[abhiram]

Hi all,

Its been a rainy couple of days, so I figured I give the valve clearance check a go. Ducati's workshop manual for an s2r1k and
a few videos on YouTube gave me a great head start.

Based on ducati's specs, the bikes vertical cylinders intake opener clearance is outta spec. My bikes mileage is around 8500. Its an 07 S2R 1K.

Factory Specs Opener:

• Intake & Exhaust
• Adjusting 0.10 to 0.15mm
• Checking 0.05 to 0.15mm

Factory Specs Closer:

• Intake&Exhaust
• Adjusting 0 to 0.05mm
• Checking 0 to 0.20mm

Here are my measurements:

VC:

• Intake 0.03(Opener) 0.12 (Closer)
• Exhaust 0.12(Opener) 0.03(Closer)

HC:

• Intake 0.12(Opener) 0.06(closer)
• Exhaust 0.09(Opener) 0.04(Closer)

Whats the difference between adjusting and checking clearance? How do you folks interpret them?

 

[belter]

ignore them. opening 0.10mm, closing as close to zero as possible without drag.

if it has little opening and lots of closing it's indicative of the valve receding. lots of 1100 motors do it on the exhaust valve, but generally not the inlet.

 

[abhiram]

ignore them. opening 0.10mm, closing as close to zero as possible without drag.

if it has little opening and lots of closing it's indicative of the valve receding. lots of 1100 motors do it on the exhaust valve, but generally not the inlet.

Based on your suggestions and after looking at shim size increments (0.05?), I could go down a shim on the horizontal cylinders closer too.

I am gonna take a closer look this weekend once shims arrive. I also ordered a set of half rings as well.

So what kind of steps do folks take when they notice a receding valve? In the longer run, should I be looking at getting the valve checked by a shop?

Thanks for your input!

 

[ducvet]

Shims can be sanded as long as you keep them flat so setting 2-valve shims is one spot where I set them as a certain measurement vs in a range. Keep in mind the closer clearances are set to zero , ***without preload*** the longer the clearance lasts as well as less wear in the system. If you change 1/2 rings expect your clearances to be .03-.06mm looser shortly after you do the work. So factor the extra break in on new 1/2 rings. If the existing 1/2 rings are serviceable and you re-install them in the correct (upside/downside) orientation, they are BETTER than new 1/2 rings.

If the 1/2 rings are broken or excessively worn they need to be changed, if not you do more harm than good. If you can not read 1/2 ring wear you will be better off buying MBP collets as they should be impossible to install upside down, though I do see them installed incorrectly too.

Valve recession is normal on all engines as long as it is not excessive. You will probably not find many engines that do not wear in from the time they are built so consider it a part of break in. On a 1000 motor I would expect the heads to be broken in somewhere around 22,500 miles (third adjustment). This is normal across the range and after about that amount of miles if the valves have been taken care of we start to extend service intervals. Note: if you cut the valve seats you re-start break in on the heads so racers keep that in mind or anyone who has had valve guides changed.

Rare cases (my 851) had soft seats where they never stop sinking and you usually run it until you have no more shim options and have to change the seats. I can count on one hand the amount of bikes I have run into with that issue...... actually it was just mine:frown2:

If you are doing the work do not be lazy and set them right, the checking spec is for dealers trying to not adjust valves (more money not adjusting most of the time) or those looking to not do the work. by the fact you are there you are trying to do the job right so set them properly and the valvetrain will treat you right for many miles to come. .... YOU CAN DO IT!

We set them at .10mm intake
.13mm exhaust
closers are set to zero with no preload, very important that there is no preload. If you are not sure set them to .01mm and the wear should be minimized.

If you are not comfortable setting them , pay some one to do it AND TEACH YOU HOW. Sorry for the caps but it is always best to emphasize that it can be done and should be done right otherwise you might as well not do it in the first place.

We have faith in you. :wink2:

 

[abhiram]

Shims can be sanded as long as you keep them flat so setting 2-valve shims is one spot where I set them as a certain measurement vs in a range. Keep in mind the closer clearances are set to zero , ***without preload*** the longer the clearance lasts as well as less wear in the system. If you change 1/2 rings expect your clearances to be .03-.06mm looser shortly after you do the work. So factor the extra break in on new 1/2 rings. If the existing 1/2 rings are serviceable and you re-install them in the correct (upside/downside) orientation, they are BETTER than new 1/2 rings.

If the 1/2 rings are broken or excessively worn they need to be changed, if not you do more harm than good. If you can not read 1/2 ring wear you will be better off buying MBP collets as they should be impossible to install upside down, though I do see them installed incorrectly too.

