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Discussion Starter #1
Toady I rode my new 2014 Pikes Peak over a 300 k ride through the Victorian high country. A 21 degree day with blue sky. The world was choice!

From early morning through to the end of the ride mid afternoon, I noticed the bike would backfire under deceleration on occasions. Not just the small pop from unburnt fuel, it was a real backfire that sounded like it was starving.

My Pikes Peak has a full Termi system with the upmap installed. It has the baffle still inserted into the can at the tip. Could this be the issue?

I noticed a cable that is loose on the bike around the engine area. The Ducati dalership says it was originally associated with the standard exhaust valve however is no longer required with the full system. Could this be part of my issue?

The backfire is not constant. However it is there often enough for me to post this. I also noticed the bike has a slight starve/hesitation on throttle. It is becoming less the more I ride, however it just seems to me to be related.

Any thoughts from anyone out there with much more of an idea than me?

Pictures included.

Tron. :) ImageUploadedByMO Free1449146134.044661.jpg ImageUploadedByMO Free1449146176.689065.jpg


Gavatron
 

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The cable is part of the exhaust valve that was removed when they pulled the OEM exhaust. You can go ahead and remove all that junk, I did and was honestly surprised how lightweight it was. My OCD dictated unused stuff must be removed. As for the backfiring, check all of the joints to be sure you don't have an air leak.

t_bare
 

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Hammer Down
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I know when I had my Triumph Speed Triple with SAI it induced a fair amount of decel pop. I wonder if that's the issue here as well?
 

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yes the cable is part of the exhaust valve assembly for the exhaust with the cat. ideally the cable's other end should have been disconnected and removed from the disc type at the rear of the engine, but it means loosening the seat and lifting the rear end to do it and its a bit tricky, so they left it....

your new termi-ECU programme will tell the engine not to use the valve anyway.

With regards to the banging, I was getting an increasing amount on mine and then it nuts. on very close inspection, it turned out that the downpipes had hairline cracks on the joins (at the front and in the y piece), so the termi downpipe part needed replacing. now that was around 1.5 years of termi ownership and some rain riding, I would expect your bike to be newer and not have that problem but bagging is usually unburn fuel OR additional air in the exhaust.
 

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Popping on deceleration is probably a lean condition. All engines come from the factory lean so they can meet the emission regulations. When you added the after market exhaust it just made it worse.
Not sure what options you have on your bike but on older bikes you could adjust the trim, reflash the ECU or add something like a Power Commander.
I've never been a fan of adding a module like PC, but a friend of mine bought a new MotoGuzzi and it was very lean. He added a PC-V and AutoTune and his bike runs great. The problem with reflashing the map is you are using a map that might or might not be for your exact model so dynotuning might be necessary. When you add up a few runs and the time to remap your ECU it might be cheaper and more effective in the long run to go the PC-V / AutoTune route.
 

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Our '11 has a full termi and ECU it pops alot on decell at lower revs. There is a previous thread on this I think I may have started. I could not find any gaps or cracks in the pipes, so I just live with it. It is a drag though I notice when I ride the stock '14 hard I use the engine braking most of the time to help settle the back end, with the weak rear brakes these bikes have compression braking is so important in the twisties. However, the '11 with the Termi is so much lighter and handles changes of direction and lofting of the wheel is much more easier even with what is suppose to be a less powerful motor than the stock '14.

I will look into this in the next couple of weeks, I am about to change the belts on her and I will investigate and report back. We have had a previous full Termi system on the M1100s we sold it never exhibited the backfire we are noticing on these bikes. I would think that a bike with a modest 11 degrees of overlap would have less of a tendency to pop and backfire like these do. Others on the board have the same issues I know.

Mark
 

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Popping on deceleration is probably a lean condition. All engines come from the factory lean so they can meet the emission regulations. When you added the after market exhaust it just made it worse.
The Termi system comes with an up-map so they do not run lean. Popping is from unburned fuel in the exhaust system. I have the same bike with the same exhaust system and up-map and it runs a tad rich based on the color of the exhaust end cap and the way it has turned my turn signal black. As for the popping, mine still pops a bit but it has improved as I have put more miles on the bike. At 1700 miles now, it still pops a little but is not objectionable at all (much less than a MotoGP bike!).

Personally, I think they all pop when decelerating.......you just don't hear it with a giant cat stuck in the middle of the exhaust system.
 

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I think that's there a misunderstanding as to why you get more backfires from a lean mixture. An excessively lean mixture is hard to ignite reliably so there's more combustion cycles where the mixture doesn't ignite in the combustion chamber and the air/fuel mixture is sent out the exhaust where it meets another ignition source — the hot metal piping.

However, there's also a number of reasons why the air and fuel mix doesn't ignite — so it's not just lean mixtures that end up in the exhaust piping. For example, when you quickly cut the throttle the air/fuel mixture is in transition and more unburnt fuel ends up in the exhaust. This is usually the worst situation for experiencing backfires. Another most common cause of backfiring on the overrun is an incorrect TPS setting. If the TPS setting is wrong then it will send a signal that the throttle is closed more than it really is, so you get a leaner mixture.

Any fuel that hasn't been burned will end up in the hot exhaust piping and normally pass right through. But if you add more air to the fuel from an exhaust pipe fitting or crack, you now have all the ingredients for an explosion, the hot pipe is the ignition source and you get a backfire.

