Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just a word of caution to anyone driving or riding in Vermont on Route 100 near Killington. The road is a speed trap and a revenue maker for the state. My wife received a speeding ticket about 5 years ago on this road (she is a very very conservative driver) and I received one yesterday on the S4RS. I also believe that actor Matt Dillion had a speeding issue last year on this very same road.

The officer didn't require seeing my registration card or proof of insurance (it was under the seat) and explained to me that the ticket would not be reported to my home state or insurance company (no points on license or increase in insurance rates). 54 mph in a 35 mph zone, $173 fine. The road is 55 mph until you approach small towns when it abruptly changes to 35 mph where the cop waits to pull you over as you pass by.

He did tell me that this was 3 points on record with the state of Vermont where you are allowed a maximum of 10 points in the course of 2 years. I'm not sure what happens if you accumulate more than 10 points in the state. After 2 years any points recorded with their state are removed from record.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
That is a great area to ride.

Most states you lose your "right to operate" in that state. Some states then report the great news to your home state. Depending on your home state it then becomes an opportunity to suspend you license and wring some more cash out of you for being a bad boy while away from home.

Thus far it hasn't happened to me. Be careful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes, the roads in VT are great. I've been riding up there for over 10 years now. I guess I've been fairly lucky as this is my first ticket.

Thanks for the additional info on the points system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,545 Posts
I've also spent a couple decades coming up from CT to ride in VT. A few years ago I was riding 2-up with my gf on our Triumph Sprint RS in a line of traffic. A State Trooper coming the other way spun around and pulled me over. Yes, this was Rt. 100 somewhere around North Sherburne. Anyway the Trooper claimed he got me with radar while he was coming at us. How he did that with us in a line of traffic all going the same speed, I don't know. Anyway, being retired, I have time on my hands. So, I went to court in Brattleboro. He didn't show up and I walked. It was a nice ride up to VT (I took my 998) for my day in court so it ended well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,732 Posts
The road is 55 mph until you approach small towns when it abruptly changes to 35 mph where the cop waits to pull you over as you pass by.
I see, so they should let you do 55 through town.:abduct:

Newsflash: That's the way it is all over the country.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,402 Posts
I received my first speeding ticket there. That was 21 years ago- I guess that the trap still works. Bummer that you got pinched.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I see, so they should let you do 55 through town.:abduct:

Newsflash: That's the way it is all over the country.
No, they just don't give you enough time (intentionally) to make the speed adjustment.

Butch and Bruce who actually have ridden that area commented intelligently about the situation.

Hello McFly; I'm just trying to save other riders the cost of an expensive ticket. Not trying to get into a debate over what it's like all over the country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,732 Posts
No, they just don't give you enough time (intentionally) to make the speed adjustment.

Butch and Bruce who actually have ridden that area commented intelligently about the situation.
So everyone gets a speeding ticket there? Think about it instead of being smug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
So everyone gets a speeding ticket there? Think about it instead of being smug.
No one asked for your "smug" comment from 3000 miles away in Olympia, WA.
 

·
comrade moderator
Joined
·
26,852 Posts
If you'd have posted this in the Northeast section instead of General Ducati Chat, you would get comments from across the country. :)

Thread moved.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,735 Posts
Responding to ST4's comment:
No, they just don't give you enough time (intentionally) to make the speed adjustment.

Butch and Bruce who actually have ridden that area commented intelligently about the situation.

Hello McFly; I'm just trying to save other riders the cost of an expensive ticket. Not trying to get into a debate over what it's like all over the country.
There are several versions of the so-called speed trap. One was the Vascar enforcement system. That is when speed is measured between two stationery points. That was ruled unconstitutional in California and in some other jurisdictions for many reasons, most centered around human error. Another is what is being described here, also known as a revenue trap. That is when a posted speed limit suddenly changes from a higher to lower speed without consideration to a number of other factors. I think many of these scenarios were ruled unconstitutional due to the possibility and history of towns using the police as a means to generate town funds. In fact a town in Ohio was legally desolved earlier this decade because of this strategy. They had employed 14 part time cops for a population of 60. There primary function was enforcing a 45 to 35mph speed limit within the township's limits. This ploy has not been ruled universally unconstitutional, there have been laws passed making it illegal to enforce for 500' from the higher speed limit sign, other than that it is a case by case basis.

Its pretty obvious a speed trap is in place when a town encourages their police force to sit on a lower incoming speed limit sign post without a stretch of road to allow motorists to slow down, especially when the difference is 10mph and they enforce it to the letter. I call that chickenshit because the enforcement is not for the purpose of public safety.

BTW, I chuckled at your response, what do you mean by McFly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,732 Posts
No one asked for your "smug" comment from 3000 miles away in Olympia, WA.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. When you approach towns you can expect a reduction in speed. Sometimes cops are there to enforce it. If most people are not getting pulled, it isn't a speed trap. Just pay attention and learn from your mistakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,267 Posts
Maybe a simple speed zone ahead sign would work for us people who are wildly out of control.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
Maybe it's just me, but I thought that the law was to be going the speed the sign reads no later than passing the sign (when slowing down)? Some of the previous comments lead me to believe some of us think otherwise?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Responding to ST4's comment:




BTW, I chuckled at your response, what do you mean by McFly?
George McFly, Back to the Future.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Tri9 makes a valid point. Traffic laws are, generally speaking, enforced at the point of the sign; you can be sited for failure to stop at a stop sign if the point at which you stop has any part of your vehicle past the line of the sign.

