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Up s**t creek, require paddle. Or help with my calipers.
So after about two hours of screwing around with my front wheel, getting it lined up with the holes in the forks and getting the speedo unit to *not* fall off, I began brake reassembly in the front. I just had to slip on the calipers and put in the brake pads.
Didn't want to work. Got the left side on (after much struggle) and could not, for the life of me, get the stupid clips on the brake pins. Is there any trick to it? I bent two of the clips wicked out of shape trying to do so.
Second caliper I noticed something. The pistons were partly out. For some reason I decided to try the front brake (with one caliper on, and one off). The result was the front brake feeling pretty loose, and the pistons staying out. I could not, for the life of me, push the pistons back in. They were these type of calipers:
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I zip tied the calipers to the forks so they would not dangle. I think there's something wrong with the calipers in the front as the front brakes dragged heavily before I took them off (could barely push it, much less push start it). I don't remember the front brake being so loose before I took them off however.
*sigh* where should I begin?
Oh, the clips I was talking about are these little buggers:
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How might one actually go about getting these on the pins?
Didn't want to work. Got the left side on (after much struggle) and could not, for the life of me, get the stupid clips on the brake pins. Is there any trick to it? I bent two of the clips wicked out of shape trying to do so.
Second caliper I noticed something. The pistons were partly out. For some reason I decided to try the front brake (with one caliper on, and one off). The result was the front brake feeling pretty loose, and the pistons staying out. I could not, for the life of me, push the pistons back in. They were these type of calipers:
I zip tied the calipers to the forks so they would not dangle. I think there's something wrong with the calipers in the front as the front brakes dragged heavily before I took them off (could barely push it, much less push start it). I don't remember the front brake being so loose before I took them off however.
*sigh* where should I begin?
Oh, the clips I was talking about are these little buggers:
How might one actually go about getting these on the pins?
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That...would be preferable to learning that my calipers were shot. The pads do rub like all hell though, and I'd like that to stop. They're not exactly new pads.
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168 Posts
I think I have the same calipers. With good firm thumb pressure they do push in, but make sure you don't overflow the reservoir (the fluid has to go somewhere). Brake fluid will ruin paint and other finishes. If the reservoir is near full before you push the pucks in you might want to take some out. I use a large syringe with a short length of vinyl tubing to suck it out.
If you can't get them to push in it's time for a rebuild.
With everything together the pads should always touch or almost touch the rotors, but they shouldn't drag enough to slow the bike.
If you can't get them to push in it's time for a rebuild.
With everything together the pads should always touch or almost touch the rotors, but they shouldn't drag enough to slow the bike.
Before putting in new pads I use an old pad over the pistons and a G clamp with some wood so as not to mark the calliper and wind the clamp to push them back.
This will push fluid back into the reservoir as mentioned in another post.
It does not hurt to polish the pins before and put on the slightest of slight smears of grease.
Also chamfering the leading edge of the friction and metal "carrier" of the pads by 1mm or so also helps.
A quick rub of the pads on concrete also helps before fitting.
When all is done remember to pump the brakes to let the pads locate properly and build up the pressure.
The wheel should spin freely with maybe a slight scrape at the outset.
Richard
This will push fluid back into the reservoir as mentioned in another post.
It does not hurt to polish the pins before and put on the slightest of slight smears of grease.
Also chamfering the leading edge of the friction and metal "carrier" of the pads by 1mm or so also helps.
A quick rub of the pads on concrete also helps before fitting.
When all is done remember to pump the brakes to let the pads locate properly and build up the pressure.
The wheel should spin freely with maybe a slight scrape at the outset.
Richard
With the pads still in take the biggest flat screwdriver you own between the pads dead center and turn the screwdriver, retracting the pads and pistons.
Take a look at your master cylinder. Make sure there is actually clearance between the pushrod attached to the lever and the cylinder. If there is no gap, it will not allow the fluid to return and will leave a small amout of pressure in the system and the brakes will drag. This is a very common problem with all brands of bikes. As said before be careful of the returning fluid. I like to wrap a big rag around the master cylinder until done.
Take a look at your master cylinder. Make sure there is actually clearance between the pushrod attached to the lever and the cylinder. If there is no gap, it will not allow the fluid to return and will leave a small amout of pressure in the system and the brakes will drag. This is a very common problem with all brands of bikes. As said before be careful of the returning fluid. I like to wrap a big rag around the master cylinder until done.
