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Still coolant goes down and oil up...

3K views 25 replies 6 participants last post by  tricklidz 
#1 ·
Ok, so my water pump seal lasted 500 miles and now I'm back at having the oil go up and the water down.

I looked at the diagram again and I discovered that there's actually a locating ring under the seal ring which was not there when I disassembled and of course, I didn't reinstall it

Attached is a picture...

Could some of you confirm is actually there, or post some pictures that might help?

If I get it correctly the assembled sequence is:

OUTSIDE mechanical seal - ceramic washer - seal ring - locating ring - ALTERNATOR COVER - inner spacer - sealed bearing - unsealed bearing - outer spacer with counterbore - snap ring - INSIDE

I'm still very confused at to why it was not there, but I guess that's part of having very limited record of the bike...
 

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Discussion starter · #5 ·
You know what: you're absolutely right. That Coteco seal is actually the one on the gear selector shaft. The lines kinda threw me off.

However in the workshop manual there is a "locating ring" that you press in with a drift. I can't find it on the parts manual but I'll post the pages of the manual later.

Do you know anything about this locating ring?

When I replaced my mechanical seal I replaced both so the ceramic race is new...

Sent from my Nexus One
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I've uploaded the section of the Workshop Manual that deals with the waterpump here: Free Cloud Storage - MediaFire

If you reed through it it talks about a "locating ring" that is pressed in before the rubber seal and the ceramic race.

I'm still trying to figure out what this is so any help is very much appreciated
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
From the diagram in your workbook, it's the same as the number 26 item in the Ducati service manual (ceramic seal)
Precisely! But then in the procedure it talks about the locating ring as something other than the seal and ceramic race. It also describes it as something pushed out with a drift after the back spacer is removed and something reinstalled with a special tool.

:banghead::confused::banghead:

Sent from my Nexus One
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Without having the cover in my hands to look at, I would be willing to bet that the part you are referring to is just a steal collar that the bearings ride in in stead of the bearings being pressed directly into the aluminum cover.

Doesn't really help with our problem, but that's my guess to that question.
I wouldn't agree, because in the reassembling instructions you press in the bearings before the mysterious locating ring.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Really? ( on my phone and wasn't able to see you attachment earlier). I plan on pulling my cover off when I get home today, so I will take a look and post some pictures as I go of my findings.
I really appreciate it!!!

In the meantime I've been able to find a copy of the workshop manual for a Monster S4: the procedure states:

Reassembly
Clean seat in the cover, any parts
you will be reusing and rotor shaft.
Lubricate with engine oil and refit as
follows:
▲ fit the new seal (1) on the rotor
shaft;
▲ working on the inside of the
cover, fit the inner spacer (2) with
the sharp edge facing outwards;
▲ using a drift on the outer ring,
push the bearing (3) against the
spacer (2) with the shielded end
facing into the cover;
▲ fit the other bearing (4). Push
until fully home;
▲ fit the two screws with washer
and tighten them to specified
torque;
▲ now turn over the cover and fit
the locating ring (5). Position ring as
shown in figure and push it until it
contacts spacer (2);
▲ insert the rotor shaft (6) and the
seal. Turn over cover again.

I'm starting to think that what the 999S workshop manual says is a typo in the sense that the locating ring is the combination of seal ring and ceramic race.

In the past they used to do the assembly with the special tool, then they just first assemble the seal ring then the ceramic race.

I dunno, but I'll look forward to see what you find in there...
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Based in the diagram in the workshop manual the ceramic ring should have a side with rounded edges. That side should be the smooth side and it would face outward.

Do you have a dial indicator to check if the shaft is out of axle? Where you able to determine the leaking steel from there?

Sent from my Nexus One
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Btw, the 999 doesn't have the spacer between the two bearings and I know the overall width of our case is narrower

Also, could you confirm your bearing only had one seal? Mine had two, the one I bought from the dealer has two, but the workshop manual says it's only one.

Sent from my Nexus One
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I was not able to see anything that stuck out as a possible problem. I am thinking that my ceramic seal was flipped around though. (fingers crossed that that was the problem).

And yes, the one bearing was definitely only sealed on the one side, and not both.

I will fit it all back together tonight and see how it goes this weekend.
Definitely there's something odd going on here: my bearing had both shields, the inspection plug was loose at some point and the bolts assembling the case were out of sequence, and I'm missing the inner washer on the bolt with the wire that holds the cam timing sensor.

I'm starting to think somebody at some point fucked up something in there...
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
In my case things have stopped: 200 miles more and everything is normal.

I suspect that there was some air trapped in the system and I'm starting to think that if an air bubble hits the seal it can disturb it and create a temporary leak...

Sent from my Nexus One
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
I just dug up this thread hoping someone had/fixed the water pump issue I've been having. We'll I hope it's the mechanical nylon seal.

Did both of you figure out the issue? I'm pulling my 03 749 apart now and hoping to fix my chocolate milk issue...
Actually thanks for that: I've been wanting to update but then got lazy...

My problem was actually due to a bit ingenuity on my side. When I replaced my pump seal I also replaced the hoses with silicon from Samco: I figured it was the right time. As you probably know, silicon hoses are kind of temperamental to hold a seal and they required a higher torque (thus clamping force) that rubber hoses. Long story short, my leak was actually caused by some fluid seeping by the coolant lines and got solved by replacing a couple of weaker clamps and torquing them down further (I set all of them at 4Nm... You can get rubber to hold at 2Nm).

And for the record, the stock clamps from Ducati are made by Norma, and are good quality. However they can give up when you go around 4Nm. My suggestion would be to replace them as they break with something stronger. ABA clamps sold by McMaster-Carr as as good as it gets. The cost right around 3-4 bucks each and they're better of both Ducati's and the one that you would by from Samco.

So bottom line my pump seal was fine after replaced it the first time. The seal is made of of two parts: a static race (made of ceramic, not nylon) that seats over a rubber cup and spring loaded seal mounted to the pump shaft. Replace all of them. Polish the pump shaft to remove any deposit and lube the shaft carefully to ensure the seal slides over without tears or damages. I would also suggest replacing the pump bearings: if the seal was leaking it probably got into the bearing ruining the ceramic race.

Check also the outer bearing of the crank.

Given how the Testastretta motor is built there's pretty much no other place where coolant can go in the oil without vice-versa or without affecting the way the bike runs.
 
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