[Nonfatwater7]

I think you have to pull the closers to pull the cam out but don't quote me on that. Don't have the manual on hand at the moment.

Some dulling of the chrome is likely normal. If they are flaked you should see an edge where the chrome stops, and the actual rocker starts.


Do you have non-ferris flakes of metal in the oil? That would be a sure indicator of flaked rockers. I had that when I first got my 748 and sure enough I had a flaked rocker. Hopefully they're not all bad. If so, might be worth looking into Megacycle, or Electreon replacement as they are supposed to be beefier.

Pics are on their way for the benefit of everyone

 

[Nonfatwater7]

Pics are on their way for the benefit of everyone

 

[Nonfatwater7]

Ok here are some photos

I will start with the opening rockers on the vertical cylinder intake and end with what the oil screen and plug came out like. I expected more metal in the screen and on the plug so now I am not sure of the flaking.

non belt side rocker:

belt side rocker:

 

[Nonfatwater7]

after some searching online it looks like the non belt side is ok but could use some emery cloth help. The other side (blueish colored photos) seems to be toast. Any thoughts? I know the pics aren't easy to see

 

[TomTom]

On a biposto (meaning A1 cams) you can pull the cams right out.
Easier to open the lower cover first and see if its there already.
Have cloth ready, it will drip some oil.

Im not completly sure though how you could break it, as the screw holding the clip as you call arm is in the way, you turned the stack the wrong way trying to get it off?

 

[Nonfatwater7]

On a biposto (meaning A1 cams) you can pull the cams right out.
Easier to open the lower cover first and see if its there already.
Have cloth ready, it will drip some oil.

Lower valve cover has been open for awhile. I thought the same thing but haven't found it yet. Mine is a biposto despite having a monoposto tail. Anyway, so I can undo the belt and slide the cam right out? Nothing will happen to the valves, rockers or shims?

 

[TomTom]

Nothing will happen, correct. You can push the cam back in then if you like.
Irritating as it may be, after this you will know a whole lot more than most desmoq owners do.

 

[Nonfatwater7]

wow, ok...and the timing wont be thrown off or anything? What in the sam hell hols the valve up?
Thats one of the things I havent figured out yet

And that last sentance actually lifted my spirits a little after a long day of depressing results, so thank you

 

[tricklidz]

OK, few things. First, been there, done that, and more....I doubt that the clip was there and you broke it, because you stated that you've worked on many engine related things so I doubt if you even attempted to turn the velocity stack the wrong way. Even my daughter knows righty tighty- lefty loosey--and the stack locks in CW and can only be turned CCW. The clip "may" be stainless steel so a magnetic won't pick it!- (not sure about that)
But yeah, I've chased a half ring (closing retainer) around the rocker area of my 748 until I found it hiding behind a valve seal. If you have doubts, put a clean flat pan (aluminum broiler pan works well) and spray the crap out of the valve area with brake cleaner and carefully blow it out with compressed air (low pressure)--get a lot of light in there and keep your eyes peeled.
Next- I'd say that you need a little (lot) more knowledge on the Desmo Engine--I'd say get the Desmo Times book, but LT Synder is on duty and the shop is closed--so you got to get the Haynes manual.
Pull the cams--read info here- TRICKLIDZ
And check all the rockers- they are NOT worn unless you can snag your fingernail on the worn area--but they HAVE to be checked!! I show some easy to make tools for this in the link.
Good luck,
Let us know how you make out.

 

[Nonfatwater7]

OK, few things. First, been there, done that, and more....I doubt that the clip was there and you broke it, because you stated that you've worked on many engine related things so I doubt if you even attempted to turn the velocity stack the wrong way. Even my daughter knows righty tighty- lefty loosey--and the stack locks in CW and can only be turned CCW. The clip "may" be stainless steel so a magnetic won't pick it!- (not sure about that)
But yeah, I've chased a half ring (closing retainer) around the rocker area of my 748 until I found it hiding behind a valve seal. If you have doubts, put a clean flat pan (aluminum broiler pan works well) and spray the crap out of the valve area with brake cleaner and carefully blow it out with compressed air (low pressure)--get a lot of light in there and keep your eyes peeled.
Next- I'd say that you need a little (lot) more knowledge on the Desmo Engine--I'd say get the Desmo Times book, but LT Synder is on duty and the shop is closed--so you got to get the Haynes manual.
Pull the cams--read info here- TRICKLIDZ
And check all the rockers- they are NOT worn unless you can snag your fingernail on the worn area--but they HAVE to be checked!! I show some easy to make tools for this in the link.
Good luck,
Let us know how you make out.

