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Oil Filters

27101 Views 81 Replies 30 Participants Last post by grcmonkey, Apr 12, 2014

3B43

Discussion Starter · Aug 19, 2012

Ive been using Purlator Pure 1 filters on both my bikes. I'm picking up a MTS this next weekend and am wondering is there a Pure 1 that fits the MTS?

41 - 60 of 82 Posts

dennisnyc40

· #41 · Jan 18, 2014

Very true sghetti that is why everyone needs to do there own investigating. And then come to there own conclusion as to what they want to use on there bike. If you really want to see how crazy people get over oil & filters go check out bobistheoilguy.com fanatical is an understatement. But be prepared for a deluge of opinions if you dare ask a question. But that forum is probably one of the best sources to find anything related to oil though. Some very,very knowledgeable people there who will make you back up whatever statement you make. Just the way I like it no BS tolerated prove it or STFU.

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Dirt

· #42 · Jan 18, 2014

Spaghetti Bender said:
I am not in love w/ any oil company; but to be fair Amsoil has attempted to put facts out there like the "white papers" and such. They all stretch the truth!

I totally agree.
That's why I test and re-test/re-evaluate continually.

Lot's of UOA's later, on many and varied machines

Dirt

· #43 · Jan 18, 2014

dennisnyc40 said:
Very true sghetti that is why everyone needs to do there own investigating. And then come to there own conclusion as to what they want to use on there bike. If you really want to see how crazy people get over oil & filters go check out bobistheoilguy.com fanatical is an understatement. But be prepared for a deluge of opinions if you dare ask a question. But that forum is probably one of the best sources to find anything related to oil though. Some very,very knowledgeable people there who will make you back up whatever statement you make. Just the way I like it no BS tolerated prove it or STFU.

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Yes.
I also frequent BITOG

Dirt

· #44 · Jan 18, 2014

Bonaventure said:
It's complicated and I'll just be accused of being subjective Suffice to say I think my bike runs better with OEM. Might have to do with the K&N may not have the same pressure threshold specification for the internal bypass valve of the filter. Who knows. OE for me!

I would like to know, but cannot find out anywhere, what the pressure spec is for the bypass valve in the Ducati filter vs. what it is for the K&N and other after market brands. Bypass valve on the oil filter mount housing on the engine block of the Testastretta only controls flow to the oil cooler, the filters still have an internal bypass valve to control flow to the filter media.

To illustrate using automotive instead of motorcycle, I can offer the situation with my Subaru as an example of the wild variances in internal bypass valve opening pressure spec for OEM vs after market: The Subaru OEM filter has a 23 psi spec for the spring that operates the internal bypass valve in the filter. Most after market filters are anywhere from 8 - 14psi, but Wix finally came out with a 23psi spec filter specifically for Subaru in 2011.

Does bypass valve opening pressure matter? I don't know. Question is better put to a powertrain engineer that chose the spec as it relates to the lubrication flow needs of the particular engine design at hand, and then passed that spec on to the maker of the OEM filters.

Certainly.
If a vehicle manufacturer deems it necessary to specify a higher than normal "industry standard" bypass valve release pressure, in order to ensure correct/efficient operation of the machines' lubricating system.
Then by all means, that must become the absolute highest priority in terms of selection criteria.

I personally would like more information on all filter manufacturer's specifications in that regard.
That way we can use it as another tool to assess suitability.

Then again, maybe it's best we don't know

So we just have to rely on their recommendations

Dirt

· #45 · Jan 19, 2014 (Edited)

Spaghetti Bender said:
I was told by the person at Amsoil that this filter wasn't recommended for higher RPM as it wouldn't have adequate oil flow for proper oil pressure. If you have contradicting info please share; as one more choice is always welcome. Oddly enough no filter recommendations for the SFS on their site??

Hey SB,

Guess what?
I just went onto their website to have a look around, and started to do some cross referencing.

If you go into their recommendations for 2013 models, you will find the EaoM138 listed for all the Multi's, all the Monsters (except the Diesel????), all the 848 superbikes AND the 848 SF

Actually that's the first time they've "ever" listed the EaoM 138 oil filter on their website.
Prior to this it was an obscure oil filter buried in the backwaters of their line up.
The bulk of Ducati owners can now rejoice. The EaoM 138 officially exists

The recommendations are not backward compatible to older models?????

They have also revised their recommendation right across the board regarding Engine oil to their MCV 20w-50 grade, Which is different to a lot of their previous recommendations of the MCF 10w-40 grade.
This brings them into line with the recent DUCATI owners manuals (it's about time)

Interesting.

That's the other thing with Amsoil that really ticks me off.
They're not totally up to date with their website recommendations and there are too many inconsistencies between years.
It's a right dogs breakfast. (Actually my dog is neater and tidier and he's a thing)

It just causes too much confusion.
I believe they should concentrate less on updating the entire web site (which they do regularly).
And work more on dotting the I's and crossing their T's in their recommendations listings.
IMO.

Cheers

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Slowdive

· #46 · Jan 19, 2014

Bonaventure said:
... Suffice to say I think my bike runs better with OEM.

Do people really notice a difference how the bike runs by swapping out the oil filters?

I've only tried OEM & K&N. The only difference I notice is fresh oil reduces engine temps and general smoothness.

Thirdrail

· #47 · Jan 19, 2014

Dirt said:
Hey SB,

Guess what?
I just went onto their website to have a look around, and started to do some cross referencing.

