Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey!

one of my Bosch inducer boxes is fried; has anyone bought/installed the sachse unit that replaces the pickups and the bosch boxes? is it a good investment?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,396 Posts
No first-hand knowledge, but I've heard that the Sachse unit is a great improvement and is 21st century.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I talked to Syd Cycle in Florda and he said he's installed a number of them and he wouldnt rebuild a bevel engine without it .... sounds good enough to me!

I ordered it yesterday ... I'll do a full write up when i get it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Subscribed :rolleyes:

Look forward to reading your thoughts / review...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I have installed a Sachs E system on my Darmah, At my first attempt I thought that .002" after TDC would be OK. The bike would not go over 70 and was retarded. The setting light has to go out exactly at TDC. I used a dial test indicator and appear to have got it right on the second try. I set the curve on 2 and tried the bike out again this time maximum was 80.
I E mailed a very helpful Sachs, who advised at least curve 7 and possibly higher if that did not produce the desired result. I set it to 7, but have been unable to try it out yet. One thing to bear in mind, is that if the bike does not start, turn it off before trying again, to re-set the system The bike now idles reliably at about 1,000RPM, which it never did with the Bosch system. I'm optimistic that the system will produce the required results, when I get a chance to try it. Bruin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Its alive!!

Its all good to go now!

The provided kit is excellent ... comes with all the connectors and parts you need. buy the additional piece that seals the wires coming out of the case, it is a nicely machined piece and replaces the stupid plastic piece that you will surely break while removing from the engine. I had to switch out the rear cylinder header to one with a slightly different curve so it would be far enough away ... check this before you order.

I have rode the bike to work and back a number of times already and there is no issues what so ever ... althought it may be a placebo it seems like the bike is making A LOT more power .... maybe my bosch units were worse off than I thought.

Here’s the story. It’s a 1974 GTS with a Desmo engine/wiring harness/headlight/dash out of a later 70s 900SS.

The "victim":



My previously installed dyna coils:


Bracket previously made to hold Bosch ignition modules (it will work perfect to house the new electronic ignish):


The much required "box of random wire" that’s required while doing any electrical work on these bikes! :D (Don’t cry ... no duke harnesses were harmed during the creation of that box)



There are 2 things that you will HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO make/get before starting this project:

1. Clutch case puller

You will be pulling the left side case on and off many times.... and I'm just going to assume that no one here wants to beat the shit out of their case.

Bevel heaven sells them for $80: https://store.bevelheaven.com/engine-related/clutch-cover-extractor/

But really all you need to do is take an old case plug drill and tap the middle ... then take bolt round the end of it and you have your self a sexy case puller for much cheaper.

2. A timing tool
While doing the final adjustment it is impossible to use a dial indicator to find true TDC on the horizontal cylinder. If you read the instructions on their website you will understand what I mean (Digital Ignition ZDG3 Ducati Bevel Drive). Use the timing tool to accurately see when the "red light" turns off. I tried with a dial indicator and it’s just not possible to see where the piston crowns at the top.

Here’s bevel heaven's: https://store.bevelheaven.com/workshop-tools/ignition-timing-strobe-tool-ducati-bevel/

I have one so I didn’t consider making it .... but the horizontal piston is at TDC when the marks on the end of the crank line up with the little "tick" on the outside of the case. as seen in the picture below (the plug in the top left also needs to be removed to take the pickup plate off... do it before taking the case off the engine .... I struggled on a bench to do it and finally put the case back on the bike to crack it loose):


NEXT
Follow the instructions for installing the pickup plate and the initial set up of the new wheel.


IMPORTANT NOTE while installing the center steel piece on the crank shaft I thought the woodruf key would not fit into the slot when i measured it with a caliper ... it does, its tight (good kind) ... and the piece is still removable if need be.

Here is a picture of the initial set up:



Sure enough the red light went out about 10 degrees before TDC. Some quick math told me that I needed to rotate the wheel about 3mm counter-clockwise (3mm where the arrow tip meets the center). So off came the case ... adjusted.... back together and test again.... Continue repeating this process till you get that sneaky red light to go out at exactly TDC ... I got stupid lucky and got that thing dead on the 2nd try.

ANOTHER EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTE THAT ALMOST MADE ME HAVE TO START THE ADJUSTMENT OVER: while doing this adjustment you will have one of the 3 set screws lightly tight so you can juuuuust rotate the wheel with mild resistance. Once you have the wheel in the right place ... you have to pull the cover off again to tighten the 3 set screws with locktight .... It may seem obvious but TAKE OUT ONE OF THE OTHER SET SCREWS OUT FIRST!!!!!! if you take the one that is slightly tight out first the wheel will rotate slightly and you will need to redo the adjustment procedure.

One other thing ... the wire that comes from the pick-ups is fairly long ... and the instructions say not to cut it so I looped it towards the back of the tank, if someone else has completed this set up please let me know how to properly cut it down.

Then you are really done.



Dont Forget to bend the washer back over the nut!!!

There are a few more pictures I will post of my final wiring placement etc.

