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Streetfighter V4 struggling to start on cold start

16K views 61 replies 23 participants last post by  Goosey 
#1 ·
I just got my v4 base model Streetfighter a week ago, and the last few cold starts it just doesn't start on the first two or three tries. It eventually goes after a few minutes.

I messaged the dealer and they said "these 1200cc engines usually don't start on the first try" which I think is a complete bullshit answer.

Anyone else run into this?



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#4 ·
Welcome to the wonderful world of Ducati. :)

I've never owned a fuel injected vehicle that had so many cold start and cold idle problems... FI is SUPPOSED to make this all trivial - but not for Ducati for some reason. My 1200 (and it IS actually a 1200) doesn't like sitting outside overnight if it's too cold (can cause hard starting), it doesn't like cold and humidity AT ALL (will frequently cause hard starting)... it doesn't like lithium batteries (a brand new Shorai lithium WILL NOT start the bike (without a number of start cycles to warm the battery up) if it's less than 55f or so (and the new Duc's don't have any big power draw other than the starter so you HAVE to use the starter to warm them up).

And the cold idle learn cycle really likes to get screwed up after some arbitrary period of time and will cause high idle or stall if you don't reset it occassionally.

Now... all this stuff can be dealt with (except the lithium battery problem... I just went back to lead acid to solve that), but you shouldn't have to learn that "a tiny bit of throttle when it's starting hard will always get it going... as long as you don't give it TOO MUCH throttle and flood it", or "if the idle sounds like it's going off then hold it at 1k or so for 10 seconds and it'll usually settle down".

FI should just work... but... TID.
 
#5 ·
Welcome to the wonderful world of Ducati. :)

I've never owned a fuel injected vehicle that had so many cold start and cold idle problems... FI is SUPPOSED to make this all trivial - but not for Ducati for some reason. My 1200 (and it IS actually a 1200) doesn't like sitting outside overnight if it's too cold (can cause hard starting), it doesn't like cold and humidity AT ALL (will frequently cause hard starting)... it doesn't like lithium batteries (a brand new Shorai lithium WILL NOT start the bike (without a number of start cycles to warm the battery up) if it's less than 55f or so (and the new Duc's don't have any big power draw other than the starter so you HAVE to use the starter to warm them up).

And the cold idle learn cycle really likes to get screwed up after some arbitrary period of time and will cause high idle or stall if you don't reset it occassionally.

Now... all this stuff can be dealt with (except the lithium battery problem... I just went back to lead acid to solve that), but you shouldn't have to learn that "a tiny bit of throttle when it's starting hard will always get it going... as long as you don't give it TOO MUCH throttle and flood it", or "if the idle sounds like it's going off then hold it at 1k or so for 10 seconds and it'll usually settle down".

FI should just work... but... TID.
Having owned all manner of motorcycles, the Ducs are by far the worst starters. The fact that it takes more than 3 cranks to start my fully warmed up bike with a fully charged battery is just wrong but pretty much all Ducatis are that way right out of the crate. Typical description of starting a Ducati is that it cranks for so long you think it's not going to start, then at the last second it does start.

If you replace the battery -> solenoid -> starter cable with a heavier gauge one, it will help considerably, especially with cold starts.

I will say that "a tiny bit of throttle when it's starting" is useful advice. putting your hand on the throttle and just thinking about turning it is about how much it needs but this technique definitely works for me.
 
#6 ·
I have a HM 1100s that hates cold mornings. It has taken as many as 10 attempts to start it! I never touched the throttle!

Then, one day i gave the throttle the gentlest of turns and boom! Now starts on cold days.

Go figure :D:D:D
 
#7 ·
I had the Streetfighter 848 before this, and it sucked at starting too. So I get what you all mean when you say "welcome to the world of Ducati".

I tried something different myself, I let it sit for a couple days, and then turned the key on and didn't start it. Let it boot up, and you can hear this pump sound kick in after 5 seconds or so. I started it then and it worked on the first try. It seems like I was starting it before it can get ready to start. So all is good.

That being said, excluding this starting process, it actually starts a lot better than my previous 848. That would take a few cranks before it started. But this picks up pretty quickly.

Thought I'd share this incase someone else was running into the same issue

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#10 ·
I had the Streetfighter 848 before this, and it sucked at starting too. So I get what you all mean when you say "welcome to the world of Ducati".

I tried something different myself, I let it sit for a couple days, and then turned the key on and didn't start it. Let it boot up, and you can hear this pump sound kick in after 5 seconds or so. I started it then and it worked on the first try. It seems like I was starting it before it can get ready to start. So all is good.