When changing pads, clean the visible part of pistons before pushing them back in. They are dirty and if you push them back in without cleaning them first, you will push the dirt into the gaskets and make the pistons stick or ruin the gaskets. Loosening the reservoir cap will help, no need to open the bleed screws. Just make sure the reservoir does not overflow as has been said earlier.
They actually look like they have good life in them/aren't excessively worn down. I'm going to try some of your guys' suggestions Tuesday and get back to you all. It's almost like the pistons aren't retracting fully because the rotors definitely rub the brakes, and apparently have since I got the bike.
Looks like $200 for new calipers.
*sigh* this thing is going to nickle and dime me to death, isn't it?
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2,504 Posts
You shouldn't need new calipers. Check out your local autoshop - they should have some stuff labelled as 'Brake Cleaner'.
Give everything on the inside of the caliper a good squirt, then pump the lever a couple of times to push the pistons out further, and give them a squirt too. Wash off as recommended on label of cleaner, and use a large screwdriver (as above) to push the pistons back in. Pump lever again to make sure ALL pistons move.
Usually, once you have all the pistons moving, the problem goes away.
Worst case scenario - you may need to get a 'caliper kit' which will (should) have all the required seals to allow you to remove, clean, and replace the pistons with new seals.
Errrrm - just a question - but when did you last replace your brake fluid? You may well want to do that too!
Give everything on the inside of the caliper a good squirt, then pump the lever a couple of times to push the pistons out further, and give them a squirt too. Wash off as recommended on label of cleaner, and use a large screwdriver (as above) to push the pistons back in. Pump lever again to make sure ALL pistons move.
Usually, once you have all the pistons moving, the problem goes away.
Worst case scenario - you may need to get a 'caliper kit' which will (should) have all the required seals to allow you to remove, clean, and replace the pistons with new seals.
Errrrm - just a question - but when did you last replace your brake fluid? You may well want to do that too!
Caliper kit? How much do those go for?
Replace brake fluid? You're supposed to do that? Are you supposed to do it in cars as well?
I understand that Brembo do not supply rebuild kits to anyone apart from KTM.
Legal reasons I think, but KTM managed to get it in their supply deal.
Therefore a KTM dealer may have the rebuild kit to suit your callipers. I have never done a caliper rebuild, but correct reassembly is critical. A mate had his Aprilia rear caliper rebuilt and it locked on in a corner.
It might be worthwhile getting it done by a brake specialist or KTN dealer.
Emphatically yes.
Brake fluid is hygroscopic (it loves to absorb water) and eventually the fluid inside the system does not work as well as it should to move the pistons so you end up with spongey brakes.
I use the body of a syringe and suck almost all the fluid out of the reservoir, then gently top it up to the max mark with new fluid trying to avoid mixing old and new. Then bleed and top up until all the old fluid is out = colour of new fluid coming out the bleed nipple.
This is not the cause of your scraping problem though.
As per my last post, I have never rebuilt callipers. My understanding is that the seal has a lip on it. When the pistons move, the lip "flips" or similar and when you release the brake the "flipped" lip pushes the piston back. Youtube and Wikipedia are your friends when learning how things work and how to do things. Check a few different vids though as not all on the internet is correct.
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8,231 Posts
You could try popping the pistons out and cleaning them as well as the calipers, that trick worked for me without a rebuild kit.
No offense meant but judging from your responses I think you should take those somewhere to be cleaned up, and then sell the bike and get something else.
No offense meant but judging from your responses I think you should take those somewhere to be cleaned up, and then sell the bike and get something else.
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6,861 Posts
When VA DUC, says clean up he means lightly polish with fine wet & dry to remove brown staining(possible rust) on the pistons, they are chromed so don't go crazy. You can also sand the inside of the caliper body. Make sure to clean the groove that the square oring style seal. Once this is all clean you can rinse out with brake cleaner, then blow everything dry with compressed air. Relube rubbers with rubber grease, or if you can get it caliper assembly lube, then reassemble. If the pistons are pitted badly, they should be replaced.
The pistons should move freely both directions, you can check movement by applying compressed air into where the brake line goes, use a rag to to make it seal put a piece of wood in there so you don't blow the pistons out completely.
Otherwise, take the calipers to your local brake mechanic.
Disclaimer: This is your decision & your responsibility if you choose to take my advice.
