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Discussion Starter #1
I'm getting a u1601 code that comes right back when I clear it.

I can run tests successfully - so the cables are working properly

I've got a frankencati, but I think the key parts are the following...

2009 M1100s Engine and timing sensor (same as HM 1100s)
2008 HM1100s timing gear
2006 S2R800 ECU written to 2008 HM 1100s stock (closest same ECU setup I could find)
2006 S2R800 Loom
2006 S2R800 everything else electrical

I'm wondering if there's a pin difference in the HM 1100s loom vs. the S2R800?

Any suggests are much appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
More on this...

I'm getting a u1601 code that comes right back when I clear it.

I can run tests successfully - so the cables are working properly

I've got a frankencati, but I think the key parts are the following...

2009 M1100s Engine and timing sensor (same as HM 1100s)
2008 HM1100s timing gear
2006 S2R800 ECU written to 2008 HM 1100s stock (closest same ECU setup I could find)
2006 S2R800 Loom
2006 S2R800 everything else electrical

I'm wondering if there's a pin difference in the HM 1100s loom vs. the S2R800?

Any suggests are much appreciated.
Seems that the S2R800 doesn't have a stepper motor, which the DS engines do have... I can change throttle bodies, but is there a way to program that out of the ECU map and avoid putting in a TB from an S2R1000?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And more

I did find that the stepper motor has a lead to it by looking at pictures, and can surmise from my reading that this is the issue I am seeing. Any ideas how I can get around that with a loom that doesn't have a stepper motor lead?

Otherwise, I guess I'm ordering a used HM or M1100 loom and throttle bodies.
 

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u1601 is an immo fault.

try a m1000 file in it to see if it is a loom thing. or disable the immo in the hm file.

or just drop the hm1100 fuel, offset and spark maps and breakpoints into the s2r800 file.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
u1601 is an immo fault.

try a m1000 file in it to see if it is a loom thing. or disable the immo in the hm file.

or just drop the hm1100 fuel, offset and spark maps and breakpoints into the s2r800 file.
Thanks - I'll give that a try. I'm pretty sure it's the lack of a stepper motor and associated loom configuration.

FYI - the Immo is not flagged now.

Just the fuel, offset, spark and breakpoints? Not sure if there's anything else, but just checking.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
u1601 is an immo fault.

try a m1000 file in it to see if it is a loom thing. or disable the immo in the hm file.

or just drop the hm1100 fuel, offset and spark maps and breakpoints into the s2r800 file.
Tried the hm1100 stuff on the s2r file - nope

Anyone have an M1000 bin laying around?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update

Tried the hm1100 stuff on the s2r file - nope

Anyone have an M1000 bin laying around?
Installing a used loom and throttle bodies from an s2r1k tonight and tomorrow night. The error code is (I think) related to the fact that an s2r800 doesn't have a stepper motor and the ECU is looking for one. Since it's not there it considers starting impossible.

I'll post up results after that round of work.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Update - still need some help here guys :)

New TB's in. GuzziDiag is still throwing a u1601 CAN no signal fault, which I guess is an immobilizer fault. That is showing when I have the HM 1100 ECU bin written (with and without immobilizer flag set).

I then switched to the S2R 800 ECU bin using HM 1100 fuel maps copied into the 800 bin, and no faults, no immobilizer - everything looks ready to rock. Push the start button and it cranks over until the battery dies, but won't catch.

I guess it's back to 101 now - check for spark in each cylinder, check for fuel, blah blah blah...

After that I could just put the stock S2R800 Bin on there and try it. If still no luck then I could reinsert the PCIII and use on of their 1100 maps... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - I just want to go for a ride. If I could take it somewhere to get fixed for less than $1000, I'd do it now - but no one is going to be ready for this I think...

I have a 6am call tomorrow, so I'm going to sleep on it.
 

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The one thing you have not mentioned/tied from out email exchange is the closed throttle, butterfly position.

If they are set, probably closed, to where the 1100 motor you have would normally be set, then there is no air getting past the butterflies.
In the 1100 set up and ECU, the IACV stepper would be controlling idle air. As there is no stepper, then there is no or very little air.
No air getting sucked in also means no injected fuel being sucked in and vaporising ready for the spark to ignite the mixture.

