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The “old” Ohlins electronic suspension on the ‘10-12 models was non-active & simply allowed normal adjustments electronically.

Skyhook on the 2013+ models is not the same. It is semi-active. It adjusts the suspension “on the fly” as you say.

I am not familiar with the details on the new Ohlins, but believe it is similar to Skyhook.
Ducati describes the the Skyhook as Semi-active: 4 riding modes, 4 load modes, and over 400 parameter combinations for semi-active suspension that allow you to have exactly the bike you want, whenever you want.


Conversely, Ducati describes the Öhlins Smart EC 2.0 suspension as: The V4 Pikes Peak is the first Multistrada ever to be equipped with electronic Smart EC 2.0 Öhlins suspension. It is a particularly advanced system that allows an “event based” adjustment, according to the rider’s riding style.

Here's how Öhlins describes their Continuously controlled Electronic Suspension (CES): In standard CES applications the driver can freely and at any time switch between different pre-programmed settings giving the suspension widely different characteristics, typically one comfort setting, one sport setting, and one advanced, adaptive seeting that automatically adjusts to the current driving conditions and the driver’s current driving style From these base settings the system automatically controls the damping characteristics of each of the four shock absorbers in real time, changing settings up to 400 or 500 times per second, given information about the movements of the wheels and car body and many other parameters guaranteeing optimum damping performance in all conditions – all the time!
 
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The “old” Ohlins electronic suspension on the ‘10-12 models was non-active & simply allowed normal adjustments electronically.
Skyhook on the 2013+ models is not the same. It is semi-active. It adjusts the suspension “on the fly” as you say.
I know you can add the plug and play Ohlins 35000-03 suspension control unit for about $425 to the 2010-2012 Ohlins equipped 1200S/PP to make it a semi-active set up. I wonder if it is a noticeable and worthwhile upgrade?
 

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formed my opinion of the GS after renting one for a week and putting 2500 ish" miles on it...
For many of us the 10-11-12 multi is still the best of the series - they are the sportiest and the most pure - every evolution from that point on tried to do things more practical and less sporty. I dont think I'll let go of mine even if I get a new one. And the new V4 is the furthest away from that bike the multi has ever been. I'm kinda hoping the new Pikes Peak reels it back in, at least part way. But I bought the current mts 11 years ago - is that pure-sport tourer really what I still need? Truth is, probably not - I'm just finding that hard to accept.

I can tell you this; I am not a GS guy and never will be - I find the boxer twin to be completely without excitement and the telelever front to be blindingly numb. So that bike is not an option for me. (yeah, I know a lot of people love both of those things - its just not right for me, so please don't go all crazy on my opinion 😜 )

Luckily I do have a streetfighter to scratch that hooligan itch when I get it - and tomorrow is supposed to be in the 70's here so...

this has been an amazing fall:


This shot was taken about 10 days ago at about 830AM up near Asheville NC. raining lightly, 35 degrees, and this 10 mile stretch of winding dirt road beginning to turn to mud. Even though I rarely take the mts off tarmac it feels very confident to do so.
Hey, no going crazy here, LOL. I agree with ParkCRF, golden age of motorcycles. Lot’s of good ones to choose from. I also agree about the 2010-2012 being the best MTS’s .

Interestingly, I test rode a GS before I bought my MTS. That was 11 years ago. It didnt speak to me at all then, I bought the Ducati. This time when I got the itch, I rode them both and was really torn. There were good things about both bikes. I made up my mind though that I would give heavy consideration to what my wife’s experience was like. She preferred the GSA as a passenger. I’ll also admit that I’ve really enjoyed riding the GSA so far. It’s different. There are so many reviews that go either way, it really just boils down to what you prefer and enjoy. Everyone really has to ride and review for themselves. There are many things I read from others about both bikes that after riding them I plainly disagree with. Some of it was valid for me, and some of it wasn’t. It’s all personal perspective.

I freely admit that if I hadn’t been looking for a two up touring bike, I’m nearly certain I would buy the new PP myself. I look forward to hearing the reviews from you and others who go from the 2010-2012 to the new PPV4.

Beautiful pic BTW. I love that area. Awesome riding.
 

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Bon Vivant
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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
Having owned both Multi and GS and having ridden a Multi V4, I can say in my experience that the GS steers much quicker than the V4 Multi. I'm saying that is leaning from one side to the other at speed in the corners. I have 3 friends who have sold GSs and bought the V4 that feel the same way. That doesn't mean that the GS is faster necessarily through the corners but it's much shorter wheelbase and lower center of gravity help a lot. That is only apparent in side by side or back to back comparisons.

Not that any of that has to do with road feedback.