That being said, excluding this starting process, it actually starts a lot better than my previous 848. That would take a few cranks before it started. But this picks up pretty quickly.

Thought I'd share this incase someone else was running into the same issue

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Yup... forgot to add "let the fuel pump cycle completely before trying to start"... you get to the point where you just do this stuff automatically and don't necessarily think about it. :)
 
#8 ·
When starting any Ducati you're supposed to always wait until the fuel pump stops priming and the dash fully goes through its start up sequence before you crank over the engine. Your old 848SF may have started better if you had done that.


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#11 ·
I was wrong, this didn't fix the problem. It's still there. I read somewhere else someone said to try keeping the gas lid open when starting it, that didn't work either.

I'm going to mention it at the first service and see what they say

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#12 ·
ironically mine started first time, every time until we went to the east coast and rode for a week. I'm guessing it's something in the self learning cycle of the ecu. I'm at 3500 ft asl and we rode the smokies and that whole area for 5 days on better quality fuel. I'm hoping a good ride up here on NM crap fuel resolves it. It's taking 4-6 tries now, where she'd fire on half a crank before. We used ethanol free fuel out east 90% of the time as well.
 
#14 ·
I've been using good fuel too. The first refill I used petro canada 95, so that may have messed it up. But I've refilled around 8 times since then, and everytime I've used shell 91.

I hope using good fuel and after this long trip things go well. Keep us posted

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#13 ·
I just got my v4 base model Streetfighter a week ago, and the last few cold starts it just doesn't start on the first two or three tries. It eventually goes after a few minutes.

I messaged the dealer and they said "these 1200cc engines usually don't start on the first try" which I think is a complete bullshit answer.

Anyone else run into this?

I recent picked up the 2020 SF V4S. I had the same issue. If I try to cycle it to start too quickly it will have a hard time starting. If I turn the key to the run position, wait for all fuel systems to gain pressure and then you will hear what sounds like two relays clicking, After that sound, she starts right up. This has been very consistent. Hope this helps,
 
#15 ·
I've tried this every time. I let it start up for at least 30 seconds, I head a pump, rather than relays clicking, and I try to start it then. It worked one time, but it hasn't since. I have my first service booked for Tuesday, I'm going to me took it to them and I'll report back here.

How long were you waiting to hear the relays click?

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#18 ·
Your underground parking facility should have nothing to do with how quickly your bike starts. Parking garages have ventilation that keeps the air clean and the oxygen levels safe for humans and vehicles. If your parking garage has extremely poor air quality you would be on the floor passed out and your bike would still start in low quality air.


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#19 ·
Your underground parking facility should have nothing to do with how quickly your bike starts. Parking garages have ventilation that keeps the air clean and the oxygen levels safe for humans and vehicles. If your parking garage has poor air quality you would be on the floor passed out. And your bike would still start in low quality air.


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hahah I know. I'm trying to come up with anything, which made venture out to the irrational.
 
#20 ·
So this is weird, I had a cold start issue yesterday. It acted like it didn't want to start cold . I stood the bike up right and level and it started with no issues. It was in "N" and the kick stand was up. No issues sense then. The bike does act surprisingly different after the first service. I also found that using a battery tender has helped.
 
#21 ·
I always stick my tongue in the corner of my mouth, similar to the tongue location I use screwing in a light bulb. First start every time. I wish someone had told me about this years ago. Make sure you do tongue first, then hit the button.
 
#22 ·
I just finished with the dealership. They called their ducati rep and got a custom mapping and flashed it. It's too early to tell how it feels since I just drove it straight home from the dealership. But I'll post here when I have another cold start in 24+ hrs.
 
#26 ·
Tried the cold start yesterday and it is would start. Same problem. I spoke to them again, and they said they reflashed the ecu with the stock map, not a custom one. It definitely sounds like a fueling thing, where it's not getting enough fuel to start up. Not sure what to do now, but if anything changes I'll post again.

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#29 ·
My 1098S always takes a good 3 seconds to start from cold start, then warm engine also starts within about 2 seconds from low rev until it picks up the rev, but there are other times being a bit warm it starts within a second and even sort of revs by itself as it starts and I just live for that start-up every once in a while :)

I think that is just Ducati's and the way they are :)
 
#31 ·
Update here.

I'm at 2000kms now, and the last few hundred kms the bike has been starting from the first try everytime when cold. Two things have changed since then, and I know they're going to sound insignificant, but they are literally the only 2 variables in play.

