[FrozenInCND]

Well after a few years of watching eBay I finally have a 1100evo in my possession:grin2:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=637522&stc=1&d=1448247972

So what's the next step? The engine is out of a 2010 hyper, and seems to be in very good shape. I'm going to have to come up with some creative machining to make up a adapter to except bearings in the case to accept my monster S2R SSSA, but I think I'm up to the challenge. My bigger concern is the wiring, I know a little but not a lot about electronics. I'm hoping to use the SS800 electronics with the 800 throttle bodys (sounds strange but there there the same size), I'm hoping with the help of an piggy back tuner (Bazzaz or Power Comander) and a custom map I can get it running strong. Any incite would be greatly appreciated.


http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=637530&stc=1&d=1448247972

 

[ducatidoc]

This mod has been on my list for a while, am slowly accruing the parts to do it.

Isn't the evo motor a single spark though?

 

[Cyclops7]

You should be able to get someone to load the ignition and fuel map out of the 1100 motor's ecu into your 800's ecu and away you go. I have a 999 with a 1098 motor in it done this way(running through all the 999 wiring harness and dash) no problem.

 

[FrozenInCND]

Thanks for the info Cyclops, any recommendations on a company that can reflash the CPU?

 

[FrozenInCND]

This mod has been on my list for a while, am slowly accruing the parts to do it.

Isn't the evo motor a single spark though?

Yup it is, so that is yet another thing the same as the 800.

 

[bradblack]

this may be of some help, about half way down.

Fitting a 2013 M1100 Engine into a 2000 M900ie Frame!

 

[brettski]

Thanks for the info Cyclops, any recommendations on a company that can reflash the CPU?

I had Houston Superbikes flash my 800 ECU recently. I called them to ask some questions before sending it our and they were very helpful. Houston Superbikes

 

[Poopypuss]

Done this conversion.

No need for power commander. I remapped the ECU that came with the 900 and the injectors and throttle bodies etc.

There are mechanical hurdles in that the timing gear is wrong so we made another one, the temp sensors are the wrong way round on the engine and it is still not clear to me what impact this has. And the front sprocket is not lined up so I had to buy a spacer, having gone through a set of sprockets and chain in about 1000 miles!

Anyway, once remapped the engine gives off more power than it does when it is in a Monster. See chart.

It actually ran nearly to that power without doing anything (the remap only gave 10% extra at 5000rpm, peak power was the same) but it was too lean and did not like to start.

 

[Punch]

the temp sensors are the wrong way round on the engine and it is still not clear to me what impact this has.

There are two temperature sensors.

The sensor on the RHS in the oil strainer is to show oil temperature on the dash as does not influence the ECU operation/fuelling.

The sensor on the head is measuring (obviously) head temperature and does affect fuelling.
The volatility (vaporisation) of fuel varies with temperature. At lower temperatures the amount of fuel injected is increased to ensure enough fuel is vaporised to achieve a combustible mixture. As the head temperature increases as the engine warms up, the amount of extra fuel is reduced as vaporisation increases due to the hotter head.

The attachment shows the engine and air temperature fuel table multipliers for my 900SSe engine.

If you have them the wrong way around, then fuelling will be incorrect until the engine gets up to around 70 degrees C.
E.g. if engine temp is 17 deg C, using the air temp sensor would add 1%, whereas the engine temp table would be adding 9%.
I.e. quite lean and probably quite difficult to start.

 

[FrozenInCND]

Done this conversion.

No need for power commander. I remapped the ECU that came with the 900 and the injectors and throttle bodies etc.

There are mechanical hurdles in that the timing gear is wrong so we made another one, the temp sensors are the wrong way round on the engine and it is still not clear to me what impact this has. And the front sprocket is not lined up so I had to buy a spacer, having gone through a set of sprockets and chain in about 1000 miles!

Anyway, once remapped the engine gives off more power than it does when it is in a Monster. See chart.

It actually ran nearly to that power without doing anything (the remap only gave 10% extra at 5000rpm, peak power was the same) but it was too lean and did not like to start.

I'm wondering if I will have the same issues with the 800 to 1100evo. My 800 SS is a 07 so it's a new model than your 900, what changed from the 800 to 900? What's different on the timing gear?

Thanks for your response.
Lenard

 

[FrozenInCND]

Thanks Punch.

 

[Poopypuss]

Thanks Punch. To be honest it is a slightly awkward starter when hot or cold so not sure whether me getting the temp sensors the wrong way round would impact when hot, based on what you say?

I can't tell you what mods were made to the timing gear I am afraid. I outsourced the engine work and the remapping. Afraid I also do not know what differences there are between 800 and 900 or 02 and 07. I suspect nothing ecu-wise, wiring and getting the chain lined up properly.

