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I yam what I yam
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Greetings!

I'm toying with the idea of replacing my '01 VFR with an ST3.

Is there anyone here with experience with both bikes who can compare ergos? Specifically I'm concerned about seat to pegs and reach to bars.
I'm 6'3" and dont want to be any more cramped than I am on the VFR.

I live in a remote part of Northern CA, unfortunately no ST3s nearby for me to climb on.

Thanks
Michael
 

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Still needs a life.
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One factor to consider is servicing the ST3. Will you be servicing it yourself? Honda dealers are everywhere. Ducati dealers are scarce and good Ducati dealers can be even more scarce.
 

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My last bike was a 2001 VFR, and now I ride a 2003 ST4s. I am 6'2" and I believe the ergos are just as good, if not better. I have ridden both bikes on 400+ miles in a day, the only difference was the smile on my face after I got off the Ducati. But really the seating position and ergos are pretty similar. I do feel I am able to sit up a bit more on the Ducati. I do not feel I lost anything in the transition, but feel I have gained a lot. There are a lot of aftermarket options still available for the ST series including ergo alterations. (Peg lowering, bar risers, etc.) You should probably still take a test ride on it, and the maintenance takes slightly more work. A lot of people move to doing their own maintenance like I did, and I enjoy the bike even more.

On another note, that 2010 VFR does look pretty sweet with the 1200cc engine!
 

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I've had three VFR's. A early 90's an 01 and a 06. Honda DESTROYED this bike with the addition of the VTEC in my opinion. I had my 06 for about 2 months, put new pipes and a power commander on it. Tried to smooth out the vtech crap. In short, feels like a turbo kicking in. SUPER LAME in the middle of a turn if you ask me. The guy who bought it from me kept it less than a week.... He almost killed himself as the power increased on him in an aggressive turn... I can only hope that the 2010 model is MUCH better/ done away with the VTECH.

I now have a 98 ST2. I'm only 5'8. I'm guessing that the reach would be nice at your height but I would also guess that your knees are going to get sore. While riding I've thought to myself that the bike would be a touch cramped for 6'0" and above. Just my .02 worth.

I would say, the Honda does run like a sewing machine. Which is nice, as it's smooth and (aside from vtech) steady. But, it also is somewhat boring compared to the ducati. The ST feels more alive and in a good way wants more input from the rider.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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Here you go. Also if you can find a back copy of Sport Rider Dec. 2006 it's a complete road test comparison of the bikes.

 

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I've had three VFR's. A early 90's an 01 and a 06. Honda DESTROYED this bike with the addition of the VTEC in my opinion. I had my 06 for about 2 months, put new pipes and a power commander on it. Tried to smooth out the vtech crap. In short, feels like a turbo kicking in. SUPER LAME in the middle of a turn if you ask me. The guy who bought it from me kept it less than a week.... He almost killed himself as the power increased on him in an aggressive turn... I can only hope that the 2010 model is MUCH better/ done away with the VTECH.

I now have a 98 ST2. I'm only 5'8. I'm guessing that the reach would be nice at your height but I would also guess that your knees are going to get sore. While riding I've thought to myself that the bike would be a touch cramped for 6'0" and above. Just my .02 worth.

I would say, the Honda does run like a sewing machine. Which is nice, as it's smooth and (aside from vtech) steady. But, it also is somewhat boring compared to the ducati. The ST feels more alive and in a good way wants more input from the rider.
I agree that the VTECH made the bike worse. The Ducati is much nicer with its low end torque smoothly pulling into high rev horsepower.

No problem with my knees. No different than the VFR in that respect.

