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When I bought my first Ducati (ST4s) ~13 years ago, one of the first accessories I purchased was a shim kit. Since then, I've used it 20+ times on the eight or nine 4V bikes I've had over that period. Whenever I complete a valve job, there are always one or two empty slots that I refill at my leisure. So now I have a dozen of some sizes and only one or two of others. Every now and then I'll need two of a size that I only have one of, so I still have to order shims in the middle of a service. And as mentioned in a previous post here, the shim you order may or may not work out. Always order one larger and one smaller or you may be waiting even longer.
 

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I just did my newish to me 900ss and didn't buy into the bracketing theory on shims. Like others, this isn't the first time I've done this. I live in Michigan and do this stuff between seasons, I have months to wait before I can ride so time isn't critical. If I have to order twice and wait, no big deal.

If you have multiple locations that need a new shim, bracketing only makes sense to me if you are in a massive hurry. One shim costs more than shipping does. If you order what you think you need, then find something isn't as you expected, you can order again and get what you really need. You pay to ship it twice, but save more than that on the extra shims you never bought. If you order a bunch of shims then return some, you're still paying shipping twice. I'm not seeing how it should take more than two orders to get things right but I suppose that's a different thread. (I'd never return shims I didn't use, they just get tossed in the shim collection, but still)

For my 900 I ordered 4 openers and 2 closers from Desmotimes. Bracketing would have meant 18 vs 6. He shipped them fast so it was only a few days I had to wait to get them. The openers all matched what I was expecting within 0.01mm, and the tolerance was all positive so could be lapped off if needed. All good. I lapped one of them about .01mm because I like to fool myself that I can measure clearances that accurately to begin with. Again a different thread...

The closers were both about 0.06mm bigger than I was expecting. I think this is due to the measuring tools fitting the shims differently. It was consistent so ordering the "right" size next time shouldn't be an issue. In my case I ended up lapping them to fit so didn't have to reorder anything. Well actually I ended up only using one of them since I'm a maroon and screwed up a measurement, but a closer I already had filled in for it so whatever. And no, bracketing wouldn't have saved me there, cuz when I screw up I screw up BIG! :p I did have to lap multiple closers though since two of them that were on the bike when I got it were dragging on the cam.

If I only had to order a shim for one location I might get a couple different sizes, but order three for each location that needs something? I'm not in that much of a hurry and especially now that I know what the "offset" between our measurments is, I'll go for it the first time and reorder if needed.

I considered buying a kit but with the intervals being 0.1mm I'm afraid I'd be ordering individuals pretty often anyway. With fast shipping and winters off it just isn't worth it to me.

PS - don't talk to me about valve clearances in thousandths of an inch. Fer cripe sakes it's a freaking Ducati, the shims are sold in mm, I measure the clearances in mm... using two sets of feeler gauges in both inches and mm to get a better feel for what the clearances are... but there we are back to that other thread I keep alluding to...
 

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Come to think of it let's say if you disassembled your 2021 SFV4 all the way down needed to get the valve covers off took it to your dealer told them 'adjust the valves only' PERIOD how much would it cost for labor alone no parts?

What ever number that is......How long did it actually take? Did they honestly do it?

Reason I'm asking by the time I get to my valves (HM1100DS) just checking it & changing both opener shims takes me a good 2 hours & I have all the tools to do it plus im anal. That said I'm thinking a V4 would take 3 to 4 hours just doing valves alone & that's not tearing down the bike just getting to the valves.

At $105 an hour shop rate no wonder a Desmo service is over a grand & that's not including changing oil & filter, Dot 4 fluids, lube chain, spark plugs, air filter, tires if heeded & whatever else you broke riding it.

That also explanes why there's so many bikes for sale with 4 to 6 thousand miles on the clock it either scared them to death riding it, service is coming up, out of warrantee, knocked up the GF or whatever the reason.
This is primarily the reason I got such a good deal on my 996. It was at 11,130 miles. Owner raced R6s and R1s and didn't want to drop that much cash on a bike he rarely had time to ride. So I picked it up cheap.
 

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One of mine was purchased by...for lack of a better term....'scaring the shit outta the seller' by referring to timing belt life in miles AND age (he had no idea they even existed) His pristine 2012 HM1100SP had 2100 miles with original belts 7 years old & sitting in his garage under cover.
I told him not to attempt starting it due to possible belt failure eventually catastrophic engine failure
I'd buy it as is & take my chances hehe.
 
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BTW I used to drive myself nuts trying to get the perfect clearance on my openers till I finally decided what's it going to matter if it's a couple thou loose BFD I'd rather have them loose than right on "spec" to bairly drag a feeler gage through a tight? one especially the exhausts I can't hear it clatter 0.002 loose over a open dry clutch anyway.
Keep in mind that the clearances also affect the valve timing
 

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I've had my share of Ducati's (and yet I'm still buying them :) ) and one of the first things I do, no matter what evidence I may be shown or assurances I may get, is do a valve adjustment.

Call me a doubter but I have a strong hunch that the valves are seldom done. My 4V bikes (916, 996,999) would take me days to do a good adjustment and I really cannot envision a shop that would go through what I do to get a job like that done. My current 2V Supersport is easy compared to the 4V bikes but, even so, it takes a day to do valves and belts.

Really, who's to say if it was done or not? By the time a clearance issue shows a symptom you are usually pulling a head off.

I'm lucky I can do this kind of work and have a nice comfy shop to do it in. I have trust issues, what else can I say?
 

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Keep in mind that the clearances also affect the valve timing
Yes it does but I don't think a dyno or my ass dyno would notice squat being 0.0015" to 0.001" loose

My last race boat engine had a 572 BBC with a gigantic 0.930 lift 330 duration solid roller cam with 0.020 exaust clearance & 0.015 intake that we played with tightening & loosening up to 0.015 & it never made any difference whatsoever on a dyno what difference it did make was hammering Jesel roller tips apart when it was loose.

BTW.... T&D rockers are FAR better made than Jesel ever thought of making for 30% less cash
 

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if you have to do all the clearances, it's a 4 or so hour job to do right from covers off to covers back on ime. well, i'm getting slower as i get older, maybe 5.
Like this for sure, 4-5 hours you should be sure it's done well. The hook is though how long does it take to get the covers off?

The older 900SS is sort of easy but I still had to pull off my rear shock, and I had a seized bolt in the airbox area that took 45 min rather than 4.5 seconds. Not a quick job usually. I wouldn't want to be paying by the hour for it.
 

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Out of curiosity how long do you think it takes to run the valves (top fuel funny car slang for checking valve clearance) on a 2021/22 streetfighter V4 from the time you get it on the stand to pulling it off the stand?

I mean getting to ALL the valves..... & back together?

4 hours?......hardly........ 6 hours?....possibly.......all day?
 
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