But, let me step away from that any further b/c we don't want this to be a comparison thread to another kraut bike. 😁
Saying the GS steers quicker than the V4S is not saying a whole lot. The V4S is pretty sluggish side to side... 🥴
 

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Well….prior to my first Multi (2011 or 2012….I can’t remember which!) I owned both a GSA and a Hypermotard Evo SP. I wanted to replace them both with a single bike, and to me the Multi was the perfect solution. To be honest, I didn’t find much difference between the 2011/2012 and my 2016. But it’s never been on a track either.
 

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Saying the GS steers quicker than the V4S is not saying a whole lot. The V4S is pretty sluggish side to side... 🥴
Is it though?
My V4S turns as well as a 1260 S I rode a few weeks ago, with the added confidence from better suspension feel and throttle response / fueling.
What GS are you comparing it to? The 2017.5 I had was not very nimble but I never thrashed it anywhere near the limit because I didn't connect with the front end feel.
 

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Is it though?
My V4S turns as well as a 1260 S I rode a few weeks ago, with the added confidence from better suspension feel and throttle response / fueling.
What GS are you comparing it to? The 2017.5 I had was not very nimble but I never thrashed it anywhere near the limit because I didn't connect with the front end feel.
I compared my 1250 GS to a V4 Multi as well as my new 1260S. GS is hands down quicker when transitioning than either of the Multi's. I live in N. Ga so there's plenty of curvy roads to test that on. Over 2" shorter wheelbase on the GS. Now, the GSA doesn't handle quite as well as a GS in my experience (I've owned both). YMMV.
 

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Bon Vivant
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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
Is it though?
My V4S turns as well as a 1260 S I rode a few weeks ago, with the added confidence from better suspension feel and throttle response / fueling.
What GS are you comparing it to? The 2017.5 I had was not very nimble but I never thrashed it anywhere near the limit because I didn't connect with the front end feel.
What I'm really comparing it to is my 2011 MTS. I rode it back to back with the new V4S and the new bike honestly felt sluggish (side to side) to me.

I'm with you on everything here. But compared to the first series 1200 the bigger heavier 1260 isn't nimble either. But hey, lets try to stick with comparing like bikes; All of the multis are super nice road bikes with handling and performance on top of the segment, and I feel exactly the same way you describe about the GS that I had (for a week) a few years back.
 

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Bon Vivant
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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
I compared my 1250 GS to a V4 Multi as well as my new 1260S. GS is hands down quicker when transitioning than either of the Multi's. I live in N. Ga so there's plenty of curvy roads to test that on. Over 2" shorter wheelbase on the GS. Now, the GSA doesn't handle quite as well as a GS in my experience (I've owned both). YMMV.
I just dont feel the same way - the GS to me is BORING 😜 I but I still love you man!
 

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Ducati describes the the Skyhook as Semi-active: 4 riding modes, 4 load modes, and over 400 parameter combinations for semi-active suspension that allow you to have exactly the bike you want, whenever you want.


Conversely, Ducati describes the Öhlins Smart EC 2.0 suspension as: The V4 Pikes Peak is the first Multistrada ever to be equipped with electronic Smart EC 2.0 Öhlins suspension. It is a particularly advanced system that allows an “event based” adjustment, according to the rider’s riding style.

Here's how Öhlins describes their Continuously controlled Electronic Suspension (CES): In standard CES applications the driver can freely and at any time switch between different pre-programmed settings giving the suspension widely different characteristics, typically one comfort setting, one sport setting, and one advanced, adaptive seeting that automatically adjusts to the current driving conditions and the driver’s current driving style From these base settings the system automatically controls the damping characteristics of each of the four shock absorbers in real time, changing settings up to 400 or 500 times per second, given information about the movements of the wheels and car body and many other parameters guaranteeing optimum damping performance in all conditions – all the time!
You picked a super short description of skyhook that doesn’t tell the whole story…at all. They’re both semi-active & behave similarly. Here’s another description of skyhook

“The new suspension is motorcycling's first semi-active system, along with the BMW HP4's. It works by continuously altering the damping front and rear according to a wide range of parameters, but the most important is its response to the speed of movement of the suspension. This is measured by two sensors at each end of the bike. One is positioned on the unsprung mass so it moves up and down with the wheel. The other is above it, attached to the sprung mass - the main body of the bike. The constantly changing distance between these is integrated mathematically to determine the speed, and using this, the Skyhook ECU adjusts the damping to predetermined settings.”

Get past the marketing mumbo jumbo & these are pretty much the same thing. I’m sure the new Ohlins on the V4 is a little more advanced & uses more sensors & calculations because ECUs & IMUs have gotten better, but these are the same type of system, 8 years apart. Both of them take a user setting, combine it with real time inputs from sensors & adjust the suspension “constantly”. They do the same thing one just does it with more sensors/IMUs & a newer processor.

