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PowerCommander on HyperMotard

12655 Views 23 Replies 14 Participants Last post by scottysspeedshop, May 21, 2009

TurboMonster

Discussion Starter · May 19, 2009

Hi,

Can anyone with real experience tell me rather or not a "PowerCommander III" will function properly on a HyperMotard with the stock ECU.

I've been given the answers by multiple people...

"Yes, it will work fine with the stock ECU."
"No, you have to have the DucatiPerformance ECU to use the PowerCommander".

Thanks!

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

heffergm

· #2 · May 19, 2009

If you want a definitive answer, call Powercommander. That said, I certainly see nothing on their site to indicate it won't work, and they even list the stock ECU as part of their delivered map settings.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/powercommander_iii_usb.aspx?mk=5&mdl=183&yr=2008

hyprduc

· #3 · May 19, 2009

PC-III will work with stock ECU

I'm running a PC-III with a stock ECU on my bike. I bought my bike used from a Parts Unlimited rep. Leo Vince installed the cat eliminator and the LV cans and the PC-III. It is MUCH stronger than my previous set up which was the LV Cat elim and cans with the DP 2-1 ECU.

If you look on Power Commander website under the downloadable maps section, you will see one for LV exhaust, open airbox, stock ECU. Pretty sure they used my bike for that map, but I should ask Manny at LV to be sure

. My Hyper hangs with all other Hypers except Alex's big bore beast. But I'm hoping that the lightened flywheel and cams will be the great equalizer

PC map titled " M732-003 LeoVince slip-on exhaust (sound inserts removed), LeoVince catalytic converter elimination pipe, Stock air filter , DP airbox lid, Table 1 is front cylinder" runs about the same with inserts in, just depends on how much you like your neighbors!!

So yes, a PC-III will work with a stock ECU!

Cheers

:abduct:

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MarksFriggin

· #4 · May 19, 2009

I was told by the people at Dynojet/Power Commander that the PCIII does not, and can not, change settings below 20% throttle openings.

08hyper

· #5 · May 20, 2009

MarksFriggin said:
I was told by the people at Dynojet/Power Commander that the PCIII does not, and can not, change settings below 20% throttle openings.

That's right, I heard the same thing, because of the stock ECU being closed loop, only with the open loop DP ECU can the PCIII map the entire RPM range. Aloha Alex

dave2riff

· #6 · May 20, 2009 (Edited)

MarksFriggin said:
I was told by the people at Dynojet/Power Commander that the PCIII does not, and can not, change settings below 20% throttle openings.

Which is why the PC III fuel maps for the stock ECU all have zeroes in them
for below 20% throttle (the "closed-loop" mode region). In the closed-loop
region, air:fuel mixture is monitored by the O2 sensor in the exhaust, which
feeds back a signal to the ECU to allow for continuous adjustment to some
target AFR (typically 14.7:1 for narrow-band O2 sensor equipped fuel injection).

This can be altered somewhat by an O2 manipulator. The transition to open-
loop mode is totally seamless and you will not feel anything happening on the
bike. Having a customizable fuel map via the PC III for the open-loop mode
allows you to optimize fueling (and therefore performance) with any mods you
add to the bike, and therefore maximize HP gains where you need it-- half- to
full-throttle. Meanwhile, the ECU self-adjusts to a fuel-efficient target AFR
for part throttle and low RPM operation. This set-up has worked flawlessly
for me, but there are a number of guys who swear by their DP ECU's; their
only drawback seems to be poor fuel mileage.

I've used Hyprduc's M732-003 map on my Hyper w/stock ECU/Zard exhaust/
DP airbox lid and it worked great. This map is one of four HM maps available for
down-load from Power Commander. Some vendors, like More Power Racing online,
will pre-load your PC III with a requested map before they ship it to you if
you desire it. You can download new maps anytime via the USB port on a
computer, or have custom dyno-tuning done at a shop, or modify fuel
richness on-the-fly using the three buttons on the PC III (resolution is
limited to low/med/high RPM ranges for these buttons, so they are a rather
broad-ranged modifier).

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TurboMonster

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 20, 2009

Thanks!

I did call PowerCommander and the nice young lady said I'd have to ask the motorcycles manufacture or distributor. My local dealer immediately said you I had to have the DP chip and it had to be dealership installed.

I think I'll give it a try. Thanks for the information!

bullet3z

· #8 · May 20, 2009

This was one thing that I could never understand. Why someone would pay $500 plus for the DP chip, then almost the same for a PC III just to run a pipe. Some of them even go as far as adding the Fatduc. So they have somewhere around $3,000 for a few extra HP. Now don't get me wrong, I am all about getting the most power from a motorized vehicle but this is crazy.

