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Just Visiting Your Planet
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Discussion Starter #1
That's right. Tire reviews suck. And so does the state of non-biased journalistic reporting in general. I've been searching for a recent meaningful motorcycle tire shootout, either in an article or video, from a qualified source and it doesn't exist anymore. Remember the days of tire tests from the likes of Cycle World or Performance Bike? Nope. Print is dead and everything is online and ad-driven verbal diarrhea. No one will bring up any negative aspects of the product. Everybody gets a participation award! Fuckwits.

I want to hear from a reliable source, in an unbiased manner, why a Bridgestone S22 is better or worse than a Dunlop Q3+ or Pirelli Corsa II or whatever it turns out to be. All the damn reviews out there are from sources that want to sell you the product. Of course they're not going to be critical about it. They want you to buy it.

Retards. Oh, sorry, mentally stunted individuals. Grr.
 

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Premium Member
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I am totally with you and stopped buying Motorcycle magazines back in the 90's after starting to work on bikes full time. 90% of what you see is /was cut and paste manufacturer ads under the guise of unbiased reviews. They start out meaning well but in the end they did not want to make any of their big meal tickets mad at them. Better pick on the little guys you can afford to lose and to give yourself some "fair and balanced" credentials.

A friend used to deliver bikes to the magazine shootouts and when a big manufacturer shows up with a 18 wheeler and brings lunch as well as swag it is hard to compete if you are not doing the same. In their favor it is hard to know what things to be critical about, some may not notice what is important to you and another finds it un-rideable.

I was doing my own tire comparisons running 2 different sets of tires on the track every year for about 4 years, right up until I hurt myself and took a break I spent my own money to simply trust what MY experiences with the tires I tried were. I did find most were perfectly fine (for my circumstance) and it was more about preferences making the differences. I do think you need to run the full tire life to know this and this is why I do not classify my tests as street tests, I simply do not get enough street miles.

What about motorcycle consumer news? I have customers telling me they are a hold out of honest opinions but maybe that wore off too. Tires are tough, as a business selling ,installing and recommending tires even I get little more than the info from a web site or brochure. As soon as you get a good handle on a tire.... it is replaced. This year I will be on the new michelin power 5 and or power Gp, in theory next year it will be something else no matter how good they are/were.

Sadly it comes down to reading all the reviews and reports and trying something to find out for you on your own bike being ridden how you ride it. Nothing new unfortunatly. I do worry a lot less about tires after trying so many and finding that for the most part they all do work pretty darn good and i would be happy with any of the ones I have run again. That said for my riding habits I do have MY preferences.
 

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Just Visiting Your Planet
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Discussion Starter #3
What about motorcycle consumer news? I have customers telling me they are a hold out of honest opinions but maybe that wore off too.
I used to subscribe to MCN for a very long time up until about 4 or 5 years ago. I agree that they're the last of the unbiased publications out there in the US. I let my subscription lapse because they really weren't any different than the rest of the magazines out there with regards to what they were doing. Maybe I'll look at them again. They still send me emails inviting me back every now and then.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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If you need an opinion on tires all you need to do is ask me. Simple as that. :)


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OK.

Dunlop Q3+ or Michelin Power 5 or Pirelli Rosso Corsa II or Bridgestone S22? Why?

Mate, they're all very good tyres, i doubt very much you would find anything "wrong" with any of them.

You will have a preference, a favourite, i do, i like Pirelli, but there is no way in hell you are going to learn which is going to be your favourite by reading a tyre test. The only way to do that is to try them.

If you ride on a tyre that you consider to be your favourite now, chances are the newer version will be the same, just better, better grip, better life, better feel.
Generally, if you have a local shop and they stock a certain brand, run with that, the benefits are many, they're just tyres, maintaining them properly with consistent tyre pressure, checking them for uneven wear or puncture damage etc will be much more productive to your riding than being on a particular brand that journo X says is the hot ticket
 

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Just Visiting Your Planet
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Discussion Starter #7
I'm leaning towards the S22 for no other reason than I can't remember the last set of Bridgestones I've had on a bike. Time to try a set, I guess.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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OK.

Dunlop Q3+ or Michelin Power 5 or Pirelli Rosso Corsa II or Bridgestone S22? Why?
For a trackday the Q3+ and Rosso Corsa II would be my choice because they are the best suited for that use. They are also good tires for dry mountain blasting also but on the street most people won’t push them to the limits they are capable of so the other tires listed might be a better choice.

Don’t know what the Power 5 is. If you mean the new Road 5 then it, the Diablo Rosso III (not the Corsa or the older Rosso II), or the S22 would be good choices. They are capable of dragging knees in the mountains while still being good in the wet and cold and giving reasonable mileage for sport touring.