I don't have an 800 service manual, but suggest you set the closed throttle butterfly opening degrees to what it should be for the 800.

The 800 fuel map will be very lean for an 1100 motor, so you could do as you have done and simply use the 1100 fuel values or just, for a starter (no pun intended) highlight all the base map cells and add 1100/800 = 1.375 as 37 to 38% more fuel.

There is no point cranking until the battery is flat, because if it does not start close to first up it will never start.

Checking spark is an essential, but a simpler way to see if it will fire is to spray a small amount of aero start into the TBs or airbox if that is on.
That too will also only work if the butterflies are slightly open to let in air to provide a combustible mixture.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Update from this morning...

The one thing you have not mentioned/tied from out email exchange is the closed throttle, butterfly position.

If they are set, probably closed, to where the 1100 motor you have would normally be set, then there is no air getting past the butterflies.
In the 1100 set up and ECU, the IACV stepper would be controlling idle air. As there is no stepper, then there is no or very little air.
No air getting sucked in also means no injected fuel being sucked in and vaporising ready for the spark to ignite the mixture.

I don't have an 800 service manual, but suggest you set the closed throttle butterfly opening degrees to what it should be for the 800.

The 800 fuel map will be very lean for an 1100 motor, so you could do as you have done and simply use the 1100 fuel values or just, for a starter (no pun intended) highlight all the base map cells and add 1100/800 = 1.375 as 37 to 38% more fuel.

There is no point cranking until the battery is flat, because if it does not start close to first up it will never start.

Checking spark is an essential, but a simpler way to see if it will fire is to spray a small amount of aero start into the TBs or airbox if that is on.
That too will also only work if the butterflies are slightly open to let in air to provide a combustible mixture.
OK - I've got to read up on the butterfly setting. Not sure where that setting is changed - if you know, please comment.

FYI - I installed an S2R 1k loom and TB set, so I do now have a stepper motor. Still a u1601 no signal issue whenever I load an HM 1100 map. Even though I have the Lambda sensor turned off, there is no Lambda sensor plugged into the loom, so I'm wondering if that is the final issue with that bin. I ordered one from RSU for $25 just to take that out of the equation.

Trying the S2R 800 bin, I've copied the HM 1100 maps into it, reset TPS, and copied TPS breakpoints. I didn't copy the RPM legend because that seems to be used throughout the maps in values that won't change just by changing the legend. If I start down that road, I'll probably miss something.

I have pods on, so nowhere to spray anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Also

I did check that I have spark to the proper cylinders.

I am sure that there's fuel too.

So, I like your theory about the air - that seems like the only missing component for combustion.
 

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OK - I've got to read up on the butterfly setting. Not sure where that setting is changed - if you know, please comment.

FYI - I installed an S2R 1k loom and TB set, so I do now have a stepper motor. Still a u1601 no signal issue whenever I load an HM 1100 map. Even though I have the Lambda sensor turned off, there is no Lambda sensor plugged into the loom, so I'm wondering if that is the final issue with that bin. I ordered one from RSU for $25 just to take that out of the equation.

Trying the S2R 800 bin, I've copied the HM 1100 maps into it, reset TPS, and copied TPS breakpoints. I didn't copy the RPM legend because that seems to be used throughout the maps in values that won't change just by changing the legend. If I start down that road, I'll probably miss something.

I have pods on, so nowhere to spray anything.
The butterfly opening when the throttle is closed, as in the twist throttle is fully at rest, will be a screw down near/on the butterfly shafts. This will "mechanically" set how open the butterflies are when the twisted throttle is fully closed/at rest.

If the stepper is an IACV then that will provide the air required at idle when the butterflies are closed. This would require the use of an ECU/map the implements the IACV as the idle controller.

Can't help with the u1601 with the HM bin loaded.

Pods on - you spray the aero start onto the pods and if the butterflies are open or the IACV is functioning, then it will get sucked into the combustion chamber.
This is the same for a car, bike, lawnmower, whatever. Just a combustible mixture that ignites at the drop of a hat.