I think I would rather go the slip on, PC III route before throwing crazy amounts of cash at something just to kill my MPG because I am running super rich.

What is the real reason that people feel the need to run the PC III and the DP chip together? Are they getting bad info from the dealership or just the web? On just about every other bike out there all you need is a PC III a few runs on the dyno. This will get you optimum power and you are good to go. Why is it not this easy for us?

08hyper

· #9 · May 20, 2009

08hyper said:
That's right, I heard the same thing, because of the stock ECU being closed loop, only with the open loop DP ECU can the PCIII map the entire RPM range. Aloha Alex

bullet3z said:
This was one thing that I could never understand. Why someone would pay $500 plus for the DP chip, then almost the same for a PC III just to run a pipe. Some of them even go as far as adding the Fatduc. So they have somewhere around $3,000 for a few extra HP. Now don't get me wrong, I am all about getting the most power from a motorized vehicle but this is crazy.

I think I would rather go the slip on, PC III route before throwing crazy amounts of cash at something just to kill my MPG because I am running super rich.

What is the real reason that people feel the need to run the PC III and the DP chip together? Are they getting bad info from the dealership or just the web? On just about every other bike out there all you need is a PC III a few runs on the dyno. This will get you optimum power and you are good to go. Why is it not this easy for us?

What I learned from some of our Forum members is that the stock ECU starts off as a closed loop ECU and then will change into a open ECU in the higher RPM ranges, The PCIII cannot map the stock ECU when it is in the closed loop mode, but will be able to map the stock after about the 25% mark, and for most people that will be just fine. The DP ECU is a open loop ECU so the entire RPM range can be mapped. Hope this helped, Aloha Alex

dave2riff

· #10 · May 20, 2009

bullet3z said:
This was one thing that I could never understand.
What is the real reason that people feel the need to run the PC III and the DP chip together? Are they getting bad info from the dealership or just the web? On just about every other bike out there all you need is a PC III a few runs on the dyno. This will get you optimum power and you are good to go. Why is it not this easy for us?

Some guys run the PC III even with the DP ECUs because, while the DP ECU
gets rid of the flapper valve, kills closed-loop mode altogether, and comes
with the Termi pipes as a set, it is still contains just a generic mapping and may not be
all that close to optimum for a particular bike. If you look at the Dyno Jet map
for the DP Race ECU, there are some very large negative corrections in the
mapping, particularly in the under 40% throttle region where the DP ECU
was >20% too rich over a wide range of rpm's for that particular bike. (This
is the M732-002 map for the HM on the Dyno Jet website.)

1hotrod

· #11 · May 20, 2009

Wow,

That's good to know. I have a Zard top gun slipon, cat, and o2 manipulator. I was hoping to find an Ecu solution when I take off the cat, but I wasn't too sure which route to take.

When I spoke to one of the Ducati techs, I asked him which Ecu he liked to tune. He said the DP Ecu's gave him the least problems, compaired to the Rapidbike and Nemisis.

So, Dave2riff and Hyprduc what is your gas mileage now?

hyperads

· #12 · May 20, 2009

i reluctantly went for the dp manifold set for my hyper so that i didnt get a fault code when i removed the flapper motor (couldnt see the point in leaving it in) although i feel as long as you could work out the resistance value of the motor at the start of its operating range you could probly make a reistor plug up to stop that fairly cheaply (like powercommander do for harley exhaust valves). having said that im not happy with my dp ecu because i put it in myself as i live 350km from my nearest dealer and you need to get the tps reset and prefferably the ecu tuned by a dp tech. as a result my bike runs very rich and has no range (about 150-180km per tank, after spending almost twice the money i could of on a pc3 and full system) i am told however that if you have the dp ecu datatool you can adjust the maps on it quite easily. i cant see why the pc3 wouldnt work well enough for you with just a pipe mod, below 20% your really not going stupid anyway are you? and im not convinced that if you didnt change the air filter that the stock ecu wouldnt have enough adjustment in it to compensate for your pipes anyway.after all it is measuring intake volume and exhaust gas output. if i had my chance again id buy a zard full system and a nemesis. and become really good friends with someone with a dyno.
while we are on this topic has anyone had tuning done to their dp ecu? and were the results good?

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GMP

· #13 · May 20, 2009

The big selling point of the DP ECU is that it corrects fueling and allows manual trim in the region that is closed loop controlled with the stock ECU. This cannot be done with a PC3/stock ECU as has been noted, as the ECU would "trim out" any fuel addded by the PC3. This is also the region that causes the ridability issues that people tend to notice and complain about because lets face it in practical street riding you spend a lot of time there, more than WFO.