BTW, Duckman, nice graphic. A picture is worth a thousand words. :yeah:
 

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I now have a 98 ST2. I'm only 5'8. I'm guessing that the reach would be nice at your height but I would also guess that your knees are going to get sore. While riding I've thought to myself that the bike would be a touch cramped for 6'0" and above. Just my .02 worth.
I would have to disagree. I'm 6'-04" and wear 36"-38" inseams and my knees never get sore. I'm 46 years old. My experience has been that the body is pretty adept at adapting to new positions, especially if you take it on a few long rides once in a while. Tendons and muscles loosen and stretrch to accomodate. I have lower back pain and the more I ride my ST, the less trouble my back gives me and it never bothers me while I ride.

My 2002 ST4s has stock bars and pegs and, if anything, the custom seat puts me slightly closer to the pegs. When I made the seat I purposefully lowered the seating position as far as the stock pan would allow (and still leave room for a bit of foam). I ride up to 300-400 miles of twisties and secondary roads in a day and have never had a problem with leg or knee comfort, stopping only before I feel my brain begin to tire. In fact, I really like the ST ergos.
 

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At 6'0", 34" inseam I have comfortably put on 600 miles in a day on my ST4s.
 

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...Tried to smooth out the vtech crap. In short, feels like a turbo kicking in. SUPER LAME in the middle of a turn if you ask me. The guy who bought it from me kept it less than a week.... He almost killed himself as the power increased on him in an aggressive turn... I can only hope that the 2010 model is MUCH better/ done away with the VTECH....
I wonder if you tried a taller gear ratio to address that "turbo" feel at the wrong time or if that would even work with the lower torque of the VFR's 800cc V-4. Having owned a V-max, I gotta say I loved that feeling when the v-boost kicked in, though it did catch me out a few times even if it was totally predicable at around 6K rpm.

Isn't that rider position graphic from a "comparo" article where the ST3 "won" over the others? There is at least one such article, ie the ST3 "winning" over the VFR, which is probably the only time that ever happened, ie a VFR not winning a comparo with like bikes. I think that says a lot about the ST3.

People have been waiting for decades for a litre VFR. I hope the above mentioned article is not more rumor/hype like the v-5 rumour, because then that may lead to a v-4 "Italian Red" bike, actually from Italy. ;)
 

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I didn't get into changing any of the gearing on the VFR. I've never been so disappointed with a motorcycle as I was with the 06 VFR. If I could have put the older version VFR engine in it, I would have kept it. My opinion only, they ruined the bike with the vtech engine. The 'boost' or whatever you want to call it was NOT smooth, and I had a few people look at the bike. I either needed to get deep into it or sell it. I sold it. I emphasized to the buyer that these bikes felt different than most, even encouraged the buyer to ride one/rent one before buying... As I said before, he sold it ASAP after buying it...

I'm happier with the ducati, even WITH ALL of the issues I've encountered so far in my short ownership of the bike. Good to hear that it fits taller riders well.
 

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Mr Leakered
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Stryder: No. If you google VFR spyshots, you'll see a very tasty looking Honda out in the desert with a couple other details. Considering the past success, esp in comparos, I have a funny feeling that a new VFR might set the entire ST industry on its ear.

That and the maintanence intervals and costs of a 1098 powered ST, may not be a good thing. Here's to hoping Duc has something up their sleeve.

Have a good one.
 

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I yam what I yam
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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the replies everybody!

Great graphic DuckMan, a picture truely is worth a thousand words.

Michael
 

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Life is too short to worry !
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People have been waiting for decades for a litre VFR. I hope the above mentioned article is not more rumor/hype like the v-5 rumour, because then that may lead to a v-4 "Italian Red" bike, actually from Italy. ;)
I hope Ducati do not choose to go down the V4 route , just another overweight sport-TOURER , the 1098/1198 both have ample power and civility for a SPORT-tourer in the ST vein - I would not replace my 4s with one of these big beastie's (Will wait and see what bias Honda will put on it but if it weighs 250Kg + then I wont be looking at it no matter the power output. The comparative power-weight ratio of these bikes Blackbird/GTR1400/K1200GT etc are all similar to the 4s but when you get to a twisty road you cant beat less weight IMO !
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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I hope Ducati do not choose to go down the V4 route , just another overweight sport-TOURER , the 1098/1198 both have ample power and civility for a SPORT-tourer in the ST vein - I would not replace my 4s with one of these big beastie's (Will wait and see what bias Honda will put on it but if it weighs 250Kg + then I wont be looking at it no matter the power output. The comparative power-weight ratio of these bikes Blackbird/GTR1400/K1200GT etc are all similar to the 4s but when you get to a twisty road you cant beat less weight IMO !
Exactly. This, to me, is what makes the ST a "sport" tourer.
 

