Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

41 - 53 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
... What I find MOST amusing, is how radically ill-informed people owning high-dollar high-performance machines are about oil choice....
Just because someone has money doesn't mean they has smartz. The "more money than brains" club is hugely membered. So is the "I don't need to be smart, because I have money" club.

Back to oil ...

Ok I have read this thread end to end four times over the last month or so. There is absolutely ZERO consensus when it comes to lubricants in air cooled, dry clutch, twin cylinder motorcycle engines. One member insists that the gears shearing the molecular chain ... another member insists it's due to wet clutches shearing the oil's molecular chains ("member" = rhetorically used).

I could pose the question "which oil is best for my two valve 900SS?" and I'd get ten different answers. As I said back in May, this tells me there is no "correct" answer, but instead there are many "correct" answers. Which is really no help at all in the end.

I know one thing, I avoid motorcycle manufacturer's branded lubricants. Those are rebranded. When I had my repair shop, Onan (makers of RV, Emergency, and portable generators) wanted only their oils used in the generators' engines. I came to learn that the $7.00 per qt. "Onamax" was rebranded Havoline 30wt. I used to buy an entire pallet about once per year of Havoline 30wt at $0.93 cents per quart to perform services on my customers' generators. That's just an anecdotal example of why I avoid rebranded lubricants.

I think the most common denominator in this thread is just the viscosity. I believe I've seen 15w/40 or 15w/50 mentioned the most often in this thread. Beyond that, it appears that one should just buy any well known name brand at the best price, as long as it it 15w/40 or 15w/50.

Since I live in the same region of the South Western U.S.A as Member *RockAZ I think I'll go with his preference. Along with that, use a K&N KN-153 filter, as that particular filter was most selected in another thread that was a ~poll~ on filters used by quite a long shot.

Change often, be observant, and even take notes on what has been observed ... everything that has been observed. Make changes as one see fit, based on those observations.

Done.

... now let's talk about tires .... woops ... no I meant DOT 5 brake fluid .... er, no.

Lastly, anyone used any of the Lucas products?

:smile2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,621 Posts
/---------------/
I think the most common denominator in this thread is just the viscosity. I believe I've seen 15w/40 or 15w/50 mentioned the most often in this thread. Beyond that, it appears that one should just buy any well known name brand at the best price, as long as it it 15w/40 or 15w/50.

Since I live in the same region of the South Western U.S.A as Member *RockAZ I think I'll go with his preference. Along with that, use a K&N KN-153 filter, as that particular filter was most selected in another thread that was a ~poll~ on filters used by quite a long shot.

Change often, be observant, and even take notes on what has been observed ...
/----------------------/

Just a heads up...I was checking a well known track day organization's calendar the other day, and they had a big warning posted.

No K+N oil filters would be approved at tech, as they have had too many of them fail on track.

Must be oiling the track down...a big no-no at the race track.

Reminds me of the early '90s...Fram Motorcycle filters were banned from WERA and maybe AMA competition after a couple ruptured on track...one incident led to a fatality. Fram was having their bike filters made in Korea and quickly stopped and moved the line to Canada to get a hold on quality.

Not a big deal if you aren't doing track days or living at high rpm on the road.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,497 Posts
Oil is as bad as religion and politics. :)

I use the manufacturer recommended weight and if they recommend a top tier brand I generally go with that but otherwise I buy from a large top tier vendor. I don't use manufacturer branded oil (just a cash grab IMO), and I don't use the 'boutique' oils (may be legit... but just as likely to be a marketing queen... and it's damned near impossible for a non-expert to tell the difference).

Generally for bikes that's meant Mobile 1 Motorcycle... but for the Multi I use Motul 300V because it's a top tier brand and my Ducati dealer said that it was the recommended oil for the US (before Shell Advanced was available). I honestly couldn't care less that it's $15 a quart and I can get Mobile 1 for under $10... over the life of the bike it'll cost me a few hundred bucks more, that's in the noise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
Interesting, every couple of years I've heard things like this on the K&N, in my experience it is because the installer used the "nut" built into the filter to over-tighten it which can tear the rubber seal off from the filter. That "nut" is only supposed to be used to remove the filter, not tighten it on. K&N 153 does come with safety wire holes ready to use, I can't imagine a properly installed and wired one would come off or leak. I've just read this morning about a couple incidents leading to the track bans where it was mostly the K&N 204 model which fits many bikes that had the weld come off the nut that had been tightened by it. Tech insisting on only the manufacturer's filter is just a legal cop-out, in my opinion - no guarantee that they will do any better but the manufacturer could be held liable.

You can always put a large hose clamp around any filter and safety wire to that, I remember a few batches of Fram filters years ago that were not up to spec and vibrated loose if not wired up using this method,...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
Interesting, every couple of years I've heard things like this on the K&N, in my experience it is because the installer used the "nut" built into the filter to over-tighten it which can tear the rubber seal off from the filter. That "nut" is only supposed to be used to remove the filter, not tighten it on. K&N 153 does come with safety wire holes ready to use, I can't imagine a properly installed and wired one would come off or leak. I've just read this morning about a couple incidents leading to the track bans where it was mostly the K&N 204 model which fits many bikes that had the weld come off the nut that had been tightened by it. Tech insisting on only the manufacturer's filter is just a legal cop-out, in my opinion - no guarantee that they will do any better but the manufacturer could be held liable.
These were happening a lot to Triumph owners (maybe others???). It looks like they were having problems with the nut that was welded to the top of the filter. Here is a picture...the guy says he hand tightened it like he always does, so it wasn't from him using the nut to tighten it.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
Impressive pic - that "nut" is very different from the KN-153 style, and this pic shows a complete failure! What a mess,...