You can set up a DP ECU to run well and have good milage, I've done it. Not saying its the perfect map for all setups but its close enough for most. I think the guys with the rich issues may be running the cam ECU which is a richer map than the 2-1 ECU in some areas, and/or have the trim too rich. The manual trim on the DP ECU has the the same effect on the base map as the auto trim from the lambda sensor in the closed loop stock ECU. Its a fixed offset in injector pulse width, not a %, so it has much more effect at shorter pulse widths during low demand conditions like low speed and cruising. Thats why it can really screw your milage if set too rich. I can go 90 miles till the fuel light comes on.

I guess you have to think about what you are trying to accomplish, getting absolute max power out of the bike or just curing the lean Euro 3 setup and making it run better as it should. Since I'm not a track guy, the latter worked fine for me, and keeps things simple (no piggyback PC3 unit). The bike picked up a lot of power as well, just not likely the absolute most it could have with a custom map.

A VDST is the best $200 you can spend if your interested in this stuff, and especially if your not near a dealer.

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alrova

· #14 · May 20, 2009

so question here, i only do track days and as of now i don't see myself spending the money on a full or half system, however i can see myself buying the PCiii.
I have just the open airbox and DNA filter. Based on the comments the PCiii will be good for my setup since i only use the higher RPMs area, is that correct?

hyprduc

· #15 · May 20, 2009

Normal canyon riding and trips to work around 40 mpg. Track days I think we were 25 mpg, but the throttle is wide open A LOT of the time

:abduct:

1hotrod said:
Wow,

That's good to know. I have a Zard top gun slipon, cat, and o2 manipulator. I was hoping to find an Ecu solution when I take off the cat, but I wasn't too sure which route to take.

When I spoke to one of the Ducati techs, I asked him which Ecu he liked to tune. He said the DP Ecu's gave him the least problems, compaired to the Rapidbike and Nemisis.

So, Dave2riff and Hyprduc what is your gas mileage now?

1hotrod

· #16 · May 20, 2009

GMP,

Does the VDST standard for $200.00 work for both the DP Ecu and OEM ECU? Or can I do a TPS reset with the PCIII?

dave2riff

· #17 · May 20, 2009

1hotrod said:
GMP,

Does the VDST standard for $200.00 work for both the DP Ecu and OEM ECU? Or can I do a TPS reset with the PCIII?

Yes, the VDST standard unit from TechnoResearch will work for both ECUs.
You need it (or the expensive Duc factory tuning tool) to do a TPS reset,
with or without a Power Commander installed. You can also reset the
throttle position endpoints on the Power Commander, but they seem to
match pretty well from the factory, so most people never use that feature.
The PC III itself cannot do anything to help zero the throttle position
sensor on the Hypermotard.

With the stock Ducati ECU, an EFI tune-up could include the TPS reset,
idle air bleeds adjustment, and throttle body synchronization, but fuel trim
is ineffective since the fuel:air ratio at lower throttle setting is controlled by
the closed-loop feedback (via the O2 sensor). TPS adjustments are required
to be done after changing to a new ECU (DP or otherwise), since the setting
is actually stored in memory in the ECU module itself. Changing to a new
DP ECU means that all you have in memory are factory default settings, not
the optimal adjustment for your engine.

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TurboMonster

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 21, 2009

TechnoResearch VDST do timming?

dave2riff said:
Yes, the VDST standard unit from TechnoResearch will work for both ECUs.
You need it (or the expensive Duc factory tuning tool) to do a TPS reset,
with or without a Power Commander installed. You can also reset the
throttle position endpoints on the Power Commander, but they seem to
match pretty well from the factory, so most people never use that feature.
The PC III itself cannot do anything to help zero the throttle position
sensor on the Hypermotard.

With the stock Ducati ECU, an EFI tune-up could include the TPS reset,
idle air bleeds adjustment, and throttle body synchronization, but fuel trim
is ineffective since the fuel:air ratio at lower throttle setting is controlled by
the closed-loop feedback (via the O2 sensor). TPS adjustments are required
to be done after changing to a new ECU (DP or otherwise), since the setting
is actually stored in memory in the ECU module itself. Changing to a new
DP ECU means that all you have in memory are factory default settings, not
the optimal adjustment for your engine.

Hi,

Do you know if you can adjust the timing with the TechnoResearch VDST using the stock ECU?

[this all makes me wish for the good all days with simple Flat-CR Carburetors...]

lameshaft

· #19 · May 21, 2009

The best place for a power commander is in the garbage, not on a Ducati.

The DP ECUs were designed for the bikes and work well. More often than not people just cause themselves problems with DIY aftermarket tuning.

BTW... If you buy the hyper cams, they come with an ECU... For less than the ECU alone!

scottysspeedshop

· #20 · May 21, 2009

Only if you dont know how to use it.My bike runs 100% better with the PCIII.

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