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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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Here in Yuma there is a buggy fabricator shop that's been open since 1980 (Off Road Buggy Supply). I've known the owner "Richard Binder" since 1982. He's built countless air cooled VW and Porche engines specifically designed to have the piss beat out of them in off road races such as the Baja 1000, Mint 400, Baja 500, Parker 400 and so on. During "duning season" (all winter) his place has standing room only in the lobby of the store. People from all corners come to Yuma for duning season, especially so during holiday weekends such as Thankgiving when there is over 100k people at the nearby Buttercup Valley sand dunes. He's built and worked on more air cooled engines than anyone I've ever known of.

Point? .....

He's always used Aero Shell 15/50 in those air cooled flat 4 cyl engines.

LINK = https://www.shell.com/business-customers/aviation/aeroshell/piston-engine-oil/w15w50.html

That oil is specifically designed for air cooled engines. It may be something to consider. Maybe? I can't think of a more demanding situation than a piston engine driven aircraft. It's not like you can pull over to the side of the road if something goes amiss while you're 10,000 feet above the Earth. You go from desert heat when taking off/landing to below zero temps at altitude at a given waypoint (such as flying from Yuma to Denver) and vice verse. During climb to altitude the engine is under a continuous high load situation as well.

~Food for thought~ as they say.

:)
 

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I would never pour Aero shell 15-50, or any other ashless dispersant aviation engine oil in a motorcycle engine. Different engines need different oils.

Uli-
 

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In a nut shell, there are no additives for shear in this type of oil. Also the lack of a detergent package leaves a healthy film residue which works ok, in aircraft piston engines by limiting corrosion.

For $10 a quart, there are more suitable options.

Uli-
 

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I imagine your buggy guy has such good success with this blend is that he deals with recreational vehicles that often sit for many months without being run. The anti-corrosion properties for aluminum engines in this oil probably works out pretty well.

Still, a lot of other oils have similar means to this end and take into account that the engine is not constantly screaming at higher rpm's and uses normal gas instead of avgas. I would not use it in my bike or old VW's for the street either.
 

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Ah yes, so here we are yet again in the opinion filled world of engine oils.

One thing I really like about that is since there are so many opinions that means there are many "right" answers. Which means there is a lot of leeway when making choices. In other words, it's a safe bet that there are few dead wrong choices. This is a good thing.

Lastly, I'd bet that Richard ("the buggy guy") knows far more about keeping old VW engines alive than anyone within this membership. It's not just recreational vehicles that use aircooled VW engines in this region, it's also many many engine driven fans among citrus fields that are used to keep cold air (freezing cold) moving in citrus orchards to protect the harvest. Same with Lycoming and Teledyne Continental engines. Just mentioning that as a point of interest. Trivia.

I did not bring up Aeroshell as a suggestion, it was (as I said) something to think about. A matter of conversation. I never said or implied that I was considering it's use or wanted to use it in my 1996 Ducati 2 Valve air cooled engine powered motorcycle (before the torch and pitchfork crew shows up ... and they will show up!). Just to be perfectly crystal clear.


Soooo ..... yea. :rolleyes:

For context, regarding the "$10 cost per Qt." of AeroShell;
Mobile 1 20w/50 V-Twin "Harley" oil is $10.00 per qt., and as high as $15.00 per qt.
Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50 is around $15.00 per qt.
Shell Advance Ultra 4T 15W-50 is anywhere from $13.00 per Qt to $25.00 per qt.

Signing off, back to the Shell Advance oil topic.

~thumbs up~

:wink2:


.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@Rex Coil 7
@Uli Kunkel
@RockAZ
@Chuckracer

Dude's, All your lube stories really interesting, honest. But you're not answering my question.
Are there any difference between ?:
Shell Advance Ultra 4T 15W-50
Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50

As for the rest, it's interesting but, I don't give a rat's ass what lube our ex's are using.
 

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In brief - yes, Ducati and Shell have a marketing alliance to promote sales, so there is a difference in marketing at least. I looked long enough to realize Shell was hiding the info on both of these blends, Shell Advance Ultra 4T 15W-50 and Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50, so I am just guessing but I think there is no difference except price. Shell just has press releases. Every other oil I've searched for had standard product content data sheets easily available for comparison.

In sum, both of these oils are for fuel injected, O2 sensors, wet clutches and catalytic converters of which I have none, so I don't care. And perhaps a factory fill oil during the break-in period is only for that purpose? No marketing whiz is going to suggest to switch to a more appropriate oil after the initial break-in,...
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The Technical Data sheet for Shell Advance 4T Ultra 15W-50 is well publicized such as the following:
https://shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-CA/ddbaa96d-65f1-48d4-9100-aec9a541ba8d.pdf
The same cannot be said about Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50
However, within this above Technical Data sheet, it states that the product is endorsed by Ducati which lead me to believe both product are the same. Hard evidence to this suspicion would be welcomed.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Phosphorus and Zinc levels and that's about it.
I'm not suggesting that the Shell Tech sheet is all encompassing but the Mobil 1 is even less.
It just looks bigger because it covers all viscosity's. The Shell doc is 5W-50 specific.
Either way, they both don't tell us much.
 

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Rex,

Sorry I didn't see this earlier but I was in Oshkosh all last week. I'm sorry your feathers got ruffled about your Buggy Buddy, that was not my intention. However since not one of my Ducati motorcycles has a 4 cylinder opposed air cooled VW engine, I will use the Shell Advance 4T oil in them and not consider a specific aviation oil for motorcycle use. Thanks in advance.
Uli-
 

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In sum, both of these oils are for fuel injected, O2 sensors, wet clutches and catalytic converters of which I have none, so I don't care. And perhaps a factory fill oil during the break-in period is only for that purpose? No marketing whiz is going to suggest to switch to a more appropriate oil after the initial break-in,...
I thought we were supposed to use non-synthetic during break-in!! (since we don't argue enough about oil I figured we might as well get EVERY source of debate right out there so we can pound the horse well and truly into the ground)

My opinion (which is worth exactly as much as any other non-petroleum engineer/scientist) is that there is soo much latitude in modern motors to variation in oil compositions that oils for a specific engine/clutch (weight and additives or no) combo are nearly all statistically identical. Any durability variation due to oil is likely to be out near the end of life of the motor and statistically far below other sources of reliability variability.

Having said that... I still use good oil because it makes me feel like I'm taking care of my bike - and what the hell do I know anyway.
 
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