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Discussion Starter #1

Whatcha think? Is anyone on here able AND willing to buy one?

For 100K

I think its insane, and I hope I have the opportunity to SEE one in person...
 

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I am thinking about it.

Previously I said I highly doubt I would do it but then I got the email with the invitation to go to Italy and then the videos and the specs followed and now I find myself thinking about it. We will see.
 

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Are you one of the Ducatisti that got an email? I think it'd be a nice addition to your collection :p
Well, I have to think about it. I have the 1199 Superleggera and I love it but it's much less usable for me than my 996R for example. There is just so much power and it's hard to find the right places to use it, even on the track. Whereas I felt the 1299SL was kind of a contrived bike (not WSBK spec motor, etc.) compared to the 1199SL (more of an effort to build the best "R" they could build if they didn't have the price and production rules), I am starting to feel that the 1708 might be more like the 1199SL in terms of what they're going for.

As I said, we will see but I would be lying if I said I wasn't seriously thinking about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sounds like a lot to consider!

I definitely understand not being able to use all of the bike, I still have a lot to get out of my 675 LOL. No reason for me to go getting a huge bike.
 

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So this is supposedly the new V4SL. If it is, that makes the decision easy: I’m out.
 

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So this is supposedly the new V4SL. If it is, that makes the decision easy: I’m out.
My boss at BAC (MotoGP: Ducati man scoops top prize) was one of the design team heads at Ducati Corse and worked with Claudio on the original GP3 and follow on designs, including the D16RR.

Long story short, he's known Claudio for quite a few years now and while he is unsure re. the livery, according to him, the machine in that pic is the V4SL.
 

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My boss at BAC (MotoGP: Ducati man scoops top prize) was one of the design team heads at Ducati Corse and worked with Claudio on the original GP3 and follow on designs, including the D16RR.

Long story short, he's known Claudio for quite a few years now and while he is unsure re. the livery, according to him, the machine in that pic is the V4SL.
Well in the initial invitation email, he said that would be the livery (which I love) so I suspect that’s it. But all of the aero makes the bike just so ugly.

As much as $100k is a ton of dough, I figured it would be cool and I would buy it. But this is just way too much. I would probably like it a ton if it didn’t have all those wings all over.

I don’t know. I miss the old days when there were no wings. I remember being so blown away when I saw the 996R. Where’s that?
 

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Meh, doesn't really do much for me.....

These days even standard litre bikes are stupid fast and in all reality only a handful of riders can actually use what's available to them, and i get that bike companies like to flex their muscle and be bigger better faster than the next guy....

Modern technology is making it very easy for companies to push the boundaries, but really, the only guy who can afford these bikes, and i'm going out on a limb and saying all the way back to the first Superleggera are ( and i mean no disrespect to those who don't fit this stereotype) cashed up execs that want a collectible to drool over.
Sure there are some who may ride them, may even ride them quite quickly but by and large they will end up in static collections or just pottered around on, or, just as likely thrown in a ditch and an insurance claim made which we all then foot the bill for, but i digress.....

Bikes, are not like cars, a Ferrari or a Lamborghini can be driven slow to coffee shops and drooled over while a crowd gathers, Bikes not so much, the more power they make the hotter they run, especially when ridden slow in traffic, there's no AC the rider is in matching leathers and helmet, so when he stops at said coffee shop his immaculately styled hair and Ralph Lauren Polo aren't so much immaculate as rather.... sweaty

Ducati love it, they will sell every one they make for sure, but wow, it's a lot of cash for bragging rights, what else can you do with it?
 

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Modern technology is making it very easy for companies to push the boundaries, but really, the only guy who can afford these bikes, and i'm going out on a limb and saying all the way back to the first Superleggera are ( and i mean no disrespect to those who don't fit this stereotype) cashed up execs that want a collectible to drool over.
The first two owners of my SL was like that. I bought it a couple of years ago with 62 mile on it. The first one barely used it and the second prepped it to display in his house and never rode it.

Now it has close to 2k miles on it, it regularly sees the canyons and I've done a nice bit of track time on it. It's a great bike to ride but it really isn't something to go to the coffee shop with. If I don't take it for a real ride, it waits in the garage.

Something else though. Lots of people can spend $100k on a car. Everyone has a drivers license and everyone already owns a car and, maybe more importantly, everybody thinks they're a great driver. So 500 $100k sports cars will find a home. I don't know about $100k bikes like this. I think they will have a harder time selling them out. Not that they won't, just that it will be harder than suspected.