If you have any questions let me know I am more than willing to help you out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Its alive!!

Its all good to go now!

The provided kit is excellent ... comes with all the connectors and parts you need. buy the additional piece that seals the wires coming out of the case, it is a nicely machined piece and replaces the stupid plastic piece that you will surely break while removing from the engine. I had to switch out the rear cylinder header to one with a slightly different curve so it would be far enough away ... check this before you order.

I have rode the bike to work and back a number of times already and there is no issues what so ever ... althought it may be a placebo it seems like the bike is making A LOT more power .... maybe my bosch units were worse off than I thought.

Here’s the story. It’s a 1974 GTS with a Desmo engine/wiring harness/headlight/dash out of a later 70s 900SS.

The "victim":



My previously installed dyna coils:


Bracket previously made to hold Bosch ignition modules (it will work perfect to house the new electronic ignish):


The much required "box of random wire" that’s required while doing any electrical work on these bikes! :D (Don’t cry ... no duke harnesses were harmed during the creation of that box)



There are 2 things that you will HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO make/get before starting this project:

1. Clutch case puller

You will be pulling the left side case on and off many times.... and I'm just going to assume that no one here wants to beat the shit out of their case.

Bevel heaven sells them for $80: OOPS! Something went wrong here. Click the HOME button top left.

But really all you need to do is take an old case plug drill and tap the middle ... then take bolt round the end of it and you have your self a sexy case puller for much cheaper.

2. A timing tool
While doing the final adjustment it is impossible to use a dial indicator to find true TDC on the horizontal cylinder. If you read the instructions on their website you will understand what I mean (Digital Ignition ZDG3 Ducati Bevel Drive). Use the timing tool to accurately see when the "red light" turns off. I tried with a dial indicator and it’s just not possible to see where the piston crowns at the top.

Here’s bevel heaven's: OOPS! Something went wrong here. Click the HOME button top left.

I have one so I didn’t consider making it .... but the horizontal piston is at TDC when the marks on the end of the crank line up with the little "tick" on the outside of the case. as seen in the picture below (the plug in the top left also needs to be removed to take the pickup plate off... do it before taking the case off the engine .... I struggled on a bench to do it and finally put the case back on the bike to crack it loose):


NEXT
Follow the instructions for installing the pickup plate and the initial set up of the new wheel.


IMPORTANT NOTE while installing the center steel piece on the crank shaft I thought the woodruf key would not fit into the slot when i measured it with a caliper ... it does, its tight (good kind) ... and the piece is still removable if need be.

Here is a picture of the initial set up:



Sure enough the red light went out about 10 degrees before TDC. Some quick math told me that I needed to rotate the wheel about 3mm counter-clockwise (3mm where the arrow tip meets the center). So off came the case ... adjusted.... back together and test again.... Continue repeating this process till you get that sneaky red light to go out at exactly TDC ... I got stupid lucky and got that thing dead on the 2nd try.

ANOTHER EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTE THAT ALMOST MADE ME HAVE TO START THE ADJUSTMENT OVER: while doing this adjustment you will have one of the 3 set screws lightly tight so you can juuuuust rotate the wheel with mild resistance. Once you have the wheel in the right place ... you have to pull the cover off again to tighten the 3 set screws with locktight .... It may seem obvious but TAKE OUT ONE OF THE OTHER SET SCREWS OUT FIRST!!!!!! if you take the one that is slightly tight out first the wheel will rotate slightly and you will need to redo the adjustment procedure.

One other thing ... the wire that comes from the pick-ups is fairly long ... and the instructions say not to cut it so I looped it towards the back of the tank, if someone else has completed this set up please let me know how to properly cut it down.

Then you are really done.



Dont Forget to bend the washer back over the nut!!!

There are a few more pictures I will post of my final wiring placement etc.

If you have any questions let me know I am more than willing to help you out!

Hey there,

Thanks for the write up! Having never done this before, it helps to have some visual idea of what's going on. I'm I'm getting ready to purchase this system. I do have a question you might be able to help me with.

I've got a '78, kickstart-only 900GTS engine. This might be a stupid question, but I want to make sure I acquire all the tools for the job in one go so I'm not held up. According to your write up, I'll need a clutch case puller and timing tool. Reading some other articles, I'm now confused because I thought I'd need a puller to install this. The instructions from sachse show the pickup being installed almost flush with the case.

Any help folks could provide would be great.

Thanks
 

·
Bon Vivant
Joined
·
11,118 Posts
Hey there,

Thanks for the write up! Having never done this before, it helps to have some visual idea of what's going on. I'm I'm getting ready to purchase this system. I do have a question you might be able to help me with.

I've got a '78, kickstart-only 900GTS engine. This might be a stupid question, but I want to make sure I acquire all the tools for the job in one go so I'm not held up. According to your write up, I'll need a clutch case puller and timing tool. Reading some other articles, I'm now confused because I thought I'd need a puller to install this. The instructions from sachse show the pickup being installed almost flush with the case.

Any help folks could provide would be great.