Same thing with speed limits. When the sign says 35, the measurement point is when you break the plane (just like the stop sign or the end zone in US football) and that speed limit is in force until you break the plane of the next speed sign. Thus, decelerating too late or accelerating too soon puts you in violation of the law.

Rolling east on Hwy 14 from Fort Collins, CO, you ultimately end up in a 65 zone. It periodically drops at a couple of crossroads, and then as you approach Ault, it drops quite a ways out to 45 and then successively to 35 and finally 25. Most of that is for safety (no sudden slamming on of brakes to shed 40 mph), but you end up driving at slower speeds for a longer period as a result of the staging. Personally I'd rather it drop once closer to town and then to the limit, but that would be more like what you are describing in Vt. Either way, it's the rider's responsibility to control speed, no?

Officers have discretion whether to write the ticket, but in the OP's case I don't know any that would let that one go (absent amazing extenuating circumstances). From his/her perspective you didn't respect the sign at all, just rolled off the throttle. Had you slowed appreciably by the time you passed the sign, you might have just been warned or not even stopped, but 19 over is 19 over no matter where you are.

I'd agree with your intimation that it was a BS ticket if you slowed up to 39 and he cited you anyway, or if the sign was placed in a blind location so that you physically were prevented from seeing it in time to comply safely, but based on what's disclosed in the posts neither of those are in play. Overall it's a good reminder to do our best to make a conscious effort to comply with the law. Just feel lucky you don't live there and there is no reciprocity agreement, so it just cost you a few minutes and some cash.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Tri9 makes a valid point. Traffic laws are, generally speaking, enforced at the point of the sign; you can be sited for failure to stop at a stop sign if the point at which you stop has any part of your vehicle past the line of the sign.Same thing with speed limits. When the sign says 35, the measurement point is when you break the plane (just like the stop sign or the end zone in US football) and that speed limit is in force until you break the plane of the next speed sign. Thus, decelerating too late or accelerating too soon puts you in violation of the law.Rolling east on Hwy 14 from Fort Collins, CO, you ultimately end up in a 65 zone. It periodically drops at a couple of crossroads, and then as you approach Ault, it drops quite a ways out to 45 and then successively to 35 and finally 25. Most of that is for safety (no sudden slamming on of brakes to shed 40 mph), but you end up driving at slower speeds for a longer period as a result of the staging. Personally I'd rather it drop once closer to town and then to the limit, but that would be more like what you are describing in Vt. Either way, it's the rider's responsibility to control speed, no?Officers have discretion whether to write the ticket, but in the OP's case I don't know any that would let that one go (absent amazing extenuating circumstances). From his/her perspective you didn't respect the sign at all, just rolled off the throttle. Had you slowed appreciably by the time you passed the sign, you might have just been warned or not even stopped, but 19 over is 19 over no matter where you are.I'd agree with your intimation that it was a BS ticket if you slowed up to 39 and he cited you anyway, or if the sign was placed in a blind location so that you physically were prevented from seeing it in time to comply safely, but based on what's disclosed in the posts neither of those are in play. Overall it's a good reminder to do our best to make a conscious effort to comply with the law. Just feel lucky you don't live there and there is no reciprocity agreement, so it just cost you a few minutes and some cash.Take care and enjoy the ride,Greg
The issue on this road is; there's no gradual decrease in speed limits. It goes from 55 mph and then drops down to 35 mph where the patrol car waits just after the sign. Gee, that's a strange coincidence!! That being said, I'm not whining, I got caught by the rules of the traffic law and I'll pay the fine. I'm just warning other members who may ride on 100 to be aware of the speed trap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
One thing I have learned from mtn riding, be cautious on the straight roads because it's hard for them to get you in the twisties. Sometimes I would call it over enforcement in and out of the little towns around said mtns. Sure had a nice time doing just that today. Dam that 848 handles compared to my cbr1000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
The issue on this road is; there's no gradual decrease in speed limits. It goes from 55 mph and then drops down to 35 mph where the patrol car waits just after the sign. Gee, that's a strange coincidence!! That being said, I'm not whining, I got caught by the rules of the traffic law and I'll pay the fine. I'm just warning other members who may ride on 100 to be aware of the speed trap.
First, sorry for the earlier "diarrhetic" post, still getting editing options on this forum dialed in to work well both with the PC and the smartphone, I went back and edited for clarity.

Second, I wasn't trying to challenge or castigate you. Buried in the middle of my post was the Colorado reference and the point was there are two ways to play it. Either the jurisdiction posts all of the other signs so you are forced to slow down much sooner and ride at slower speeds for a greater distance, or they change it all at once. It's a trade-off.

Regardless whether they post an officer there to gather revenue, the underlying idea is that we need to heed the speed limit or endure the consequences -- as you note, you're not whining -- and pay the bill. (Believe me, I'm no goody-goody, and I complain when I get popped, too...but I rarely exceed posted limits in or near cities, not only to avoid the constabulary, but also for safety.)

Overall, I much prefer the Vt method: I'd rather carry speed longer, slow quickly, drift through town, and then leave, instead of slowing down in stages starting farther out, and it sounds as though you'd prefer the opposite, which is fine. Either way, we still have to respect the guys with guns. ;)

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top