1. Changed fuel usage from shell to Canadian Tire 91, no ethanol.

2. Put a lot of kms on the bike.

I've put a 2-3 full tanks of the new fuel, once this tank is done in going to put shell again to see if it start acting up again, to find the true culprit.

That being said, I called my dealer and they said it's most likely the air fuel mixture, and that there is a way to adjust that. I have an appointment booked, but if all is good then I'm going to cancel it.

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#32 ·
I just got my v4 base model Streetfighter a week ago, and the last few cold starts it just doesn't start on the first two or three tries. It eventually goes after a few minutes.

I messaged the dealer and they said "these 1200cc engines usually don't start on the first try" which I think is a complete bullshit answer.

Anyone else run into this?



Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk
Mine did the same thing,asked the Mechanic at the dealership and he asked what fuel i was using which was 98 octane, he said to use 95 octane ... next tank fill used 95 havent had a problem since
 
#33 ·
I'm on a EU version of the bike, so the mapping may be slightly different from US. But it has ALWAYS started on the very first crank, cold or hot, with both lead acid and Lithium battery. I don't need to wait for fuel pump prime, any clicks or dash to boot. Just turn the key and hit the starter button. Fuel in Sweden use up to 5% ethanol. So just because it is a Ducati, we should not accept that it doesn't work as intended. Because it obviously can.
 
#37 ·
G'day all Street Fighters........ I was thinking of you all last thursday........ read on ;)

While I was sipping :coffee: at my local Ducati HQ, a V4SF was wheeled out for a punter to take on a test ride.

Embarrassingly it took 3-4 attempts, each time it started it would stall o_O , until finally it held it's idle. It is not cold over here in Brisbane Au so it wasn't climate related, and a trained Ducati staffer was the one starting the bike for the potential customer.........

So I asked the sales guy I bought my V4S MS from, and he said the V4SF's were a bastard to start until they had about 6k kms on them (4k miles) - they have a very small battery to save weight and space, and the engines are very tight until fully run in. The guy was a bike mechanic before he became a sales manager so he wasn't spruiking sales BS, and my V4S MS still has a tight engine with 1,676kms (1050mls)...... though the V4 MS has much bigger battery plates and starts easily from new.........

(y)

FYI...If you are unaware of this... always let a modern FI bike do it's ECU check cycle before pressing the starter, and never add throttle to help it start........ once the motor loosens up it'll start more easily.

Also, maybe consider a higher CCA rated battery if you don't do many miles in a season's riding - the stock battery (without checking the specs) is probably only a 230cca Yuasa lead acid with very small plate/cell size. A high quality Lithium battery should have more cranking capacity, but it will need cell equalizing technology built in and a Li-Ion charger to prevent bursting into flames. Li-Ion batteries don't like extreme cold conditions and can take a few seconds to warm up (eg key on and wait) before they will work. They also don't like being constantly charged while not in use (typically they should be stored long term at 60% charge from memory - Shorai manual - Google Shorai specs and charging info).

I didn't have any issue with my KTM 1290 SDGT, but after I put a 350cca lead acid accessory battery in, I noticed it started far better than before with the stock 230cca Yuasa. I don't need to use a battery tender and rarely charge a battery (no snow and regular riding all year round) so I can't comment on long frozen winter storage strategies.

(y)
 
#39 ·
G'day all Street Fighters........ I was thinking of you all last thursday........ read on ;)

While I was sipping :coffee: at my local Ducati HQ, a V4SF was wheeled out for a punter to take on a test ride.

Embarrassingly it took 3-4 attempts, each time it started it would stall o_O , until finally it held it's idle. It is not cold over here in Brisbane Au so it wasn't climate related, and a trained Ducati staffer was the one starting the bike for the potential customer.........

So I asked the sales guy I bought my V4S MS from, and he said the V4SF's were a bastard to start until they had about 6k kms on them (4k miles) - they have a very small battery to save weight and space, and the engines are very tight until fully run in. The guy was a bike mechanic before he became a sales manager so he wasn't spruiking sales BS, and my V4S MS still has a tight engine with 1,676kms (1050mls)...... though the V4 MS has much bigger battery plates and starts easily from new.........

(y)

FYI...If you are unaware of this... always let a modern FI bike do it's ECU check cycle before pressing the starter, and never add throttle to help it start........ once the motor loosens up it'll start more easily.

