-6K) where if you are getting vibrations and are not at a low throttle setting sync has no effect.

I have had motors with bad mains where the pistons were hitting the heads and the customer did not pick up on it. I suggest you get it to your mechanic to have it checked for a flywheel falling off, bad mains or fueling being too far off. One of the reasons you want them to look at it is they should have seat time on that motor and know if it is normal or something is failing. If it is and it does fail you could be looking at a large bill to fix it, if not then you can go back to chasing smaller issues.

The 1000 in its stock form should vibrate no more than a 620, unless something has been changed incorrectly. At 6000 miles not much should be worn but defects do happen to all brands so you may be looking for something out of spec. This is not to say Ducati does not blow it from time to time, I have ridden some Ducatis that are out of Balance from the factory and have higher vibration than normal. A human Balanced that crank and if they let a bad one through you pay the price. If you have never ridden a well balanced ducati you do not know just how good they can be. 90% of them are very serviceable 5% are electric smooth and that last 5% stick out like a sore thumb.

Get your mechanic to see whats up while it is still the same as you describe.

 

[duc96cr]

If you check all the possibilities people have mentioned and the bike is in good tune, then maybe you should attempt to gear the bike so it does as little time as possible in the vibration range. Basically, the engine is telling you it isn’t happy in that rev range. I normally have to gear Ducatis a little lower so I spend more time above 4000 rpm.

 

[Punch]

Once I've been going for 5-10 minutes with the throttle open it'll stay on, but the idle is kind of irregular like it's just on the verge of stalling out. Right now it seems to be idling by bouncing between 500 and 750 rpm. The bike runs rich (exhaust smells gassy)

Are you saying it is idling between 500 and 750 or idle is fluctuating by 500 to 750?

Either way it may be that you need to do a TPS reset.
Lots of details here from Brad. BikeBoy.org - DucatiLinear Throttle Position Sensor setting notes for all models 08/08

Incorrect TPS will "confuse" the ECU so that the fuelling is incorrect. Also, if your model has an idle control valve an incorrect TPS may affect idling as well.
In Brad's report he mentions that for an 800 model.

TPS can be reset using free (donate please) tools such as IAWDiag and ScanST. All you need is a computer and a cable/adapter and I recommend this kit.
https://www.lonelec.co.uk/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-3pin-Interface-Cable
If you buy or borrow the cable/adapter make sure you follow the driver instructions BEFORE connecting the cable/adapter to your computer.

Don't be tempted to buy something else via Amazon or eBay as many of these will cause you communications grief.
These software options also allow you to see on your screen what the ECU is sensing and you may well see something odd there like a crazy engine or air temperature.
Here is the link to IAWDiag V0.47
GuzziDiag / IAWDiag

I would start with doing the TPS reset rather than the full TB balancing procedure as a quick option.

 

[zektiv]

So the suggestions about the bearing got me nervous, and I dropped off the bike at the mechanic this afternoon. I can take things so far but I know there's a point where it's simply best to take it to an expert.

He's a Duc tech, very experienced with the 2v motor and this model in particular. He's helped me in the past when I get myself into trouble, even on other-brand bikes, and I trust that he'll be able to ride it and see if anything sticks out.

I described the issues to him, and we'll see what he determines. I will of course share his findings!

Here's to hoping it's something uncomplicated lol. Thank you all for your suggestions and help thus far!