When I got the email I went down to my dealer and they gave me the purchasing paperwork stuff. It's a serious process. It's not like buying a V4R. I guess we will see.

I love the livery, but that aero is so hideous.

And by the way, the beauty of owning a rare Ducati as opposed to a Ferrari is that precisely because no one looks twice at you. 99% of the public thinks it's just another motorcycle and you're just another tool riding around and making too much noise. The attention that you get while driving a sports car is very offputting whereas with a motorbike (even a Superleggera) you can be assured that it will pretty much never draw a crowd.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So this is supposedly the new V4SL. If it is, that makes the decision easy: I’m out.
I don't blame you, I dont like it either. Aero and all.

And I think you're spot on for the "Ducati vs Ferrari" comparison.
 

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Well in the initial invitation email, he said that would be the livery (which I love) so I suspect that’s it. But all of the aero makes the bike just so ugly.

As much as $100k is a ton of dough, I figured it would be cool and I would buy it. But this is just way too much. I would probably like it a ton if it didn’t have all those wings all over.

I don’t know. I miss the old days when there were no wings. I remember being so blown away when I saw the 996R. Where’s that?
Re. the livery, I'm not a fan. The original, day glo, Superleggera scheme was just about perfect, and while I'm not sure a livery can be considered "iconic" after only a few years, for me at least, it is/was.

As far as the bodywork/aero is concerned, the V4R "package" is, at least in my humble opinion, pretty much perfect. I "get" that as the SL is going to be sold at a much higher price point than the R, that it needs to be, well, "more", but at least with regards to the wings I am in agreement. It's what constitutes "more" which I find somewhat troubling.

When we started the Mono R project we decided pretty early on that with regards to the bodywork/aero, "more" was going to be moving to graphene enhanced CFRP, which for a given layup yields significant strength to weight increases. The only problem with it is that it is not something that is visually distinctive, and to the layperson's eye, there is nothing to distinguish one from the other. And when you're dropping this kind of coin on a bike, I feel like most customers would want it to look unique.
 

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Re. the livery, I'm not a fan. The original, day glo, Superleggera scheme was just about perfect, and while I'm not sure a livery can be considered "iconic" after only a few years, for me at least, it is/was.

As far as the bodywork/aero is concerned, the V4R "package" is, at least in my humble opinion, pretty much perfect. I "get" that as the SL is going to be sold at a much higher price point than the R, that it needs to be, well, "more", but at least with regards to the wings I am in agreement. It's what constitutes "more" which I find somewhat troubling.

When we started the Mono R project we decided pretty early on that with regards to the bodywork/aero, "more" was going to be moving to graphene enhanced CFRP, which for a given layup yields significant strength to weight increases. The only problem with it is that it is not something that is visually distinctive, and to the layperson's eye, there is nothing to distinguish one from the other. And when you're dropping this kind of coin on a bike, I feel like most customers would want it to look unique.
I think it's okay to not like the livery. That stuff is hit or miss.

I do agree 100% that when you're getting a "halo" type bike, you want it to be distinctive. However, doing it with aero is the wrong way to go, imo. It should have neatly integrated aero components like what you guys did with the Mono and the bike should speak loudly but subtly. How it is now is like the equivalent of driving your Ferrari to the neighborhood coffee shop while wearing a full Nomex suit and a helmet.

Im sure that if I bought one, I would do a fair amount of track days on it (I do with my other SL) but most of the riding will be canyons and mountains. All of that aero is never going to be a factor. this isn't a track only HP4. It's a street bike that you would want to take to the track. It's like they never took that into consideration.
 

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How it is now is like the equivalent of driving your Ferrari to the neighborhood coffee shop while wearing a full Nomex suit and a helmet.
Ready for Starbucks...


Im sure that if I bought one, I would do a fair amount of track days on it (I do with my other SL) but most of the riding will be canyons and mountains. All of that aero is never going to be a factor. this isn't a track only HP4. It's a street bike that you would want to take to the track. It's like they never took that into consideration.
979105
 

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for sure the aero can come off yeah? At least the wings? I feel like Ducati is spending to much time at the top end of their model range. And while nobody really gives a shit about the scrambler, I duno, as much as this is a great halo bike......I'd like a little air cooled vintage styled fully faired bike for like 14K with showas and crap.

We get it, they can make any shape in carbon fiber. :) It's incredibly cool, but yeah, I guess they just have to really push the V4 to make all the development costs worthwhile. It needs to produce a couple bikes, some marketing championships and tons of hype.
 