Without the additional combustion air from the exhaust leak you are unlikely to get a backfire.

First, you need to inspect the piping for cracks and leaks at or near the exit from the engine — then check for leaks at junctions. Aftermarket pipes or catalytic converter eliminator piping segments are not a precision fit at junctions so you need disassemble and reassemble the joints using a high temperature silicone sealant. I recommend Permatex Ultra-Copper high temp RTV silicone gasket maker.
 

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yes they all pop ! especially when you are gunning it.

the only cause for concern is if the pops become a lot louder and like huge bangs and more frequent even not even on the throttle. If/when the exhaust cracks this is what will happen and when it happens it will get worse very quickly because of the shockwaves will make the cracks bigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Terrific feedback here everyone. Thank you for the teachings and ideas.

I will inspect the pipes today for gaps/leaks to eliminate that potential issue.

My exhaust tip is beginning to go a darker colour. My friends 14 Multi has done the same with his full Termi system. His license plate is also coloured black on the corner near the exhaust after 10,000 kilometres. His bike is the red Multi on the left in the photo included.

However my popping is particularly worse when cold. The bike even starves on take off and backing off then under first throttle such as a gear change. It hesitates. Then when the bike is up to temperature, it does not continue with the issue.

The bike is going into the dealer on December 17th for top box and DP tail tidy install. I will raise with the dealer my issue now and have it checked out. The bike still has a two year warranty.

Overall I'm loving the bike! I can't believe how great it feels to ride. Coming from a KTM 1290 Superduke I find I am riding the Multi smoother, faster and more enjoyable in comfort. Nothing against the KTM as it too was a great machine. It had a slip on and decat mid pipe and popped like crazy on the deceleration compared to the Multi. However the Multi is a different issue almost a backfire and starvation. Once sorted, I will be one very happy customer!


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Gavatron
 

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Good plan, that starving/popping is not right. Once I installed the Termi and Upmap i can ride the bike as slow as 7 mph smoothly without any bucking, surging, popping, or farting, just smooth.

t_bare
 
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The bike even starves on take off and backing off then under first throttle such as a gear change. It hesitates. Then when the bike is up to temperature, it does not continue with the issue.
Have the throttle bodies balanced (not sure of the wording) but my tech did that and man it runs so much better now. No hesitation. Good luck.
 

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My multi popped and back fired on a regular occasion, it also had a very sooty pipe, it has the term full system, i took it to a very skilled ducati mechanic, he tuned it, TPS, throttle balancing, it was a different bike after that, smooth down low, and a much nicer bike to ride. You need a highly skilled ducati mechanic.
 

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Do the mods yourself and It will be rewarding mentally and Money wise too!
While the bike is apart they should have removed the exhaust valve too! Just a half hour extra would have been all it should have taken.

They should have sealed the Joints too, a smearing of Silicone (highest heat ) not too much but just enuff!
I can still see the red silicone at the joints indicating a proper job,(in my mind)

You paid the dealer t do the job now they should be liable for doing it correctly! Have them take the joints apart and use some silicone, and clean off the excess.
If they don't then I wouldn't use them for the next upgrades.

Do Give the Dealer a Chance to make things right!

If you let them walk all over you then they will keep doing Not Perfect work.
You paid for perfection , now get it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The dealer has added the below comment in relation to their view on a possible solution...

"It may just need the Throttle position sensor reset which is all part of the exhaust setup aswell as the other settings reset."

Not sure what that all means, however I'll hope they can solve.

I'll report soon :)


Gavatron
 

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Discussion Starter #16
All sorted. Dealer reset the bike to factory then loaded upmap again. Seems to now be very well tuned.

I do get some black carbon build up from the Termi exhaust on the registration plate. Not sure if this is normal. However if it continues, it could offer another benefit of obscuring my number whereby cameras may not easily detect for their revenue raising.

Thank you for feedback


Gavatron
 

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All sorted. Dealer reset the bike to factory then loaded upmap again. Seems to now be very well tuned.

I do get some black carbon build up from the Termi exhaust on the registration plate. Not sure if this is normal. However if it continues, it could offer another benefit of obscuring my number whereby cameras may not easily detect for their revenue raising.

Thank you for feedback


Gavatron
I never wash my number plate (got pulled up by a cop once, he didn't like the triming i did on the number plate, he told me it wasn't my property to alter) so now i never wash it, after 3 years it was getting real grubby, and from more that 10 meters away you couldn't read it. i got the multis big service done (48K) and the consientious mechanic gave the plate a clean and touched up the lettering to make it look like new. Dam, Dam,Dam. Gunna take another 3 years of natural road grime, or i could turn the plate around and let the exhaust speed up the process.
 

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Maybe try a heat gun?


Gavatron
Well with so many private vehicle owners having video recording devices, its in my best interests that i have an illegible plate. I have a mate who smeared grease over his plate then sprinkled dust and grit on it, he got pulled over and got a warning for purposefuly obscuring his plate and told to clean it with his shirt (no rag) so legit grim will be better. another mate uses cutting polish on his plate, the letters are all but gone. Natural wear officer, not my fault. Ha Ha
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have also heard of a spray that can resist camera flash. Or a protective film that can be applied over the plate.

The best seen is the button on the handlebar that closes and opens a blind over the plate.

These are all of course illegal and not advised in any way. Fun discussion however...


Gavatron
 
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