Smoother low revs.
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I found that just reducing the viscosity of the fork oil from 7.5 to 5.0 made an enormous difference.
As standard, IMHO, the forks are way too harsh on these bikes...
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lol... given your name "old rider" that is/was the classic modification done with damper rod forks back in the day. It still can work just fine and if the setup works for you then there is no harm . Where it is/was an issue is changing to a lighter oil means less dampening in both directions (rebound and compression) which often are at odds with each other.
We want a more soft high speed compression so the lighter oil helps on sharp edged bumps.
But the lighter oil can allow the lowspeed compression to dive more and the rebound to pop up too fast.
If you have stock springs some added preload can help with slowing the additional dive by increasing the force needed to start the spring moving , it also will put softer coils in coil bind earlier transferring to a stiffer rate sooner.
Changing spring rate or running the spring more on the stiffer portion of the range may show a lack of rebound with the lighter oil.
running stiffer rate springs will allow less oil/air spring and give you a softer ride mid stroke of the suspension, if you run the too soft oem spring you should not do this as the springs are soft enough to hard bottom.
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1,103 Posts
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/g2-throttle-tamer
G2 Throttle Tamer
G2's challenge was to improve control of over-responsive power characteristics of most fuel injected motorcycles. Their solution is the throttle tamer.
The Throttle Tamer incorporates a non-linear ratio between hand throttle rotation and carburetor or throttle body opening. The pulley, or as they call it, cam, pulls the throttle cable as the rider rotates the grip/tube. By altering the conventional, circular shaped cam, a vast improvement in control is achieved.
The Throttle Tamer has a cam with a reduced radius initially, which requires a slightly farther rotation to achieve the same carburetor or throttle body opening position as a stock throttle. This virtually eliminates the jerky throttle snatch especially evident in modern fuel injected street bikes. The radius increases or ramps up after ½ throttle to keep overall rotation required to reach full throttle at or near stock rotation.
Features:
Machined from 6061 aluminum in the USA
Self-lubricating Delrin bushings at each end of tube eliminate aluminum-to-aluminum contact and provide an ultra-smooth feel
Included cam is removable and can be replaced with alternate cams (sold separately) to fine tune control
Fits inside the stock throttle housing to stock cables
Works with all known aftermarket cruise controls
Slide your grip unto the Throttle Tamer
Installs in minutes
Made in the USA
Since this thread twists and turns,....
I have the Motion Pro fancy throttle (on FCR's) - which gives you a couple of choices on the throttle cam - I use the one with reduced initial action which keeps me from whacking it open until I really mean it. For me it is a driveability thing on the street, but also gets my wrist in a comfortable position for every motion on the track where it is WOT almost all the time. On the track it doesn't have much finesse above 6k rpms, (the rear tire slipping provides that!)... but I appreciate the exactness lower down in the revs for stop n go traffic in town.
Edit* re-read WED's comment above - and yeah, if there was one thing I would change about the fancy Motion Pro package would be to increase the "smoothness" of the action. At times even when the cables properly adjusted with tension, I would like to have smoother movement inside the grip itself, I've thought it needed a dry or wet lube in there,... is that what you mean by "slider"? I can feel the "sticky" is in the grip barrel and not the cables or the cam.
I dunno how else to describe it but its almost like the plastic tube is too big for the bar ("feels like", I don't know that it is) and so it has a rotational air gap that cannot be adjusted out. This undesirable effect comes and goes depending on how consistent forward horizontal pressure is on the bars. If I release it, (popping up for a looky-loo), the gap comes back which requires an initial increase in twist in either direction to control the gas. Constant pressure forward head down during operation of the throttle up and down won't show this effect, tight all the way.
Perhaps Thanos gloves "Infinity Gauntlets" might help?
I have the Motion Pro fancy throttle (on FCR's) - which gives you a couple of choices on the throttle cam - I use the one with reduced initial action which keeps me from whacking it open until I really mean it. For me it is a driveability thing on the street, but also gets my wrist in a comfortable position for every motion on the track where it is WOT almost all the time. On the track it doesn't have much finesse above 6k rpms, (the rear tire slipping provides that!)... but I appreciate the exactness lower down in the revs for stop n go traffic in town.
Edit* re-read WED's comment above - and yeah, if there was one thing I would change about the fancy Motion Pro package would be to increase the "smoothness" of the action. At times even when the cables properly adjusted with tension, I would like to have smoother movement inside the grip itself, I've thought it needed a dry or wet lube in there,... is that what you mean by "slider"? I can feel the "sticky" is in the grip barrel and not the cables or the cam.
I dunno how else to describe it but its almost like the plastic tube is too big for the bar ("feels like", I don't know that it is) and so it has a rotational air gap that cannot be adjusted out. This undesirable effect comes and goes depending on how consistent forward horizontal pressure is on the bars. If I release it, (popping up for a looky-loo), the gap comes back which requires an initial increase in twist in either direction to control the gas. Constant pressure forward head down during operation of the throttle up and down won't show this effect, tight all the way.
Perhaps Thanos gloves "Infinity Gauntlets" might help?
The ignitech was the best mod I did to improve low rpm rideability. Especially if you still have the stock carbs. I would recommend it as the first engine mod to do.