 

[Punch]

I'm wondering if I will have the same issues with the 800 to 1100evo. My 800 SS is a 07 so it's a new model than your 900, what changed from the 800 to 900? What's different on the timing gear?

Thanks for your response.
Lenard

Not that it affects what you want to do, but the main thing with engine control was a change in ECU.
The 900 uses the 15M ECU and the throttle and RPM breaks are a 16 x 16 table. The 900 uses a non-linear throttle position sensor and the TP breaks are biassed to "bunched" close together from 2.4 or so to 30 degrees.

The 800, depending upon the year uses the 59M or 5AM (the latter is according to the 2006 service manual here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71253082/Ducati SS 800 - Service Manual.pdf courtesy of forum member tonered)
These 5X ECUs have 32 RPM break points and 20 TP breakpoints. Significantly they us a linear TP sensor. You can read more on Brad Black's web site here. BikeBoy.org - Ducati 2V Non Linear TPS Baseline Adjustment

The 15M TP "base" setting is done by rotating it and the 5X is set electronically.

If your 800 does have the 5AM ECU, then you are in luck as it is possible to use Guzzi Reader and Writer software, in conjunction with TunerPro to change the maps. This is of course only an option if there is an XDF for your 800 to "translate" the BIN file into what humans can understand.

I have a thread thread on mapping and logging in the Tech Forum section if you are interested in going down that route.
I have written a guide that shows you what hardware and software is required for logging and mapping and it contains info for you to use just for mapping.
It is attached to this post. Unfortunately the site that was growing with BIN files and XDFs has gone, so you will need to do some searching.

 

[Punch]

Thanks Punch. To be honest it is a slightly awkward starter when hot or cold so not sure whether me getting the temp sensors the wrong way round would impact when hot, based on what you say?

I can't tell you what mods were made to the timing gear I am afraid. I outsourced the engine work and the remapping. Afraid I also do not know what differences there are between 800 and 900 or 02 and 07. I suspect nothing ecu-wise, wiring and getting the chain lined up properly.

When hot the correction is about the same irrespective of which sensor is connected to the ECU, but your bin file will tell more.

There is also a start enrichment map which I presume adds to the base fuel map.
Just guessing here, if those values are not high enough, as in still set to 900 values, then maybe not enough fuel during cranking??

Timing gear - it may be that the missing teeth are in a different position - again just a guess.

ECU - I covered that in my previous post.

Can you post your bin file please, assuming that you have the correct cables and Guzzi Reader. When you have it, just copy it and paste it somewhere else, like your desktop, then change the .bin to .pdf so it can be attached in this thread via Manage Attachments. Do you know what injectors are in the engine?

Richard

 

[Punch]

I'm wondering if I will have the same issues with the 800 to 1100evo. My 800 SS is a 07
Lenard

Do you have the bin file for your 800? If so, as per my previous post, attach it with a pdf extension instead of bin.

Through helping a mate I have the XDF and a few bin files for a HM 1100.
Don't know if it will work, but worth a look.
Also, you will need to check if the 800 and 1100 injectors are the same.

 

[FrozenInCND]

No haven't go into the electronics of it yet. Still tearing down the 1100, I want to clean it up and make sure it's good to go before I put it in the bike.

 

[Punch]

No haven't go into the electronics of it yet. Still tearing down the 1100, I want to clean it up and make sure it's good to go before I put it in the bike.

Do a visual check of the 800 ECU to see if it is 5AM on the sticker.

If so, then order the Lonelec cables so you have them for when you get to the ECU side of things.

That way things can be done in parallel, although I expect as you are in Canada and your forum name, you have plenty of time.

 

[duc900]

Thanks Punch. To be honest it is a slightly awkward starter when hot or cold so not sure whether me getting the temp sensors the wrong way round would impact when hot, based on what you say?

I can't tell you what mods were made to the timing gear I am afraid. I outsourced the engine work and the remapping. Afraid I also do not know what differences there are between 800 and 900 or 02 and 07. I suspect nothing ecu-wise, wiring and getting the chain lined up properly.

There is quite a long write up on another Monster site about 1100evo engines being hard to start. Most reported that there valves were badly out of adjustment long before a scheduled service, as well was some having found worn valve guides. Also excessively tight cam belts.

 

[duc900]

No haven't go into the electronics of it yet. Still tearing down the 1100, I want to clean it up and make sure it's good to go before I put it in the bike.

I would check the valves and guides, before installing that engine. If your openers are extremely tight, check the valve guides and do a compression test.

 

[FrozenInCND]

Thanks Duc900. I am doing a complete rebuild, the motor only had 10000km on it, but I want to do some internal weight reduction work, and Thermal Dispersant Coating on the external surfaces of the engine. So it will be all new when I'm done.