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I hope Ducati do not choose to go down the V4 route , just another overweight sport-TOURER , the 1098/1198 both have ample power and civility for a SPORT-tourer in the ST vein - I would not replace my 4s with one of these big beastie's (Will wait and see what bias Honda will put on it but if it weighs 250Kg + then I wont be looking at it no matter the power output. The comparative power-weight ratio of these bikes Blackbird/GTR1400/K1200GT etc are all similar to the 4s but when you get to a twisty road you cant beat less weight IMO !

I hear you. If I was to upgrade to a new Ducati ST, (like one is coming out, eh) a 848 would do me fine; however, there are those buyers who simply must have "the best" and I'm sure a Ducati V-four would be based on the D-16 engine, and how sexy would that be? If Honda does deliver the 1200 cc V-four, ie adding displacment to an existing engine, I agree, it will probably be as inelegant as those other GT bikes you mention. Start with MotoGP championship winning technology, and more power is not always more weight.
 

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...I'm happier with the ducati, even WITH ALL of the issues I've encountered so far in my short ownership of the bike....
Funny how that works. Try and explain that feeling to someone who feels motorcycling is all about bang for buck power, or "reliability" and they'll have no idea what you're talking about. They're the same ones who don't get the "soul" thing either. :)
 

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Mr Leakered
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I hope Ducati do not choose to go down the V4 route , just another overweight sport-TOURER , the 1098/1198 both have ample power and civility for a SPORT-tourer in the ST vein - I would not replace my 4s with one of these big beastie's (Will wait and see what bias Honda will put on it but if it weighs 250Kg + then I wont be looking at it no matter the power output. The comparative power-weight ratio of these bikes Blackbird/GTR1400/K1200GT etc are all similar to the 4s but when you get to a twisty road you cant beat less weight IMO !
+1 I'm holding on to my ST as long as I can. I'm hoping until the electric ST revolution. ;)

There's nothing that excites me about a long range 1098. $110/belt, you kidding me? I guess, at least we can measure the closers without a depressor.

Have a good one.
 

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Still needs a life.
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There's nothing that excites me about a long range 1098. $110/belt, you kidding me? I guess, at least we can measure the closers without a depressor.

Have a good one.
Not to mention higher insurance rates. Insurance companies draw a line in the sand at 1,000 cc.
 

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I'm a newbie to this forum and to ST's but I thought I'd throw in my $.02 because I too was worried about the ergo's on a 2000 ST2 that I just recently bought.

I'm 57, 5' 11", 30" inseam, 170 lbs.

As background, I have always had problems with back pain and occasionally my wrists when riding. I have never really ridden sport or sport-touring configured bikes. For instance, my '99 Triumph Speed Triple in stock form made my wrists ache (fixed with bar risers and ¾” setback). And in stock trim it is a bit more upright than the ST. The peg position is certainly higher than my ST2. Anyway, that said, the comfort factor on the ST2 has been nothing short of amazing to me. I haven’t done anything longer that about 250 miles so far but I have never been more comfortable on a motocycle. That said, this Ducati came with 1” bar risers and a Dr. Desmo peg lowering kit. My guess is that these two items have a lot to do with easy riding position.

As a final observation, I have a friend with a 2000 VFR and once I rode that once for 30 miles and I thought my wrists were going to spontaneously combust.
 
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