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234 Posts
Best mod ever <> save your moneyDucvet said:
15 posts, 15 opinions...
Anyway, the smaller front sprocket is mounted, as soon as it stops raining I'm gonna testride it...
And the Keihin/Ignitech/other mods-question, I deal with that later this year...
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234 Posts
Love it this way.
When asking about the best mod for smoother low revs I did exactly expect this twisting and turning.
One loves the Keihins, another loves the Ignitech, still another one would only change the front sprocket...
Typical biker discussion...
:wink2:
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4,827 Posts
Key part there is
There may be a great improvement but it has never been noticed or desired based on what people had the bikes in the shop for. Maybe the bike in question is abnormally rough at low rpms or maybe the rpms are abnormally low or even the owner being abnormally sensitive to a rough bike. All are somewhat subjective and hard to know from a internet post.
Maybe I am lucky that the bikes I see are all abnormally smooth due to my special tuning ability:grin2:
Low rpm smoothness is not a common complaint I hear so I do not want to mislead readers to think it can not be improved with a ignitec etc just that it has not been attempted. most ignitec's I deal with are straight to the track and are used to be a cheaper/easier alternative to kokosan boxes. maybe someday I will experiment with trying to make a bike as smooth as I can at lower rpms that I normally do.
Do they make throttle tamers for carby bikes too?
I have customers who have them and like them it is just upside down to me as we always used to want a faster throttle.
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66 Posts
Go ride a 2 stroke dirtbike for a week, it won't be an issue!
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234 Posts
I have been driving 2 stroke dirt bikes since I was 10 years old so I know what you mean.
But that's not an argument to stop me in my search for a as-smooth-as-possible-ride-with-a-2-valve-Ducati.
It's not because there are bikes that are even worse at low revs that I should be happy with the way mine is at low revs.
If there is no way to make the bike run smoother at low revs, it's not a big deal to me. I'm not gonna sell the bike in that case.
But just asking doesn't hurt anybody so...
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234 Posts
Even in that case I think it's cheaper for me buying an Ignitech instead of buying you a return-ticket to Belgium. ;-)
And just to be clear about this: the low rev smoothness is just something I'd like to improve if possible.
If it's possible; great! If not; I'll live with it.
Most Ignitech ignition curves that I've seen are rather the same as the Kokusans in the higher rpm-range. So for track bikes I think the main reason for using Ignitech is, as you said, the price and the ease of use.
Until these things were mentioned in this thread, I've never heard of throttle tamers.
So don't ask me who makes them and why and how and...
I don't think it's something I would like to use.
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66 Posts
No, I know exactly what you mean, just having some fun. This is actually my first carbed bike in quite a long time. They definitely have a character all their own. If you want the smoothest ride the ultimate answer is to go with fuel injection over carbs, that gives you a level of control and tuning that's hard to match with carbs (but can be done by a real pro).
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234 Posts
It finally stopped raining so I gave my new front sprocket (14T instead of 15T) a try yesterday.
Just what I was looking for!!
When cruising at 50, 70 or 90km/u I'm around 3000rpm and at that revs the bike runs great. With the 15T sprocket I was around 2500rpm and the old lady didn't like that. If I downshifted the problem was solved but then I was to high in revs to cruise through towns at 6a.m. (my Bos-mufflers are kinda loud soo early in the morning).
I'm just gonna see how she reacts on the highway (120-130km/u) and if that's still okay (not too high in revs to be comfortable) I'm gonna leave her like she is right now.
I'm glad I tried a €20 sprocket before spending my savings on +€1000 Keihins.
For what I use the bike, it's good enough like it is for now.
But knowing myself (always trying to enhance my rides) I think that one day in the future Keihins will be on my shopping list again. But that's okay. I rather make an improvement to the bike every year then everything all at once. That way, I can have fun for many years to come.
Anyway; thanks for the advice on this subject to anyone who made a comment in this thread!! Much appreciated!!
Just what I was looking for!!
When cruising at 50, 70 or 90km/u I'm around 3000rpm and at that revs the bike runs great. With the 15T sprocket I was around 2500rpm and the old lady didn't like that. If I downshifted the problem was solved but then I was to high in revs to cruise through towns at 6a.m. (my Bos-mufflers are kinda loud soo early in the morning).
I'm just gonna see how she reacts on the highway (120-130km/u) and if that's still okay (not too high in revs to be comfortable) I'm gonna leave her like she is right now.
I'm glad I tried a €20 sprocket before spending my savings on +€1000 Keihins.
For what I use the bike, it's good enough like it is for now.
But knowing myself (always trying to enhance my rides) I think that one day in the future Keihins will be on my shopping list again. But that's okay. I rather make an improvement to the bike every year then everything all at once. That way, I can have fun for many years to come.
Anyway; thanks for the advice on this subject to anyone who made a comment in this thread!! Much appreciated!!
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234 Posts
I did that.
I had to pull the rear wheel backwards by about 1 marking on the chain adjuster.
You misunderstood. The chain is much closer now. If you don’t keep a close watch it will chew into things that it shouldn’t chew into. Consider a larger rear sprocket and going back to the 15T in front when you need a new chain. The new chain will , of course, have to be longer to accommodate this.
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