Valve recession is normal on all engines as long as it is not excessive. You will probably not find many engines that do not wear in from the time they are built so consider it a part of break in. On a 1000 motor I would expect the heads to be broken in somewhere around 22,500 miles (third adjustment). This is normal across the range and after about that amount of miles if the valves have been taken care of we start to extend service intervals. Note: if you cut the valve seats you re-start break in on the heads so racers keep that in mind or anyone who has had valve guides changed.

Rare cases (my 851) had soft seats where they never stop sinking and you usually run it until you have no more shim options and have to change the seats. I can count on one hand the amount of bikes I have run into with that issue...... actually it was just mine:frown2:

If you are doing the work do not be lazy and set them right, the checking spec is for dealers trying to not adjust valves (more money not adjusting most of the time) or those looking to not do the work. by the fact you are there you are trying to do the job right so set them properly and the valvetrain will treat you right for many miles to come. .... YOU CAN DO IT!

We set them at .10mm intake
.13mm exhaust
closers are set to zero with no preload, very important that there is no preload. If you are not sure set them to .01mm and the wear should be minimized.

If you are not comfortable setting them , pay some one to do it AND TEACH YOU HOW. Sorry for the caps but it is always best to emphasize that it can be done and should be done right otherwise you might as well not do it in the first place.

We have faith in you. :wink2:

Thanks for this detailed response! It gave me a lot to think about and raised a few questions too.

Based on your suggestions and the fact that I can sand those shims, I can aim for a specific measurement. This makes the end goal a lot simpler.

Can you explain what preload means in this context?

I am measuring the closer clearance using the unloaded/loaded method. Once I figure out the measurements, I try to double check the closer clearance if its in the range of my feeler gauge (0.04mm is the lowest I can go) . FYI, I didn't remove the belts when I made these measurements. Oh, I also double check that the cylinders are in TDC. I go with the cam's timing marks for the horizontal cylinder and then rotate the crankshaft 270 degrees anti-clockwise for vertical.

And thanks for heads up about the half-rings, will see how they look when I go over the valves again this weekend.

The part about about the engine-breakin was quite informative, I didn't think about the valve-seat wear and the break-in process. More food for thought. Hopefully, my vertical cylinders is not a total softie!

I really like working on this bike, so I don't mind going over things a few times. Also, its not my main means of transport. So that helps haha

My humble w650 is handling that duty now

A big thanks for your optimism and looking forward to your response.

 

[ducvet]

Preload will be felt as camshaft drag, you will need the belts off to feel it. start by feeling the camshaft in the free rotation portion at TDC and there should be no drag until you bump up against the valve being lifted. You will know this when you feel it. After you make your valve adjustments rotate the cam again to feel for drag and it should feel the same if you do not have any. If you suddenly have drag on the cam double check measurements as well as 1/2 rings. Remember if you put 1 of the 2 half rings in upside down it will add .001-.002" to your changed shim and often cause preload... for a while.

Wrong measurements on closers can be made if you flex things too hard. remember there are bearings on one side of your camshaft the other rides on a oil film. You can force feeler gauges in that are pushing the camshaft more than it will be when running so always verify when you are done by a free turning cam with no drag where it should not be.

Keep in mind sanding shims is fine but you cannot sand them larger, rookie mistake........well us pro's do it too. Is to measure and decide on a shim size then adjust only to find it is too big. You sand it down only to find a small bit of grit or a upside down 1/2 ring has given a false reading and now your last correct size shim is too small. You will also some times find two shims the same size (measured) fit the 1/2 rings or valves differently so if one does not work some times you try a second even though they should be the same. Maybe it was you or maybe it was the shim who cares if it comes out right.

If you need to use new 1/2 rings just plan on adjusting them after at least 1000 miles but beyond that look at how you ride. high rpm and loose closers = beat/broken 1/2 rings. You will get good enough at this so you can check most of them pretty easy if they have not moved keep riding.

 

[abhiram]

Your description of preload was on point. Over the weekend, I took the belts out and tried to get a feel of things on the bike. I was able to rotate the cams by around 90 degrees (No preload here) .

After that I could tell that its lifting the valve (preload here)

I am guessing if I were to change the closer shims, I should be able to tell by rotating the cam in this range and see if there is a drastic change?

I also managed to swap the opener shim on the v-cyl intake opener. Now its almost at the end of the range (from 0.04 to 0.14). I should have taken the shim out and measured it, I jumped the gun and used the marking on the shim.

Live and learn.

Anyways, thanks for your input. I am beginning to appreciate working on this bike

 

[ducvet]

If you have the time and the shim to do it put a +.001"-.002" shim in on the closer and simply feel the change in preload. You may not even be able to get the +.002 installed. Slightly oversized just to feel what preload feels like is an eye opener.