Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

81 - 100 of 482 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Rossco,

What happens if you kick the bike over? Does the clutch just slip? What is happening at the clutch operating arm? Is it all floppy or is it tight against the side cover from spring pressure? I'm wondering if a, one of the pushrod pieces is missing, or perhaps the pushrods are seized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #82
Dunno...my instinctive reaction would be to tap the area with a hammer, see if it jars something back into place or releases something...but that's my default mode: try hitting it if it doesn't do what it's s'posed to lol
Hit it with a hammer?:wink2:

Yeah I used a wooden handle and tapped it. No luck.
In case you missed it yes I hit it with a hammer:grin2:

What happens if you kick the bike over?Does the clutch just slip?
Yes it does, compression is great.

What is happening at the clutch operating arm? Is it all floppy or is it tight against the side cover from spring pressure?
Yep hard up against the inner casing.

I'm wondering if a, one of the pushrod pieces is missing, or perhaps the pushrods are seized.
When I wound the adjustment screw in and it wasn't seized. I had to use a 'T' bar to loosen the nut, the basket spins. My guess is that one of the pieces is missing, but the XFile bit is that it isn't either of the last two right side pieces.

Yeah that is what I think and why I am in the process of ordering another set.
I wasn't even sure there was a clutch in there, but apparently there is.



Cheers for your thoughts lads.
Rossco
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
Rossco, there's an easy way to check if the pushrods are seized - if you screw the adjuster screw in, does it push the operating arm over?
The adjuster screws in but no movement on the operating arm. I recon if they were seized I shouldn't be able to screw it in yeah?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
I reckon that the first thing to do is to take off the right side sprocket cover and take out the adjuster from the pressure plate and push all the rods out through the right side of the bike to see if there is anything missing. Of course it's possible that someone has put the clutch plates back in wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #87 (Edited)
I reckon that the first thing to do is to take off the right side sprocket cover and take out the adjuster from the pressure plate and push all the rods out through the right side of the bike to see if there is anything missing. Of course it's possible that someone has put the clutch plates back in wrong.
Thanks mate, that is what I was thinking as well. If they put the final curved plate in the earlier it might do this? I wonder could I get the lock nut and adjuster out through the inspection cover and push the clutch rod out with the cover on. At least that would rule the clutch rod in or out as the culprit.

I was thinking if I put it in gear and the wheel locks up then it has to be the push rod, right?
I'll give that a go.

So I did that and it engages first and second gear, clutch holds enough to turn the engine over. Me thinks the push rod will need to come out, this may be possible without removing the cover.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
.... All the talk of bad handling from IF was backed up by problems in Germany apparently - the German authorities were considering banning S2s. IMHO, the steering wobble was caused by the weight distribution; my 750 Sport was exactly the same if I strapped my camping gear on the back, and I've still got vivid memories of handlebars shaking all over the place whilst crossing the Alps on it. My S2 is solid as a rock after it's diet.?
I also faced the handlebars of my brand new 82 SS shaking from one side to the other .It was brutal and rather frightening but I must admit I only got this issue with a passenger. I never had it when alone and the bike was rock steady even if pushed hard .The same occurs with my 80 SS.
Following Marc Poels (RIP) ,very nice belgium guy and well known Ducati historian who wrote several books on Ducati , the first handling degradation for the bevel twins came with the S2 ( "Histoire de Ducati" tome 2 ). It was mainly due to the weakening of the tubes behind the vertical cylinder . This was made to allow installation of the bigger 19 Ah battery necessary for the electric start ( tubes section divided by two ).So finally heavier, bigger frame and lack of rigidity. The new 1983 MHR ,third serie , used the S2 frame and was not homologated by the german Tüv.
But still a very nice bike anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #90
It was mainly due to the weakening of the tubes behind the vertical cylinder . This was made to allow installation of the bigger 19 Ah battery necessary for the electric start ( tubes section divided by two )
Check out the Darmah frame. If there is a weakness it is in the front down tubes.
That is why they are braced.
I agree with Duccout on this, I think it is more to do with weight distribution and the weight they added to the front.