And yes - that PN is 204 - the one identified on several forums as having severe quality control/installer failures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
Impressive pic - that "nut" is very different from the KN-153 style, and this pic shows a complete failure! What a mess,...

And yes - that PN is 204 - the one identified on several forums as having severe quality control/installer failures.
I took the pic from the thread on the triumphrat forum. i use KN-153 on my SC's and I still use a KN-204 on my 05 thruxton. I was a little concerned when i first heard about it but i read something where they found out that they had a problem in the manufacturing and fixed it. I don't remember the details. With three bikes I have been through at least a couple dozen K&N filters over the past few years and never had a problem with any of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
Just a heads up...I was checking a well known track day organization's calendar the other day, and they had a big warning posted.

No K+N oil filters would be approved at tech, as they have had too many of them fail on track.
No part number specified? No "reason" specified? My bet is pretty much what other members have spoken up about, it's not that the K&N is a "bad" filter, it's that you have too many Junior Racer Boys bust out their Junior Mechanic's Tool Box and misuse the nut on the filter. Most rules are there to protect squids from themselves, and to protect others from squids. Same goes for most traffic laws.

If the K&N KN-153 filter was so trouble prone, K&N would have been sued out of existence by now ..... OR, more likely ... K&N would have taken that filter off the market due to liability issues. At the very least they'd have redesigned it by now.

So, I'm not buying into the nega-hype. At least not until I see definitive proof that the KN-153 is somehow cursed.

:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,621 Posts
No part number specified? No "reason" specified? /---------/
I saw on another forum that the Thailand factory that makes the K+N (and also the HiFloFiltro) buggered the threads up...so I'm guessing the filter blew off and oiled the track.

Exactly what happened with the Fram back in the '90s...and they're still in business.

If I can't get to town to get a Ducati filter, I go to the local O'Reilly's Auto Parts. They can get me a Wix 51352 overnight. It's a blue filter, made by MANN in Germany. A little cheaper than Ducati, but heavier. I put them on by hand, just like I do my car and truck. I don't need a nut on the end to get them loose. My pair of oil filter pliers takes it off easy.

Little known fact. When Fabio Taglioni was designing the original 500 Pantah engine, he wanted a spin on filter on it. At the time, the Ducati factory was trying to stay in business, and was building diesel engines for an Italian company (VM Motori. The engines were being used in an Alfa Romeo Alfetta. The oil filter Ducatis use today just happen to fit those old Alfa Romeo turbo diesels. Coincidence?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
It's still a work in progress....switched from mobil1 to shell...I don't think I'm switching back



So what precisely are we looking at here? Since there are two completely different angles, and totally different looking valves, it could appear to someone that it's a picture if an exhaust valve ... and an intake valve. Obviously one is going to be cleaner than the other. That having been said, I don't understand what point Member *Buhgaboo is attempting to make.

I mean, I ~get it~ ... there's the implication that one oil made dirty deposits and another oil did not. But the two different camera angles call into question the validity of that notion. I'd send him a PM and ask, but early on in my own membership he sent me a PM calling me an ignorant f*ck, and insisted that I delete my post and leave the forum because he insisted that I didn't know what PTSD is (fair enough, that's his opinion and he's entitled to it ... he may have just been having a bad day ... which is 100% normal and completely forgivable ... we all have bad days from time to time). He seems like a nice person, but I'd not want to trigger him again, being triggered can be painful and very unsettling, so that's the last thing I'd want to happen to him. I'm more than likely on his ignore list anyhow.

That said I don't want others to think I'm trying to cast doubt on him publicly, regarding the implications of the pictures and the accompanying comments, when it would be better to send a PM to ask what his meaning is.

Can anyone shed light on what we're seeing in these two photos? The description that accompanies them is vague. And being ~ignorant~ (admittedly) I could use some help here. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly do not know what is being shown in them because I've never seen the inside of a Ducati engine's heads so I honestly do not know what I'm looking at.

It's his remark along with the pics that confuses me. Two pictures of a single valve after using two different oils for a couple/few thousand miles? Or two different valves (exhaust and intake) ?? Or some other view of the same two valves from each of the cylinders (ie; the exhaust valve from the vertical cylinder, and the exhaust valve from the horizontal cylinder?). Or are they pictures of valves from the same head, (one intake, one exhaust) implying that after having used Mobile 1 it made the exhaust valve dirty and Shell does not (without a picture of the same valve after using Shell)?

The reason I ask is that I'm about to buy oil to do an oil change on the bike I bought a few weeks back.

Any help?


.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,095 Posts
Slightly off topic (but how can you not be in these threads): I have seen first hand the insides of several Ducati 748 race bikes at half-season running Motul 300V (via sponsorship) and the following year, Mobil 1 (bought and paid for).
The 300V motors were due for a rebuild, the Mobil 1 motors looked and measured brand new inside.

I will always run Mobil 1. Unless it's a KTM, then it just don't matter and I use Rotella cause it ain't a finicky bitch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
I use Mobil 1 15w50 in my '02 Ducati Sport 900 and change every season which is about 2K miles for me. I had no hesitation making the choice especially considering "car" oil cannot affect a Ducati dry clutch. My only reservation is the moderate wear score Mobil 1 earned at the best testing writeup available:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

So, although Mobil 1 15w50 is not ideal, I haven't found a readily available, affordable, 50 weight synthetic alternative with better performance characteristics.
 
41 - 53 of 53 Posts
Top