Also, maybe consider a higher CCA rated battery if you don't do many miles in a season's riding - the stock battery (without checking the specs) is probably only a 230cca Yuasa lead acid with very small plate/cell size. A high quality Lithium battery should have more cranking capacity, but it will need cell equalizing technology built in and a Li-Ion charger to prevent bursting into flames. Li-Ion batteries don't like extreme cold conditions and can take a few seconds to warm up (eg key on and wait) before they will work. They also don't like being constantly charged while not in use (typically they should be stored long term at 60% charge from memory - Shorai manual - Google Shorai specs and charging info).

I didn't have any issue with my KTM 1290 SDGT, but after I put a 350cca lead acid accessory battery in, I noticed it started far better than before with the stock 230cca Yuasa. I don't need to use a battery tender and rarely charge a battery (no snow and regular riding all year round) so I can't comment on long frozen winter storage strategies.

(y)
Thanks for the reply @DaveAu. That's really helpful information, and I hope others with this issue can benefit from it.

I believe what this sales rep told you. I have around 4500kms on the bike now and it hasn't done this once since I last posted.

I actually found the culprit though. When I was riding the bike back from the dealership, I refueled at an esso gas station off the highway. I've read reviews online of this gas station having bad fuel. I didn't believe it. But it was truly the case. The way I found out was I had just recently bought a Ford Raptor, and it has a high compression engine with twin turbo. I refueled at the same station! And the same thing happened to my car, I kid you not.

I'm never refueling there, even if I run out of gas on the highway.

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#38 ·
Sounds like there's an issue with Op's bike. My '21 starts up first try even down to 40 ish degree temps. If it's colder than that I don't ride. The only time it stalls out is when I forget the kickstand...Shell or Mobil premium is what I use. I do keep the tender on it as a practice. Here in US winter gas has more volatiles in it. Summer gas less. Perhaps that's an issue, idk.
 
#40 ·
Yes it's amazing, the V4's have 14:1 compression ratio when I thought 13.6 to 1 was pushing the limits for a street engine running ordinary ULP fuel........ yet the V4 is approved to run on 95 octane or higher (Ducati manual), thanks to the wonders of advanced electronics and vvt......

Certainly contaminated or stale fuel doesn't help anyone and gas station managers should get their tanks cleaned regularly - I prefer to use gas stations that are busy, figuring since they sell a lot of fuel they should always have fresh fuel in stock.

(y)
 
#41 ·
I have the same issue as the OP. I also wait for the two clicks and a few moments after that I'll start. I've been giving it some throttle at startup if it doesn't work the second time, but I'm not sure if it's doing anything since it's ride by wire and probably fully automated. Someone chime in on whether or not that's true.
 
#42 · (Edited)
G'day azt108, (sorry i just realized I had posted the same info 9 mths ago...... Dementia setting in :eek::LOL:...... and a little distracted watching the MGp recording for Assen.....)

How 'new' is your V4SF ?

I witnessed a brand new V4SF starting and stalling at my local Ducati dealership...... it was a new sale with the sales guy starting the bike for the customer, but it was notable because it stalled 6 times before it idled normally. The sales guy said the V4SF needed 5k kms (or about 3k of your miles) to free up enough to idle 1st press of the starter. No throttle should be used. It's a tight, close tolerance engine, with a tiny little battery trying to wake it up.

My V4S Multi didn't have any startup issues as it has a much bigger battery, but it too has become a different beast with 3k miles onboard..........

Hang in there, it's just normal for them, frustrating for sure, but it should get better soon........ or you could fit a higher CCA Lithium Ion battery :unsure:

PS In my 'review' of previous posts saw that your winter/summer fuels also have an effect - we get the same fuel all year over here so I have no experience with your conditions. I use 98 octane (95 if that's all that's available). 14:1 comp engine won't like low octane or stale fuel ;)
 
#44 ·
I have the same problem. Here is what I noticed though. Through the winter I didn’t have much of a problem, but during the summer with hot and humid air it seems to happen a lot more.

Here is when it happens:

1. Run bike, turn off while hot.
2. Let the bike cool off for hours or over night.
3. Attempt to start bike (again, it seems when it is hot(ish) weather (~80F+)
4. Bike will be very hard to start, it will take multiple attempts, sometimes up to 5 or 6.

What seemed to work (assuming bike was shut down hot and starting in hot/humid weather as above):

1. Turn key on, let bike initialize completely. I don’t remember if I had to try to start it once or not, I don’t think so. Too late to go try.
2. Turn key off.
3. Turn key on, let bike initialize completely.
4. Start bike, it always starts doing this.

Good luck. Would love to know if someone else gets the same result.
I suspect the bike is remembering its state when it gets turned off and has the ”shutdown hot” in memory. What the ambient air temp and/or humidity has to do with it, I have no idea.
 
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