Craig
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12,745 Posts
Just a thought ...
if you are not sure this is where a Mechanic would come in handy...
They will get your brakes up to proper working order...
I let the experts work on brakes So I am not responsible...
The may catch something you may miss or have no knowledge about...
Peace of mind is a wonderful thing...
You should be sure you know what you are doing and looking at and for , before you may damage some paint (least bad case scenario) or cause you or somebody else some pain and suffering...
No SHAME in having a qualified person do the work...
if you are not sure this is where a Mechanic would come in handy...
They will get your brakes up to proper working order...
I let the experts work on brakes So I am not responsible...
The may catch something you may miss or have no knowledge about...
Peace of mind is a wonderful thing...
You should be sure you know what you are doing and looking at and for , before you may damage some paint (least bad case scenario) or cause you or somebody else some pain and suffering...
No SHAME in having a qualified person do the work...
Problem in this is the closest Ducati Dealership/place that will actually work on Ducatis is an hour and a half away. Not only that, but I don't drive a vehicle that would be able to trailer...anything really. Local bike shop refuses to touch Ducatis. Something about not being able to get in parts.
Edit: Hrm...if they're too bad to fix with some cleaning I could call and ask the local shop if they'll work on the calipers themselves. They did my tires for $26 a piece while the other bike shop in the area wanted $55 per tire (still off the bike), so I guess they still deserve my business.
Edit2: Nearest KTM dealer is a 40 minute drive. Eh, it's not terrible.
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2,504 Posts
I see what you mean about Brembo and seal kits. However, I did some quick searching, and here are some options below. It looks like kits may be available from KTM. The last link (Aprilia one) has some good links in it too...
Seal kits...
Here's some... Brembo Piston and Seal Kit 120 2799 50 @ moto-racing.co.uk
Bevel Heaven Ducati Products - Brembo Brakes, rebuild kits and parts
120 Series, Piston and Seal kits for Calipers
MG Cycle - Moto Guzzi Parts and Accessories available online at MGCycle.com
Rebuild kit for Brembo calipers? - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums Which reads...
I found a source for Brembo caliper seals!!!
I was looking through the parts manual for my KTM 950 SM and the seals are available as a separate part from KTM. The 950SM uses the latest 4-pad caliper, so I don't think that it has different sized pistons like the earlier calipers.
I looked at all of the KTM parts cataloges and it looks like the 2000-2002 KTM Duke II uses the same 30/34mm Brembo caliper as a Ducati. The seal kit is KTM# 58713021000, online price is $16.47
Brian
- Motorcycle Parts
Yeah, I know, it's from an Aprilia forum, but... Replacement Brembo caliper seals.
Seal kits...
Here's some... Brembo Piston and Seal Kit 120 2799 50 @ moto-racing.co.uk
Bevel Heaven Ducati Products - Brembo Brakes, rebuild kits and parts
120 Series, Piston and Seal kits for Calipers
MG Cycle - Moto Guzzi Parts and Accessories available online at MGCycle.com
Rebuild kit for Brembo calipers? - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums Which reads...
I found a source for Brembo caliper seals!!!
I was looking through the parts manual for my KTM 950 SM and the seals are available as a separate part from KTM. The 950SM uses the latest 4-pad caliper, so I don't think that it has different sized pistons like the earlier calipers.
I looked at all of the KTM parts cataloges and it looks like the 2000-2002 KTM Duke II uses the same 30/34mm Brembo caliper as a Ducati. The seal kit is KTM# 58713021000, online price is $16.47
Brian
- Motorcycle Parts
Yeah, I know, it's from an Aprilia forum, but... Replacement Brembo caliper seals.
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114 Posts
yep, I got those KTM# 58713021000 for mine.
Order them online and deliver the calipers and kit to local pros. Don't sell the bike and get something else though...
Sounds like a plan! What I think I'll do is see if I can make them work for about 50 minutes of riding total (ten minutes to swap oil, and about 40 so I can bring it into work once and back since I've been talking about it ALL summer).Order them online and deliver the calipers and kit to local pros. Don't sell the bike and get something else though...
Also my original plan was to sell it to some other shmuck on craiglist (for a huge loss), but I genuinely like the challenge! Ducati makes some nice bikes!
I do wish I got the Monster though :/
Oh yeah! Guys, how do I get those stupid clips on? Is there a trick to them?
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