Thanks
You do realize this thread is 9 years old. It's possible that guy hasnt been on the forum in years...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Bevelboy: read the instructions: https://www.elektronik-sachse.de/manuals/Z61-KS-en.pdf I am assuming your GTS has the Ducati ignition not Bosch. This means you have to pull the crankshaft primary drive gear in order to fit the ignition pick up ring and trigger wheel. I set my Sachse system up on a later Bosch motor with a chopstick not a timing wheel. Timing is built into the ignition electronics; all that is critical is accurate TDC on the horizontal cylinder. If you need any more help just ask. Here's a link showing some of my pics: New ignition system: need advice! - <-=- Club Bevel Heaven -=->
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
You do realize this thread is 9 years old.
We've all been late to the party at one time or another... I'll entertain the question.
@Bevelboy I can't speak specifically to your GTS, but I recently did the Sachse install on my '77 900SS (kick, Ducati ignition). I bought all the tools I thought I would need in advance. To my surprise, the clutch cover puller turned out to be unnecessary; after removing the clutch cover bolts, the cover came right off in my hands with almost no effort. On my bike, the flywheel/primary puller was absolutely necessary. On the other hand, the Sachse magnet wheel takes the place of the stock flywheel, bolting directly to the primary gear, which then means your expensive flywheel puller is now useless. Unless you happen to have multiple Ducati ignition bevels (with the stock ignition) in the garage, the required flywheel puller is a costly, one time use tool. I might be willing to sell or loan you mine if you need it. You'll want a good clutch holder to be able to remove the clutch and flywheel/primary nuts; the clutch nut came off with a long breaker bar, but I needed to use heat and use an impact on the primary nut (though it came off very easy that way). Finally, a dowel pin extractor tool would have come in handy to pull the pins on the primary gear that engage with the flywheel but which need to be removed to fit the Sachse magnet wheel. Not having one, I needed to get creative to pull those pins, but persistence and brute force got them out. Also, the Sachse magnet wheel did not fit completely flush against the primary gear on mine; I needed to machine a small chamfer on the edge of the center hole facing the primary gear to allow it to fully seat onto the primary gear. If needed, I can provide some photos to better explain what I'm talking about (where the interference was) and what I did to the Sachse part to make it fit right. I have a degree wheel and piston stop to find TDC, but as Rick mentions, other simpler methods work just as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,396 Posts
You definitely don't need the cover puller, the covers come off with a light tap with the plastic mallet. On the Ducati Electronnica flywheel Ducati thoughtfully provided three holes, so that you can fit a three-legged puller, or if you are lucky you may get it off by placing a short piece of aluminium rod against the outside front edge of the flywheel, opposite the keyway, and giving it a sharp whack with a hammer to spring it off (this method always works for me).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
A very long time ago, I split my old 860GT for gearbox work. I borrowed a puller for the flywheel and remember placing the motor on the floor and having to whack the end of the tightened puller very hard to get the flywheel to pop. I put a big blanket on the floor to catch the flywheel when it came loose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
We've all been late to the party at one time or another... I'll entertain the question.
@Bevelboy I can't speak specifically to your GTS, but I recently did the Sachse install on my '77 900SS (kick, Ducati ignition). I bought all the tools I thought I would need in advance. To my surprise, the clutch cover puller turned out to be unnecessary; after removing the clutch cover bolts, the cover came right off in my hands with almost no effort. On my bike, the flywheel/primary puller was absolutely necessary. On the other hand, the Sachse magnet wheel takes the place of the stock flywheel, bolting directly to the primary gear, which then means your expensive flywheel puller is now useless. Unless you happen to have multiple Ducati ignition bevels (with the stock ignition) in the garage, the required flywheel puller is a costly, one time use tool. I might be willing to sell or loan you mine if you need it. You'll want a good clutch holder to be able to remove the clutch and flywheel/primary nuts; the clutch nut came off with a long breaker bar, but I needed to use heat and use an impact on the primary nut (though it came off very easy that way). Finally, a dowel pin extractor tool would have come in handy to pull the pins on the primary gear that engage with the flywheel but which need to be removed to fit the Sachse magnet wheel. Not having one, I needed to get creative to pull those pins, but persistence and brute force got them out. Also, the Sachse magnet wheel did not fit completely flush against the primary gear on mine; I needed to machine a small chamfer on the edge of the center hole facing the primary gear to allow it to fully seat onto the primary gear. If needed, I can provide some photos to better explain what I'm talking about (where the interference was) and what I did to the Sachse part to make it fit right. I have a degree wheel and piston stop to find TDC, but as Rick mentions, other simpler methods work just as well.

Thanks for the help. I pulled off the cover to take a peak earlier. I do actually have a second, 1978 860GT with electric start, but I'm just holding on to it for parts while I do this build for now. I'll most likely part it out after I've pilfered anything I end up needing. Archilla, I'd be interested in renting the tool from you if you're serious. These damn ducati's and their "special tools". It drives the cost of every job up like 50%! But this is the last thing besides carb rebuilds before I get her on the road for a test ride. I want to do this before I wire the bike so I can arrange the box/wires/kill switch/loom all at once.

1000753
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top