Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
157 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Tire advice.

Hi lads, I've a long history with bikes but mostly on the road. I've recently converted my 97 -916 to a track bike. I'm fanatical about tires and was using Pirelli Super Corsa SP's. I absolutely love that tire. The bike will only be on track from now on so the obvious tire choice is the Super Corsa SC which apparently is even better than the SP once warmed up. The problem with this tire is its only gonna last two days on track and the packages I normally book are three days. I'd like to avoid having to fit new tires track side if possible.

This leaves me looking for something that's gonna last for at least three days on track with an intermediate group,middle of the road rider. The big one that jumps out is the Pirelli Super-bike Pro. I've heard story's of that tire lasting up to six days without tire warmers. While being very impressive it also scares the shit out of me. How can a tire perform well on track with that many heat cycles. I'd love to get some fed back on this tire if possible. The other option is to go down to something like a Rosso Corsa 50/50 road/track tire. I'm guessing I'd get three days out of that and still have great confidence and grip. Again any feedback would be great.

I'm open to all tire manufacturers, I was running Michelins for years but that love affair ended with the pilot power three so I switched to Pirelli and haven't looked back since!

Thanks in advance …
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,479 Posts
Three days will depend on a few things.

track surface- I ride some tracks that are super aggressive and chew the tires up and others where you come off looking like a new tire.

Your riding style- I have had customers running superbikes get 2-3 days as a beginner and later on as they get more corner speed and tend to be more smooth instead of parking it and pinning it their tire life went up by 1-2 days with the same tires on the same track.

Class of tire.

I class tires in this way
race tires
hypersport tires
sport tires

The middle group is the one the pirelli supercorsa SP V2 is in , also is the michelin supersport and Bridgestone RS10, Dunlop does not have a tire in this category. All of these tires are kind of compromise tires in that they are the step between the actual race tires and the sport tires (Dunlop Q3, power 3, rosso corsa). What they have for positives is really good traction and very little warm up time, no warmers needed so if warming the tires is something you wont do and you feel the sport tires will not grip enough then this group of hypersports will be where you might be.

NONE of them last on the track, sadly I do not find many customers who can get many days out of them, think of them more as a qualifying tire in that the compounds are so soft because they are street tires and they assume no warm up they sacrifice durability to give very good levels of traction with little fuss. On the street these same tires can be made to go thousands of miles but street riding is not track riding.

I would expect the rosso corsa would get you the 3 days you are looking for I have put a couple sets on MV Agusta F3-800's that have more power than the 916 and have made it through 6-7 days with a middle group instructor riding the bike. I have been on a set of the rosso corsa's myself on my 750ss which has less power than the 916 and got about 11-12 days instructing and playing. Tire pressure was important because at lower pressures the rear got slippery, with more pressure they stuck like glue.

The Race tires in a medium or durable compound should get you MORE life than the hypersport tires but will require you to keep a much closer eye on pressures and either run tire warmers or warm the tires before riding hard. I have also been on Michelin power cup evo tires and they have been great but are also race tires with all of the race tire traits such as worrying about hot/cold tear and warm up.

There is another in the pirelli lineup you might look at and that is the trackday slick, I have a few customers who have run this tire and have gotten good life out of it and it has been cheaper than the supercorsa spv2.

That brings up cost. The hypersport tires are not cheap and with them wearing as fast as they do you might find race tires are only slightly more money and give you more life than a hypersport tire.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
157 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that very detailed reply. I have tire warmers and keep a very close eye on pressures. I would also consider myself to be be a very smooth rider. Lap times are not my thing. Big lean angles and perfect smooth lines row my boat. So far I have three tires I'm considering, all in the Pirelli range. Best life will come from the Super bike pro. The only down side to this tire from what I've read is that it takes a lot of warming before you can push. With my tire warmers I don't see that being a problem.I'm also considering the straight Superbike version of this tire. That's gonna be super sticky and also require a lot of heat to get the best of. The question with this tire will be
durability. Then last but not least is the Rosso Corsa.