Source (scroll down midway)

They are fundamentally the same. The first gen electronic suspension is fundamentally not the same. It uses no sensors &!makes no real time adjustments.
 

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@potomacduc
You're making a good case here. If you're right, where's the beef in this new system?
Eight years should account for some major improvements.
 

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@potomacduc
You're making a good case here. If you're right, where's the beef in this new system?
Eight years should account for some major improvements.
As noted, the big advancements are in IMU (now 6-axis so lean angle is a parameter) & processor speed. Therefore, I am sure the newer systems are better. It’s like ABS. Early systems were crude pulsates, newer systems are smooth, have lean angle etc. Also, the Ohlins is…Ohlins! That means, at least by reputation, the underlying components (shock & forks) that all the electronics are acting on are better with the Ohlins system.
 

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This is from the OM of a Panigale V4S which sounds to be a similar setup to the PP:

Suspension Control Unit (SCU) The Panigale V4 is equipped with the Öhlins SmGr EC system applied to semi-active suspension systems and electronic steering damper (DES). This system communicates with the Bosch inVriGl slGtkrm to dynamically respond to changing road and riding conditions, thereby ensuring the best possible damping sVrkrmGncV and total control of the motorcycle. It features two operating modes: Fixed, which is not an active mode and allows the rider to set specific compression and rebound sVtings for the front and rear suspensions (as well as the steering damper preload). These sVtings are maintained steady by the system until rider changes them, as it happens on a suspension system with standard adjustment. As an alternative, system features the Event Based mode, which is semi-active and allows the rider to select suspension "behaviour" levels, from hard to skfÞ In this mode, system dynamically adjusts compression, rebound and hardness of the damper depending on riding conditions, while still keeping to the overall "behaviour" level previously selected by the rider.
 

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I know you can add the plug and play Ohlins 35000-03 suspension control unit for about $425 to the 2010-2012 Ohlins equipped 1200S/PP to make it a semi-active set up. I wonder if it is a noticeable and worthwhile upgrade?
it is absolutely a worthwhile upgrade, one of the best mods I did on my 2012.
 

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The Skyhook systems use active damping where solenoid valves adjust in real time to control wheel movement. The Ohlins system on the new PP is passive (ie same as every other Ohlins system where the damping is all-mechanical from shimmed valves reacting mechanically to hydraulic pressure) but the usual adjusters are controlled electronically from an algorithm that reads a few inputs from the ECU.

@flynbulldog if I were purchasing a V4 for 95 per cent two up use I'd want to be pretty sure the rear spring was stiff enough for two especially if you were planning luggage as well. Spring changes on the Skyhook are possible but the Ohlins system looks like a change would be easier - it appears they at least allow you to reset the spring base where the Sachs Skyhook unit does not (or so it appears: Ohlins, Pro Pilot Ohlins Suspension, Ohlins Wholesale and Retail Supplier, Service and parts, WP, MX, Gncc, Showa , KYB )

For two-up I would special order the standard V4, and upgrade the springs and dampers as required. Cruise control remains an option but not the radar version. But that's partly me being cheap - I imagine the V4 PP would make an amazing two-up sports tourer if set up right. Dream ride.
 

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The "semi-active" description both makers apply to their systems means something different in each case. Sachs (and Marzocchi) Skyhook actually has fully active damping. It's semi- active only because the springs aren't active. In this sense fully active systems are very rare. Lotus developed one I think for F1 and also built a project road car that used computer controlled hydraulic rams to raise and lower the wheels in place of springs. Yes in real time: it read the bumps and lifted the wheels out of the way.

Ohlins so-called semi-active isn't active at all, in this sense. The computer olnly controls the adjusters on a passive shock. Ohlins is extremely coy about what parameters it reads, and that's because openness would embarrass them. However, their passive systems are so good that their crude auto-adjustment apparently works very well, so they are basically saying never mind the mechanism, just feel the ride.

You could look at it another way and say that active damping isn't good because it's active - it's good only if the specific active solution outperforms a high-end passive system. At present the Sachs/Marzocchi active solution does that for some riders, and especially because it doesn't require much understanding. Reviewers did seem very impressed with the latest version. Likely it also needs less maintenance than Ohlins and costs Ducati way less.
 

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I would have nothing bad to say about the Sach's semi-active IF the shock was more easy to rebuild AND there were multiple spring options available (for what Ducati charge for the parts they should have these things). The system itself has been decent (and I regularly switch between tour and sport... and regularly adjust preload between solo and tour loadouts).
 
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