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Im sure that if I bought one, I would do a fair amount of track days on it (I do with my other SL) but most of the riding will be canyons and mountains. All of that aero is never going to be a factor. this isn't a track only HP4. It's a street bike that you would want to take to the track. It's like they never took that into consideration.
I reckon all they took into consideration was the opportunity to sell another limited edition bike at a huge profit to fund their race effort.....

Not that there's anything wrong with that, they're a small company taking it to the likes of Honda, anything they can do to kick the evil empires backside i'm up for.

I still think it's a waste of money, but then again, those that will buy it don't have that concern do they....

And for me, like you have said, if it's not a purpose built rarity, like a homologated bike for Superbike racing it's just a very expensive novelty collectible, because they're the real ones to have, if the bike was built with one thing in mind, to win races, it's much more purposeful, much more authentic than an expensive fashion statement.
 

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for sure the aero can come off yeah? At least the wings?

I feel like Ducati is spending to much time at the top end of their model range. And while nobody really gives a shit about the scrambler, I duno, as much as this is a great halo bike......I'd like a little air cooled vintage styled fully faired bike for like 14K with showas and crap. .
The aero can come off but it leaves holes and a recess where they should be. Not really nice looking and if you're paying this kind of money then that's a no go. A set of machined block off plates like what they make for the mirrors would go a long way and I even went as far as to design some. But that would be a potential solution to that.

To your better point: a $14k air cooled vintage styled faired bike would be a piece of cake for them to do and they could do that from the Scrambler platform and offer it as a kit. But they would probably worry about how to not make it like MH900e or Paul Smart. I am sure they will work on that between years of the top end bikes, i.e. the V4 street fighter, this bike, etc.
 

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We get it, they can make any shape in carbon fiber. :) It's incredibly cool, but yeah, I guess they just have to really push the V4 to make all the development costs worthwhile. It needs to produce a couple bikes, some marketing championships and tons of hype.
Keep in mind that especially as it relates to the homologated machines, e.g., the V4R, these bikes are the base for that years racing campaign. Those wings/winglets are not there for aesthetic purposes, and add a significant amount of downforce, proportional to the airflow over those surfaces.

I don't race, but I've seen enough videos of front end oscillations under acceleration to know that if I were in the saddle of one of these things, that is something I'd rather not experience. ;)
 

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I have to agree with prophet PVD - looks aside those wings are there for a purpose. The V4 SL is going to be an animal unlike anything before it and the wings are probably very much needed for those that can ride it the way it is designed. I certainly cant but If there's one thing that bothers me, it's sacrificing performance for someones idea of aesthetics.
 

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I have to agree with prophet PVD - looks aside those wings are there for a purpose. The V4 SL is going to be an animal unlike anything before it and the wings are probably very much needed for those that can ride it the way it is designed. I certainly cant but If there's one thing that bothers me, it's sacrificing performance for someones idea of aesthetics.
You don't think there should be a blend of the two? Why doesn't every sports car capable of over 120mph have wings and vents all over it and mega wide fenders with 275 width fronts and 335 width rears? It would certainly make a car that performs better. You feel that's sacrificing performance for the sake of aesthetics?

It's not sacrificing performance for aesthetics. It's about creating the most elegant solution for the range of uses intended.

I fail to see where performance is sacrificed if they just made block off plates like what they make for the mirrors and just included the wings in a box. If you're going to rip around COTA and need all that downforce then bolt that stuff and go for it. If you're going to ride the canyons and have to lane split to get there, use the block off plates. What's so hard about that and where is the performance sacrifice?

While the SL is not a homologation bike, per se, as it doesn't meet the pricing and production rules, Ducati does use it as they used to make the R's: to make the best bike they could make. I don't think that anyone asks them to make less. However, they are making the best street bike they can make and since that's the case, a lot more becomes a factor that simply how much down force they can make that damn thing generate at 250kph.

Furthermore, if you look at cars homologated for racing, like the old Group B rally cars, they would include the extra wing splitters and uprights in the trunk of the car and the user could decide if they want to use them or not. What's the opposition to Ducati's doing that? No one every said that a Toyota GT Four All Trac is compromised because you had to add the wing uprights.

Lastly, if performance is the one and only factor then why stop at aero? Why not make only able to run on race fuel like C12? I'm sure they could make more hp that way. There are lots of things we could go into but I think I'm making the point.
 
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