Seen a lot of ppl post about this, minus the work involved on some models I heard great raves about doing tapered rollers instead of balls. It should take out some slop in the steering head.
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They are probably cheaper because they don't have the Ducati parts overhead to support. Or, they are Chinese.
The thing about tapered rollers is they need to be installed very carefully to make sure they are parallel. Without a special tool I would expect that there will be some trial and error in the installation. If they are not parallel, they will bind at one position and be loose in another. It may be that the manufacturing tolerances of the headstock and triples are good enough to support this, but I don't know. Ball bearings are more forgiving in this respect. They have the same requirements, but they are not as stiff so they can accommodate runout errors.
The instreased stiffness and load bearing of the roller is why I guess there is interest in such things. But, with the large separation of the upper and lower bearings, and with the preload set properly, ball bearings will be more than adequate. I have a 2000 748 that has been raced since I got it, been in several serious crashes, and has the original headstock bearings. (And I do inspect them.)
Maybe if you are planning on doing a lot of stunting and don't want to maintain the bike, the rollers might be a good idea, but for a normal road bike I don''t see the point.
The thing about tapered rollers is they need to be installed very carefully to make sure they are parallel. Without a special tool I would expect that there will be some trial and error in the installation. If they are not parallel, they will bind at one position and be loose in another. It may be that the manufacturing tolerances of the headstock and triples are good enough to support this, but I don't know. Ball bearings are more forgiving in this respect. They have the same requirements, but they are not as stiff so they can accommodate runout errors.
The instreased stiffness and load bearing of the roller is why I guess there is interest in such things. But, with the large separation of the upper and lower bearings, and with the preload set properly, ball bearings will be more than adequate. I have a 2000 748 that has been raced since I got it, been in several serious crashes, and has the original headstock bearings. (And I do inspect them.)
Maybe if you are planning on doing a lot of stunting and don't want to maintain the bike, the rollers might be a good idea, but for a normal road bike I don''t see the point.
I replaced the bearings in my 916 with tapered bearings, everyone says they're better, maybe they are? I honestly can't tell the difference.
However I just fitted some to my Son's YBR125 and it made the world of difference, to be fair though the original bearings were totally shot.
I believe SS and Monster had tapered bearings as OEM fitment.
However I just fitted some to my Son's YBR125 and it made the world of difference, to be fair though the original bearings were totally shot.
I believe SS and Monster had tapered bearings as OEM fitment.
you might want one of these, they make life a bit easier
Parktool Steering Head Race Remover - $35.99
desmotimes.com have them
i wouldn't be buying any bearings from ebay though, only from a reputable website, they not very expensive, most of the forums sponsors sell them. you want speedie moto or some other big name bearing.
engineering wise balls shouldn't be used in the steering head application, they can't take all the different direction loads well at all
you'll need a soft hammer & a piece of pipe slightly bigger than the steering head tube to press the lower race on, it can only touch the inner lip of the race though so a nice sliding fit. i got a nice piece of stainless from a custom exhaust maker.
otherwise if you have a reputable shop to install them, i wouldn't go to just anyone, they have to be put in correctly see post above.
Parktool Steering Head Race Remover - $35.99
desmotimes.com have them
i wouldn't be buying any bearings from ebay though, only from a reputable website, they not very expensive, most of the forums sponsors sell them. you want speedie moto or some other big name bearing.
engineering wise balls shouldn't be used in the steering head application, they can't take all the different direction loads well at all
you'll need a soft hammer & a piece of pipe slightly bigger than the steering head tube to press the lower race on, it can only touch the inner lip of the race though so a nice sliding fit. i got a nice piece of stainless from a custom exhaust maker.
otherwise if you have a reputable shop to install them, i wouldn't go to just anyone, they have to be put in correctly see post above.
When I fitted the lower race bearing on my 916 I put the stem into the freezer for a few hours and warmed the bearing and it literally dropped into place.you'll need a soft hammer & a piece of pipe slightly bigger than the steering head tube to press the lower race on, it can only touch the inner lip of the race though so a nice sliding fit. i got a nice piece of stainless from a custom exhaust maker.
Also with the removable steering tube, fitting the outer race was much easier than a conventional steering head as everything is more accesible on the bench and the tube can go in the oven to heat it up before pushing the frozen race into it.
Definitely the easiest head bearing swap I've ever done.
+1 works a treat!When I fitted the lower race bearing on my 916 I put the stem into the freezer for a few hours and warmed the bearing and it literally dropped into place.
Also with the removable steering tube, fitting the outer race was much easier than a conventional steering head as everything is more accesible on the bench and the tube can go in the oven to heat it up before pushing the frozen race into it.
Definitely the easiest head bearing swap I've ever done.
I replace the lower bearing with the tapered roller but leave the top bearing stock. This avoids the stiffness that is sometimes associated with the increased bearing surface area of 2 rollers. Simply tighten to 0 preload / 0 lash.
History
Interestingly almost all motorcycles had loose ball bearings up to the late seventies. Then folks began to convert their bikes to tapered roller bearings. By the late 1990's almost all motorcycle manufacturers went back to ball bearings.
The one intermediate configuration between the two ball bearing periods was that of the Norton Commando. The Norton had ball bearings in a race which provided the best of both worlds.