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Bon Vivant
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For a trackday the Q3+ and Rosso Corsa II would be my choice because they are the best suited for that use. They are also good tires for dry mountain blasting also but on the street most people won’t push them to the limits they are capable of so the other tires listed might be a better choice.

Don’t know what the Power 5 is. If you mean the new Road 5 then it, the Diablo Rosso III (not the Corsa or the older Rosso II), or the S22 would be good choices. They are capable of dragging knees in the mountains while still being good in the wet and cold and giving reasonable mileage for sport touring.


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I just dont get people's idea of what makes a good tire... Duckman what the hell are you talking about when you say "Good" - or "good choice for"? what is good and what isnt good?

And yorik what are you looking for what atributes would make you buy or dismiss the tire?

Hell even pro reviews and write-ups make me scratch my head tires and our ideas about why a tire is good is all so esoteric.
 

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I don’t think anything you read in motorcycle or car magazines. They are just opinions, biased by ad revenue and deadlines for the next issue. The road testers are bribed with endless swag. Even if nothing is openly asked for in return, they know if they piss off someone the flow of freebies will stop. I used to purchase a lot of supplies and handle where things got sent for repair, etc. The flow of goodies was endless. My solution was to never look at the card. I never knew who sent things to me, and they never asked.
I have found a dealer in my town that always has a tire sale going on. I buy name brand tires at the price point I choose. They have good equipment and do a good installation, even checking things like chain and bearings while they installed the tires. They are Sport bike riders and will give their opinion on what they think is best,after a conversation about your riding habits. I’ll go back.
 

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Just Visiting Your Planet
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Discussion Starter #11
And yorik what are you looking for what atributes would make you buy or dismiss the tire?
I think I want what everyone wants. A tire that sticks like glue in all conditions, gives feedback, and lasts forever. I'm pretty sure that covers it.

But given the current state of technology, that's not going to happen. I'll settle for as much of those items as I can get in proportion on the sportier side. That's why I listed the tires I did. Like it's already been said, I'm sure each one of them will fit the bill in one form or another. It boils down to where on the spectrum each one falls. And that's the crux of my gripe. Without an unbiased shootout, I'll never really know unless I do it myself and I'm not in a position to make that happen.
 

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All you can really do is buy a name brand with a good reputation or the latest iteration of a tire you already liked. I don’t think the big names make bad tires, and I believe in continuous improvement.
 

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Bon Vivant
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Even an unbiased shoot-out will just boil down to each reviewers opinion and his personal experience which is bound to be different from yours.

And none of those things you list are important to me when choosing a tire. Heck, I dont even know what you mean by "feedback" do you mean that it looses grip slowly so that you know when you are reaching the limit of adhesion? is that feedback?

We all know how long sport tire last for us and we all know how long a touring tire will last - to expect anything more is wishful thinking. And for 90% of us every sport and touring tire out there has more grip than any of us will ever need. Grip isnt quantifiable and isnt worth even considering in our class of tire. One difference in grip is this; race tires that are properly up to temp will loose adhesion very slowly and allow you to slide without just letting go while a high performance road tire will let go much more quickly even when hot. But race tires have very poor adhesion when cold so they suck on the street while performance road tires are designed to grip at much lower temps. And again, any performance street tire is better than I am - even on the track, and there are only a few of us who can over cook any sport tire.

If we are riding on worn out flat centered tires any new tire will seem like magic, so when guys get a new set of tires and start raving about them I dont really pay much attention.

Buying a tire for me is very different than what most people talk about even when I read a review. For me which tire to buy comes down to "feel" and for me that is where many tires have their own personalities. How quickly, easily, or smoothly does it dip into a lean? Does it require pressure on the bar or does it want to fall into the corner? Some tires want to "over dip" and you have to catch it to keep it from diving too deep, others are smooth. Does it stay locked into a lean until you give it another input or does it want to stand back up in the middle of a corner? Is it linear, or is it uneven when you lean? And all of this has to be tempered to the bike. I have some bikes that have slow turn-in and for them I want a fast tire, bikes that are really nimble I may want to tame down a bit so I go for a smoother turning tire.

None of this is ever discussed in tire reviews either in mags or in the forums. For me Its like people dont get it. Guys talk about grip and most of them never even understand where the limit of grip is, why even speculate? Unless you've lowsided you have no idea.

And one new trend I hate is DOT tires that are designed for 65 degrees of lean angle. Who the hell is gonna use that on the street? 40% of that tire is useless to me.

Yep I agree Yorik, tire reviews are useless.
 