Thank you for your thoughts.
Rossco
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
AND, I think it was also down to too much weight. Cook Neilsen wrote when testing the 900SS that it could not afford anothe 50 or 100 LBS if it were to work properly. The S2 used the same fork springs as the 900SS, but it weighed over 50 LBS more; all Ducati did was to fit longer spacers to the springs, when they should have fitted a heavier rate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #92
Agreed, because I am a bigger bloke, I automatically replace the springs to suit my weight, front and back. This maybe why I have never experienced the issues others write about.

It is an interesting comment that TL wrote about the rear tubes.

( tubes section divided by two )
My understanding is that the full tube is still there but it has been bent slightly and the inner section inverted or compressed toward the outer section. One mechanic I spoke to reckoned that it literally shouldn't be weaker. Maybe they just got called out on it later.

The same occurs with my 80 SS.
Will pull the clutch push rod out today and post a couple of pics. Scored a Conti style oversized clamp for the exhaust yesterday. Still need to paint a small section, file and polish the nuts. Sorry thought the pic was sharper.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #93 (Edited)
Any news?
So it all went really well. The adjustment pin was easy to get in and out, and I used a braising rod just to push out the pieces of the clutch rod. Here is the clutch cover with the inspection window removed, you can see the thread in the center where the adjustment pin screws in.



You can see the clutch rod in the order that it was removed. It was not stuck, but there are visible signs of wear, where it has been spinning in the crank case tunnel. It will be replaced as a consequence, anyone have any hints on how to lube it?





Looks like the ball bearing is missing. Couple of pics from online stores.




Rossco:grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
My first thought when looking at the first picture was: 'The ball bearing is missing.' So, looks like problem is solved. All I do for lube is smear the rods with high melting point grease,

Thar's a very unusual engine, Rossco, kickstart, square case and spin-on filter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #97
Thar's a very unusual engine, Rossco, kickstart, square case and spin-on filter.
When I checked the numbers, it checked out as one of the very last square case engines made, consistent with the frame number. The forks have Mille air caps. In some ways the engine cases are incongruous, the left case has a spin on oil filter and sight glass. On the other side there is a dipstick but the screw in filter is cast over, I think there is a sump plug in the right case. Kick start only, excellent compression.




Beautiful winter sun yesterday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
These last engines are probably the most desirable bevel engines made. The only upgrade they didn't do was change the valve angle but you get 20 years of development there for free.

I think the left side cover is one of Ian's Italspares aftermarket jobbies and I'd hazard a guess you won't see another in a hurry so don't drop it.

You just need find a real frame for it. There's a Sport one for sale currently on ebay up the Coast. Every thing will swap straight over with maybe a few new lugs welded on for the rear M/C but then you'd have the basis for a real Ducati special. Dave Kellett can do it in about 3 minutes. Imagine the bike you'd have then?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
647 Posts
Discussion Starter #99 (Edited)
You can buy new SS frames here. Probably cheaper.
Yeah I could change it in a day. Ive had my S2 stripped to motor and running gear a few times. We'll see, with the price I paid and how things are going, it is an option. Lugs wouldn't be a problem, I have a mig/tig/gas.

The clutch is in and working.
I went to the local bearing centre and picked up a ball bearing replacement. They are Norton freaks and so they just gave it to me for nicks.
I dropped the front guard to the lower mounting points. Looks much better.

Now up to jets, throttle cables and chokes.
Still not sure if I should line the tank, I know someone who did the S2 tank, it would take 3 weeks, but would be worth it. The inside is perfect.

So M35 are you going to post a pic of your Morini? Got my ass handed to me by a 500sport up Norton Summit in the Adelaide hills one day. Lovely little bike with a lunatic riding it.

British '82


Rossco:grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Hi Rossco,

did your S2 come with those composite brake discs? All the other S2s I've seen had the one piece discs. I imagine that the composite ones are a fair bit lighter.
 
81 - 100 of 482 Posts
Top