Amusingly, well to me, a commercial brand here in Oz is called "Start ya bastard" and if it does not start with that, then serious delving is required.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Butterfly valve

I don't have a butterfly valve on my exhaust, I have a full Arrow system with no lambda or butterfly valve. I can't test the Stepper Motor with GD unless the bike is started, but it's plugged in and not throwing a code.
 

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I did check that I have spark to the proper cylinders.

I am sure that there's fuel too.

So, I like your theory about the air - that seems like the only missing component for combustion.
Spark confirmed is great.

If there is no air getting in, then fuel will not be sucked in from the port injectors.

So you are trying to fire an air only "mixture" in the combustion chamber.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Our posts just crossed paths.

Sounds like I have a mix and match issue on the stepper then...

I can't really start the bike with an 1100 bin since I get the u1601 code, and I can't set the valve on the TB's since I have a stepper motor - doh.

I guess I need to focus on removing that u1601 code first.
 

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I don't have a butterfly valve on my exhaust, I have a full Arrow system with no lambda or butterfly valve. I can't test the Stepper Motor with GD unless the bike is started, but it's plugged in and not throwing a code.
It is nothing to do with the exhaust at all.

What I am writing/saying it is all about air getting into the cylinder.
If the throttle body butterflies are fully closed, then no air flowing past them to suck injected fuel (above them) into the cylinder/combustion chamber.

The butterflies i am referring to are in the throttle bodies.

Their opening degrees are controlled by the hand/twist throttle via a cable, well two cables.
One controls opening from the twist grip and the other controls closing from the twist grip with a spring mechanism to assist.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Butterfly valve

It is nothing to do with the exhaust at all.

What I am writing/saying it is all about air getting into the cylinder.
If the throttle body butterflies are fully closed, then no air flowing past them to suck injected fuel (above them) into the cylinder/combustion chamber.

The butterflies i am referring to are in the throttle bodies.

Their opening degrees are controlled by the hand/twist throttle via a cable, well two cables.
One controls opening from the twist grip and the other controls closing from the twist grip with a spring mechanism to assist.
Message Received Loud and Clear!

Going to work - going to pickup some starter fluid after work and try that approach.
 

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Sounds like I have a mix and match issue on the stepper then...

I can't really start the bike with an 1100 bin since I get the u1601 code, and I can't set the valve on the TB's since I have a stepper motor - doh.

I guess I need to focus on removing that u1601 code first.
If it was me, I would go to the 800 bin that does not have the u1601 code and allows you to crank the bike.

Then I would use the throttle butterfly (opening) adjuster screw to have the butterflies open say 3 to 4 degrees.
This would then allow air to flow and suck in injected fuel = a mixture that should ignite.

Now I am not familiar at all with how the stepper works on the 1100.
Does it control the butterfly/throttle position?
I doubt it but I really don't know.

What I do know is that my friend's Benelli that I am trying to get sorted has an idle/start system that is closed/no throttle at all.
In this system the throttle body butterflies are really close to fully closed or as far as I can tell fully closed.
The ECU controls fuel from a start/idle map and then the ECU controls the stepper to provide enough air to maintain idle RPM.

After starting, fuelling is controlled by a TP/RPM map.

Nightmare bike and I wish I never said I could help! But then you do things for friends.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Quick question

How do I know when I've opened the butterflies to 3 or 4 degrees? Is there a way to check that?

If it was me, I would go to the 800 bin that does not have the u1601 code and allows you to crank the bike.

Then I would use the throttle butterfly (opening) adjuster screw to have the butterflies open say 3 to 4 degrees.
This would then allow air to flow and suck in injected fuel = a mixture that should ignite.

Now I am not familiar at all with how the stepper works on the 1100.
Does it control the butterfly/throttle position?
I doubt it but I really don't know.

What I do know is that my friend's Benelli that I am trying to get sorted has an idle/start system that is closed/no throttle at all.
In this system the throttle body butterflies are really close to fully closed or as far as I can tell fully closed.
The ECU controls fuel from a start/idle map and then the ECU controls the stepper to provide enough air to maintain idle RPM.

After starting, fuelling is controlled by a TP/RPM map.

Nightmare bike and I wish I never said I could help! But then you do things for friends.
 
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