Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Does an ST3 only start in neutral after I stall in gear? I'm sure it wasn't always so.
I looked in the manual and handbook, but it didn't mention this restriction.
Living in a city, it's a bit dangerous to stall, then in a panic have to find neutral before the starter button becomes functional.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
You should be able to simply pull the clutch and restart while in gear. I, too, have stalled many times in heavy traffic and had to restart while in gear and it's always worked.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You would expect that the procedure would be
1. Stall in gear due to lazy throttle input and clutch I s fuller released
2. identify engine is stalled, so engage clutch and coast momentarily
3. Hit starter, engine restarts, release clutch and back to normal

Unfortunately, even with clutch in, the starter is inoperable until it's in neutral.

As mentioned, I'm sure it wasn't like this when I first owned it and it stalled a lot (until 2 years later I got it running very nicely across the RPM range, but that's a long story of how I became a gumtree Ducati tuner and ECU remapper)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,647 Posts
Have you recently installed aftermarket levers on the bike? The toggle on the lever for the clutch safety bypass switch may not have been included. It has been an issue for others. The other possibility, especially if you have not changed levers and you used to be able to start the bike in gear with the clutch in, is simply the plunger switch under the clutch lever is damaged or the bracket holding it is bent out of position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,166 Posts
Had this happen to me regarding my NTM '03 ST4s.

I wouldn't start after stalling except when I found neutral.

Checked everywhere. It turned out to be the little button switch under the clutch lever housing. The clutch lever, when pulled in, pushes the button and it bypasses the kill function.

In my case, the button switch is mounted by the lever thru bolt. It is held in place by a slightly flimsy bracket and was bent so the lever didn't impact the button and allow starting.

Check out the electrics first. You must be mounted on bike for this:

In first gear;
key on; red kill switch on to avoid motor actually starting;
push clutch button switch in; hit starter momentarily. Just a tiny bit.

Starter should engage and it should lurch forward. If it does, system works and you need to adjust the button switch.

Steve
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,232 Posts
That micro switch on my ST3 broke a few years ago. Darned expensive part (about $70) for what it actually is and how crappy it's made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the advice on micro switch. No new levers installed since my 2 year ownership. It does makes sense that could be the problem as I'm sure it wasn't always this way. Hopefully it's out of adjustment only. Will check tonight and report back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,166 Posts
it is the switch mounting bracket which is adjustable. It's rather flimsy and can be knocked out of proper alignment with the clutch lever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
After work Christmas Eve enjoyable, engine cleansing ride 180km down to a quite south coast beach town for family Christmas. Just investigated the clutch switch and it was in 2 pieces.

Tried the suggestions after stalling in gear with the front brake on and 1000rpm and can confirm the switch mechanism does bypass the neutral requirement for restart after in gear stall.

Just need to fix the switch (the plunger pin seems to be missing an extension to operate the intact switch mechanism) or source a new one.

Merry Christmas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
I know its an old thread but here goes, my 2003 ST4S exhibits the same behaviour. Although the clutch lever housing is drilled to accept a microswitch
as per the brake lever there is no switch fitted. It is a EURO model. It has the painted tank cover. The side stand cut out works as designed.
Two people I know have EURO ST4s, a little earlier as they have the unpainted tank covers, their bikes start in gear with the clutch pulled.
They also have no micro switches. an online parts explosion and an official workshop manual (ST4) also show no clutch switch.
Can anyone with this model confirm this behaviour ? Do you have a clutch switch ? Could it be the ECU ?

Regards,
Andy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,977 Posts
first model with a sidestand logic circuit that we saw was 2003 st4s. i know we fitted a dp kit with the ecu to one and it lost the "run with stand down".

1.6m ecu in st2 and st4 are not enabled to support this kind of circuit.

so 2003 > st4s, all st3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
hello brad thanks for your comment. just to clarify i have no problem with the sidestand cut-out it seems to be working ok, problem is the engine cannot be restarted with sidestand up,
in gear and clutch pulled, it is necessary to select neutral before it will start. As far as I am aware the ecu is stock. I initially thought that my missing clutch lever microswitch was the reason it would not start but then checked with 2 different 2001/2002 models which also had no clutch switch but permitted in gear starting. Not sure if it is relevant but it is a non ABS model. I have not yet got an official wiring schematic but found this here
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachm...raft-criticisms-please-st4sloom-1st-draft.png
it also does not seem to have a clutch switch.

This thread seems to indicate that 2002 to 2003 some additional changes came in which might explain if my clutch switch had been removed or clutch damaged by PO.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/616169-st4s-clutch-switch.html
So i would then presumably need to find an unused 2 way plug housing somewhere in the loom, I wonder if anyone knows where exactly this is located ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,977 Posts
the starting logic circuit involves the side stand switch, clutch switch and neutral switch, as they are all inputs to the ecu.

so if it is in gear, but the clutch lever is not in (or far enough in for the switch to be activated, ie, against fingers), the ecu won't allow it to start.

earlier models without the starting logic enabled ecu circuits don't give a shit what you're doing.
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,831 Posts
Just short the side stand switch at the connector and you can start the bike in gear. There is a bit of risk there (bike moving if in gear or riding with the side stand down), but I have not had a single problem in the last 7 or so years that mine has been that way.

Have a good one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,977 Posts
Just short the side stand switch at the connector and you can start the bike in gear. There is a bit of risk there (bike moving if in gear or riding with the side stand down), but I have not had a single problem in the last 7 or so years that mine has been that way.

Have a good one.
not a bike that is equipped with the starter logic circuit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
thanks for all of your messages.
It seems then that the problem really is the missing clutch switch.
I will try and simulate an input on p33 of the ecu and if it then works will need to find that loom connector and fit a switch.
@Brad according to the logic table supplied all but the last scenario apply to mine.
Now I had time to check it more closely the wiring scheme provided in my link does indeed show a p33 connection for 2003.

Regards, Andy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,977 Posts
i would expect the connector to be on the fairing support frame stuff at the lh side - pretty sure the wire would go forward to that. but that's just a guess as to where to start. probably two round bullet style terminals.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top