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I think I want what everyone wants. A tire that sticks like glue in all conditions, gives feedback, and lasts forever. I'm pretty sure that covers it.
E,

Here is my experience on Q3 vs S22. I have Q3's on my GT and S21's on my KTM. Both are great The S21's have a more aggressive profile (more round) , by comparison the Q3's look and feel 'flatter'. The biggest difference I feel is in the wet. I rode the S21's pretty hard on a rainy track day confidently, the Q3's were pretty squirrly in the wet (remember when we got stuck in the rain Sat afternoon @ NECM3). Granted the KTM is sumo, and the GT is a cruiser'y kinda bike and 100 lbs heavier. Also the back roads of Vermont aren't a track like Tamworth so my conclusions are definitely not scientific, so...
Even an unbiased shoot-out will just boil down to each reviewers opinion and his personal experience which is bound to be different from yours.
...yeah that.

FWIW, once I wear thru the Q3's, I'm switching my GT over to S22's

I run Rossa Corsa II's on the pani, mostly b/c its has the same profile as the stock tires and the DCT system was really built around that tire. I would run Rossa's on the other bikes but the cost isn't justified IMO.
 

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Plus one on Motorcycle Consumer News, the USA version.
Have subscribed for years. Most of my other mags they have died, or I just let them go.
MCN is the best. (y)

Tires? Can we just talk about something non contentious like oil? :ROFLMAO:

Any modern tire will be worlds better than the tires you grew up with.
Assuming you are past about 25 yo.

I like Pirelli Angel GT for performance and longevity.
I am not doing track days or riding very hard. Ymmv.
 

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I just dont get people's idea of what makes a good tire... Duckman what the hell are you talking about when you say "Good" - or "good choice for"? what is good and what isnt good?
And yorik what are you looking for what atributes would make you buy or dismiss the tire?
Hell even pro reviews and write-ups make me scratch my head tires and our ideas about why a tire is good is all so esoteric.
This is important to note. What type of bike? what type of riding and what expectations?

My 750 track bike will run 10 days and have tread left where my 4-valve track bike will wear them out about 25% faster. Power matters to tire life if you use it, so does traction control. If the bike allows you to stay at the limit of traction more you will see more wear. If running on the street you buy tires to last no longer than 3 years so look at your mileage and buy something that should be gone by then. If you put on 1000 miles per year you will be better with a sport tire than a sport touring tire. If you get to rack up miles then a sport touring tire will be better in the long haul.

The power 5 (not road 5) is a sport tire due in 2020 so no tests yet on that one .

In a road tire I like sipes all the way to the edge as I do use my whole tire in the rain some times, hard to find in sport tires these days and even sport touring tires are turning into slicks closer to the edge.
one new trend I hate is DOT tires that are designed for 65 degrees of lean angle. Who the hell is gonna use that on the street? 40% of that tire is useless to me.
From track instructing I can tell you more inexperienced riders use more tire than need be. A common mistake is pushing the bike under you in a corner as opposed to moving your weight to the inside. Following students that are often experienced riders I often see parts touching down due to lean angles that are more extreme than people going twice as fast with more margin of safety. This is one reason I do not like the slick sections on many new tires especially sport touring bikes. In the dry having maximum grip in a area where plenty of riders are riding without knowing is not all bad though.

I try and match tires based on
shape = does the chassis or rider benefit from one or another.
application = sport touring, rain use, track use.
mileage = how long do you want/expect it to last?
cost = more often than not people shop based mostly on price
 

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I used to get all my tire and lingerie advice from the UK mag "Fast Bikes", but since they stopped with the topless bints I stopped "reading",...

You could trust these guys back in the day, with loose babes like this running around their shop what kind of swag could the manufacturers offer to influence them?

978449


978454
 

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I don't understand the OP's rant. Certainly there are differences between brands and designs, but modern tires are so good that there aren't many who can outride their tires on the street. Assuming a good suspension setup and a well balanced tire, I expect that the variables of tire pressures, throttle and braking control contribute more to a tire's performance characteristics than design/construction differences across brands. FWIW, I like to put a sport/track tire on the FW and the same brands ST tire on the rear.
 

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My Tuono is wearing Bridgestone RS10's and I have no problem with them. They don't do anything wrong but were definitely sketchy in the rain in Vermont. They're definitely not going to last very long either. I don't think they'll make it to ECM...3500 miles maybe? I've got 2500 on them now and the rear is squaring.
I'll probably stick with Bridgestones as the bike is set up for them now and I don't feel like starting all over with a new tire.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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I’ve used the RS10 on the Monster up at the gap. It’s a great pure sport tire. Very similar in performance to the Q3+ or Supercorsa SP. Short lived but great in the mountains as long as it doesn’t rain.

Honestly, for people who don’t have a lot of experience with different tires and don’t know the difference between what a good tire is versus a bad tire for a given application, just stick with the suggested applications each manufacturer publishes.


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