He has parts I need too it seems. Anyone know when he is back? I do need to check all the rockers now. I need to get in touch with the basics of this motor. Its just so different from a valve spring type system and its crazy but i am loving the learning so far. All in all I can't say I didn't expect this to happen. Doesn't everybody get worn rockers? I got all winter to figure it out...

 

[barneco]

There are a number of places that resell the manual..ca-cycleworks, motowheels..etc. I'm only seeing 3rd edition, and the latest is the fourth. Could be old stock or just website description not updated.

 

[Nonfatwater7]

So today at work I am pretty much just thinking about my plan of attack for tonight. I love being able to visualize the motor and my hand movements and think of how each action would effect something. The benefits of being human I suppose...and having a job where I can actually drift off and imagine things.

Anyway,
I am looking for comments and suggestions for tonight's actions:
I will grab a bottle of white out and mark the belts and gears. I assume as long as I mark the gear and belt in relation to the motor case I can just turn the crank and cams back to those marks and slap a new belt on at any given time right? It wouldn't really matter as long as everything is lined up in the same spot as when I took it off...I think? It would just save me the hassle of trying to line everything up again. Does this all make sense?
The ultimate goal for tonight is to get at least one cam removed and inspect the associated rockers for wear.

Thoughts?

 

[TomTom]

Sounds good to me.
Belt marking theory will work.
With the belts off its just two hex bolts to unscrew to have the cam come loose.
To get it out, you may have to turn the cam to have the lobes in the right position to clear the rockers, nothing delicate in there basically that you can destroy.

Nice with the vision stuff, I'm the same, I need to see the film in my mind before action.

Oh yes, note the position of the tightening belt roller, you go ccw to tension it (important!).

 

[Nonfatwater7]

I need to replace belts anyway so I'll have to retighten when the time comes. I have read up on multiple methods checking tightness and I think I have that part down

 

[TomTom]

I just mentioned how you tighten them, not how much, if everthings clear then its clear
It will get more complicated later so save your energy

 

[Nonfatwater7]

It's already complicated! Actually not really, just different. The desmo valve system is crazy but as I continue I've slowly come to like it more and more.

 

[Nonfatwater7]

The better half wanted to spend time together tonight...so I only did the white out part tonight. I will start tomorrow night though with dismantling!

 

[Nonfatwater7]

Just wanted to update on this...don't want to be that guy that leaves threads unfinished. Then they become useless to the person reading them for info down the road...

Anyway, never did find that clip. It wasn't on the garage floor after everything had been cleaned up and I never was able to find it in the motor. So either my motor has ground it to bits now or the previous owner must have broken it. Probably (hopefully) the later. Bike is apart again now for another valve check/service/adjustment. I wound up having 8 flaking rockers last time, pray that I don't have any this time!!!

Oddly enough, the oil plug came out with metal on it again. No idea where it is from. Probably just normal wear. (I do ride the bike on the track so that could be it) My gearbox has been pretty notchy and misses shifts more than I wish it would. It is my fault I am sure but that would be my guess as to where the flakes came from.

 

[Matt_P]

One time I broke a glass over an exposed BMW M3 valvetrain. Glass had definitely gotten
in two of the combistion chambers. Instead of taking the head off I broke out the duct tape and stuck a McDonalds straw to a good shop vac. I went fishing inside the cylinders until I was certain not a single molecule of glass could have stayed behind.

 

[Nonfatwater7]

One time I broke a glass over an exposed BMW M3 valvetrain. Glass had definitely gotten
in two of the combistion chambers. Instead of taking the head off I broke out the duct tape and stuck a McDonalds straw to a good shop vac. I went fishing inside the cylinders until I was certain not a single molecule of glass could have stayed behind.

Hahahahah!
That's fantastic!!!

I know mine definitely did not fall into the cylinder because my throttle bodies were still on and of course closed.
I have no idea where it went but oh well!