I think I'm gonna do a little more research on the two tire choices in the Pirelli Superbike range and see how we go..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
The pirelli trackday slick will last a very long time but has little grip.
If you use warmers you should try the stickier race tires and change them when you need too. You will ride faster,safer, and have more fun. Of course it will cost more.
I said try them, that is the best way to make the best decision. Tires at the track have so many variables, there is no way you can get the best answer from others, even with alot of experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,234 Posts
If you are considering the race tires or even the hypersports and have warmers to use with them the solution would be extra wheels and switch them when you become uncomfortable with the wear on the second day. I've been running Q3s on my 900SS racebike and I have a ball with them. They slide predictably when provoked and more importantly they come back without drama. I generally can get about 4 days out of them and they are still pretty good when at and below the wear bars. Plus you can't beat the price.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
157 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Been doing a load of reasearch and the more I read the more indecisive I become. All of the reviews of the Superbike PRO say it has reduced grip in favour of tire life however I think this reduced grip needs to be quantified. Obviously it's not gonna be as sticky as a full on racing slick but surely it has to be better than a Hypersport tire?

If it had the same consistent grip of say, a Rosso Corsa for example that would be more than enough grip for 80-90% of the track junkies. I have read it's not as good as a super Corsa but again this has to be quantified. A super Corsa sp/sc is only exceptional for the first ten laps. After that it starts to degrade and will only last a day and a half at best.

The problem with the Rosso Corsa is its not a track tire and can get greasy if pushed. That won't happen with the PRO. From what I've read it'll just keep the same consistent performance lap after lap. I now just need to understand how it compares to a Rosso Corsa for grip and feel. If anyone has any experience using both that would be great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
838 Posts
Unless you are pretty darn fast, you really should give the Q3's a try. Excellent track day tire, great price, very predictable. Ive enjoyed them on track days.....
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
1,584 Posts
When I was doing track days on my 97' 916, I used the Pirelli Supercorsa Pro's. This was about 8 years ago, so I am not sure if they are the same as today. I got to be quite a track junky at this time in my life and would do about 10 track days a year, mostly at Thunderhill raceway in Northern Cal. I would just make the time cutoff to run in the A group.

I loved the tires as they had much more grip than any street tire I had used at the time. Also getting the suspension set up properly was huge in getting the tires to last. At first I was getting alot of tearing of the rear tire, but after conferring with an suspension expert, was able the bike set up properly to get the most out of the tires.

What I liked about the tires was their feel and grip and how they would gradually drift rather than just let go. This would happen almost like clockwork on the third day of use at around 1:00 in the afternoon on a particular turn. I would then back off just a bit for the rest of the day. I would then buy another set for the next 3 sessions.

In the 3500 track day miles I did with these tires, I thankfully never crashed. Scared myself a few times. But the tires were amazing and instilled the confidence to ride at my limit.

Mike
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
979 Posts
Unless you are pretty darn fast, you really should give the Q3's a try. Excellent track day tire, great price, very predictable. Ive enjoyed them on track days.....
I have read the same thing many times about the Q3's. I run the Pirelli Superbike slick on my 1098S, but I have a friend on a R6 that runs the Q3's and he puts down the same times as me and has a lot more $ in his wallet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,541 Posts
I run track days on a billiard table smooth track in a very hot climate with an under-powered old antique; my strategy is to work on smooth transitions from deep lean angles to full power exits. The Q3's have been excellent for this, three days is all I get out of the rear tire although on the hottest days it starts to get greasy on the edges, with predictable recoveries, after 20 minutes into each session. Need to watch the tire pressure closely, but have yet to feel the front tire is going to let me down although it does slide nicely.

As said above by others, so many variables are at work in tire choice that you really can't take much advice from other riders experiences. So, I recommend at least trying a set of the Q3's because they are a relatively inexpensive option that many people praise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Also getting the suspension set up properly was huge in getting the tires to last. At first I was getting alot of tearing of the rear tire, but after conferring with an suspension expert, was able the bike set up properly to get the most out of the tires.
This is the key! I used to work as an on-track instructor for a local track day/track school provider. With a poor suspension setup, I'd burn the edges off a DOT race tire in about a day. With a proper setup, I could run tires for four days. And that was at desert tracks (90-100 degree air temp) with no tire warmers.

FYI, the best way to figure out if a tire is going to work for you is to buy a set and test them yourself. I used to mount test tires on the bike before arriving at the track, but bring a set of tires I knew as a backup. If I hated the test tires, a track-side tire vendor was happy enough to swap tires for $30-40/set. I brought my own tools and stands so I could get the swap done in the down-time between sessions and not miss any track time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,322 Posts
+1 for Q3's and getting ur suspension set up by a pro. Stiffer is not better.