I have motorcycles with loose ball bearings, caged ball bearings and tapered roller bearings. My preference is the caged balls. The reason is that the loose bearings get sloppy when the races either loosen or wear. The tapered roller bearings can be difficult to keep adjusted properly. If the tapered bearings don't have the EXACT relationship to their race that they desire, they will either feel notchy or will understeer. Sometimes misadjusted rollers will oversteer! Caged balls seem unfazed by adjustment. They just plain work. They are also smoother and provide less friction (due to small contact area) than tapered bearings.
Steering heads really don't need roller bearings. Yes, when adjusted properly the rollers distribute the force on more surface area on their races, but it just isn't necessary. A steering head remains fairly stable in operation. It doesn't 'spin' in the bearings; it just moves slightly. There's also just not enough force or torque on steering head bearings to require the surface area of a tapered.
I think you'll find almost every racer on the track with ball bearings these days. They're my choice for what it's worth.
Interestingly almost all motorcycles had loose ball bearings up to the late seventies. Then folks began to convert their bikes to tapered roller bearings. By the late 1990's almost all motorcycle manufacturers went back to ball bearings.
The one intermediate configuration between the two ball bearing periods was that of the Norton Commando. The Norton had ball bearings in a race which provided the best of both worlds.
I have motorcycles with loose ball bearings, caged ball bearings and tapered roller bearings. My preference is the caged balls. The reason is that the loose bearings get sloppy when the races either loosen or wear. The tapered roller bearings can be difficult to keep adjusted properly. If the tapered bearings don't have the EXACT relationship to their race that they desire, they will either feel notchy or will understeer. Sometimes misadjusted rollers will oversteer! Caged balls seem unfazed by adjustment. They just plain work. They are also smoother and provide less friction (due to small contact area) than tapered bearings.
Steering heads really don't need roller bearings. Yes, when adjusted properly the rollers distribute the force on more surface area on their races, but it just isn't necessary. A steering head remains fairly stable in operation. It doesn't 'spin' in the bearings; it just moves slightly. There's also just not enough force or torque on steering head bearings to require the surface area of a tapered.
I think you'll find almost every racer on the track with ball bearings these days. They're my choice for what it's worth.
Recently I replaced my stock bearings with All Balls roller set, did not get them from eBay because in the recent thread elsewhere a fella had front wheel bearing that he ordered from eBay fail, so to eliminate the possibility of buying fakes that eBay seems flooded with lately I gave All Balls a call, got a set of Ducati and a complete Honda kit with seals for a reasonable price, no issues with installation either, used some screwdrivers and a park tool to remove, cast pipe as driver to install.
Can't say I feel any difference but that's what all the cool kids are doing, rollers are the way to go.
Can't say I feel any difference but that's what all the cool kids are doing, rollers are the way to go.
Yes, but not from ebay. Was reasonably easy to do. Bearings went in freezer. All went well. Could tell difference, possibly because the bearings I was replacing were on their way out and yes they had been inspected, cleaned and greased when servicing demanded it.Did anybody tried tapered steering bearings? I saw then in Ebay and they cost (a set plus dust covers) 2x less then the OEM bearing set. Are they better then round bearings? And you feel any differences?
Thanks!
Have just pulled apart my 1986 F1 and found that it had tapered steering bearings too - that made me happy.
When I exchanged my triple clamps for a 30mm Motowheels unit, I was shocked to discover Ducati uses caged ball bearings - I always considered this a cheap ass way of doing the job. Everything I have worked on that was intended for serious racing use has had tapered roller bearings. $21,000 plus for my SP and it has cheap caged ball bearings - amazing!!
reasons
Every story has two sides. It may be the case that the bearing is meant to be a disposable part. I have a 1198s that had a front end hit after a lowside. The bearing cone race dented at the point of each bearing. The hit was hard enough to bend the oem steering stem axle but the frame was not bent. I think the thin wall front wheel axle, steering stem axle and light structured bearing assemblies are meant to be expendable. That's just my view of the engineering side of the story. Also, NTN (the stock ballies) bearings are very good quality and cost commercially (to a factory)as much as the timken branded taper type wich doesn't really add to the cost savings arguement.
I am replacing many parts with upgrade race components but I will be purchasing factory oem engineered Ducati bearings.
Every story has two sides. It may be the case that the bearing is meant to be a disposable part. I have a 1198s that had a front end hit after a lowside. The bearing cone race dented at the point of each bearing. The hit was hard enough to bend the oem steering stem axle but the frame was not bent. I think the thin wall front wheel axle, steering stem axle and light structured bearing assemblies are meant to be expendable. That's just my view of the engineering side of the story. Also, NTN (the stock ballies) bearings are very good quality and cost commercially (to a factory)as much as the timken branded taper type wich doesn't really add to the cost savings arguement.
I am replacing many parts with upgrade race components but I will be purchasing factory oem engineered Ducati bearings.
The best solution is to use a std ball race in the top and an axial thrust ball race type (same as you have for main bearings) on the bottom.
I use an axial thrust ball race in the clutch pressure plate as well because ordinary ball races are not designed to take much end thrust.
davy
I use an axial thrust ball race in the clutch pressure plate as well because ordinary ball races are not designed to take much end thrust.
davy
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