For reference I ran Q3's on my multi1200, did 2 full track days B-group, and it weared so well I put another 2k miles touring on them. For the $$, you can't beat Q3's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Pirelli ditched the rock hard superbike pro and introduced sc3 endurance compound in the supercorsa range for this year.

Thats the one you need. Tire warmers required, otherwise stivk with SP.

Rosso corsa dont compare with supercorsa's the front tire has different profile and feels just not good compared to the supercorsa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
One issue that needs to be resolved is warmers, are you going to be using them?

If not I'd be going with Vifaatje's suggestion and opting for the SP's which are designed to operate at less than optimum track temp and will still give plenty of grip. Even if you were in a racing situation, without warmers, whatever you lost to a dedicated race tyre late in the race you would gain in the first few laps while they waited for the tyres to come up to temp. And as you mention heat cycles might become an issue for the race tyre where it isn't so much on an SP which is designed to heat and cool with sporting road use.

But I think you are hugely overestimating tyre wear. Seriously, if you are in the intermediate group I just don't see it being an issue on a bike with 120-ish hp. Don't over think it, just run what you know and enjoy yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Running supercorsa's SC compound without warmers is NOT a good idea and might be gone after 2 full days.

Supercorsa SP is more than enough for me on the track and they've held up perfectly after 200 miles of track riding. I'm assuming there is at least another 200 miles left in combination with the usual road miles.

However I've discussed the excact same issue with my tire guy (trackside) and he mentioned the SC3 compound and stressed the use of warmers. They will extend grip and tire life even more than correct suspension settings.

If I refrained from using warmers he proposed me to keep running SP's. He also proposed me to stop using rosso corsa's and try rosso III in stead. The much newer compound and profile is supposed to be equal to DRC but the longevity and wet grip is better.

anyway, those black tires give me feedback or not and I think riding with the tires that give you the feedback or confidence to push to the limit is a good investment. If you're one of these guys that don't give a shit and push hard on anything???? Well I'll envy you ;-)

Gr. Michel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Running supercorsa's SC compound without warmers is NOT a good idea and might be gone after 2 full days.

Supercorsa SP is more than enough for me on the track and they've held up perfectly after 200 miles of track riding. I'm assuming there is at least another 200 miles left in combination with the usual road miles.

However I've discussed the excact same issue with my tire guy (trackside) and he mentioned the SC3 compound and stressed the use of warmers. They will extend grip and tire life even more than correct suspension settings.

If I refrained from using warmers he proposed me to keep running SP's. He also proposed me to stop using rosso corsa's and try rosso III in stead. The much newer compound and profile is supposed to be equal to DRC but the longevity and wet grip is better.

anyway, those black tires give me feedback or not and I think riding with the tires that give you the feedback or confidence to push to the limit is a good investment. If you're one of these guys that don't give a shit and push hard on anything???? Well I'll envy you ;-)

Gr. Michel
Totally agree. Run race tyres without warmers and it is a constant battle trying to get heat into them without cold tearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
817 Posts
I stopped using Pirellis 2 years ago and made the switch to Dunlop Ntec race slicks ( KR451 rear and KR106 front)
I have these tires on my 996 and 900 trackbikes and I get at least 6 track days ( more like 8) from a rear.
Tire warmers are mandatory. Grip is incredible
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,706 Posts

·
Flavor of the Month
Joined
·
2,359 Posts
I think street tires are a bad idea, they're slippery!

You may need to flip the rear depending on the track. Should be cake with a 916.

From my humble experience, I switched to slicks. I was racing my lil SV with R10s and could burn up a pair of medium rears in a weekend. BStone tire guru dude had me try the V01 medium with a soft front and I haven't looked back. Their slicks last longer than the DOTs. My bike is low on power though, so I was told it doesn't make enough to need the newer V02s...

Most of the fast guys in my club are on Pirellis DOTs or Slicks, but I'm not sure on their wear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,478 Posts
Jennings iss so rough on my tires all snotted up at the end of the day . Pbir is ao much nicer on my Q3's , almost like I didn't ride at all
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top