If you go into their recommendations for 2013 models, you will find the EaoM138 listed for all the Multi's, all the Monsters (except the Diesel????), all the 848 superbikes AND the 848 SF
Actually that's the first time they've "ever" listed the EaoM 138 oil filter on their website.
Prior to this it was an obscure oil filter buried in the backwaters of their line up.
The bulk of Ducati owners can now rejoice. The EaoM 138 officially exists

The recommendations are not backward compatible to older models?????

They have also revised their recommendation right across the board regarding Engine oil to their MCV 20w-50 grade, Which is different to a lot of their previous recommendations of the MCF 10w-40 grade.
This brings them into line with the recent DUCATI owners manuals (it's about time)
Interesting.

That's the other thing with Amsoil that really ticks me off.
They're not totally up to date with their website recommendations and there are too many inconsistencies between years.
It's a right dogs breakfast. (Actually my dog is neater and tidier and he's a thing)

It just causes too much confusion.
I believe they should concentrate less on updating the entire web site (which they do regularly).
And work more on dotting the I's and crossing their T's in their recommendations listings.
IMO.

Cheers

Now if they only made a 15w50.... not the racing oil they make for cars!

Shazaam

· #48 · Jan 19, 2014

Exercise care when installing the K&N-153 filter. The nut on the filter is formed as part of the casing — hollow not solid — so if the filter is over-tightened, the nut easily deforms leaving you with filter that is smooth on the outside with nothing to grab onto (it’s a nightmare to remove.)

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Dirt

· #49 · Jan 19, 2014

Spaghetti Bender said:
Now if they only made a 15w50.... not the racing oil they make for cars!

They do make a 15w-50.
It's called MCV.

I know they call it a 20w-50

At least that's what it starts out as when you put it in.
But it thins to a 15w-50 within about 2000 kms, and stays like that until you drop it out.
It's been proven so, in a number of different bikes over many many oil changes. With UOA's to prove it.

Try some and see for yourself.
You'll like it

MTScott2

· #50 · Jan 19, 2014

Shazaam said:
Exercise care when installing the K&N-153 filter. The nut on the filter is formed as part of the casing — hollow not solid — so if the filter is over-tightened, the nut easily deforms leaving you with filter that is smooth on the outside with nothing to grab onto (it’s a nightmare to remove.)

Ok so a point blank question.
What is the LAW on tightening an oil filter, NOT the recommended torque but.
Spin it on and when the gasket makes contact with a teeny tiny bit of resistance, then turn about 3/4 of a turn? or a Full Turn?
Inquiring minds want to know!
And I will not try to sue you if it leaks or is a bugger to get off!

I don't like the K&N nut as I think it is a sloppy fit! and I am OK with Ducati recommended stock filter, ones has to (likes to) think it meets all requirements.

Yorik

· #51 · Jan 19, 2014

MTScott2 said:
Ok so a point blank question.
What is the LAW on tightening an oil filter, NOT the recommended torque but.
Spin it on and when the gasket makes contact with a teeny tiny bit of resistance, then turn about 3/4 of a turn? or a Full Turn?

I think it's simple really. You put the filter on as loosely as possible so that it doesn't leak. The directions of 3/4 to a full turn after gasket contact is usually correct. Every filter may be slightly different and that's why they state a range.

MTScott2

· #52 · Jan 19, 2014

I like the usually part!

Just SOMETIMES the filters get so hard to take off, when it is not the first filter we have put on.
The K&N gasket seemed to almost taper narrowing at the top of the gasket (opening to the top)

As with everything there will always be the not perfect one.
That some guys always seem to get stuck with!

Bonaventure

· #53 · Jan 19, 2014

I've never had a problem removing any filter using the right size metal strap style oil filter wrench. Just never use a tool to tighten them, hand only!

dennisnyc40

· #54 · Jan 19, 2014

Hi Mt well that is a question that will illicit many different answers. There is no written in stone method as everyone has there own way of tightening a filter. I can tell you that I have never put a new filter on with a wrench in 35 yrs of oil changes. Only hand tightening. And have never had one leak. The most important thing in tightening a filter is NOT to overtighten. That is the cause of most filter leaks and is very easy to do using a filter wrench a lot of people think you have to tighten till it stops. Do that and it's sure to leak. As you have just compressed the rubber gasket so much that now the base of the filter makes contact with the mounting base on engine and actually creates a gap at the rubber gasket not a good thing. What I have found is the only time you should need or use a filter wrench is the first oil filter change on a brand new engine with the factory filter. They are always very tight as they are put on dry no oil on rubber gasket. Making it very difficult to remove. Now I will tell you another thing to be aware of when changing filters always make sure the rubber gasket is in the old filter. You never want to have a double gasket situation that could lead to catastrophic results. Usually you will find that happening on the factory filter on a new engine because they are put on dry and the rubber tends to stick to engine. Have had it happen a handful of times on new vehicles. That is why you must always rub a little oil around the rubber of a new filter. It lubricates the rubber for a smooth turning installation & removal of filter. As the oil keeps it from sticking to engine. I can not give you a definitive answer on the tightening as I just go by feel usually as much as I can with one hand and then maybe another quarter turn. Remember every filter has a different thickness of gasket. Have never had a leak or a problem removing by hand on the next oil change using this method. Hope this helps.

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Dirt

· #55 · Jan 19, 2014

dennisnyc40 said:
Hi Mt well that is a question that will illicit many different answers. There is no written in stone method as everyone has there own way of tightening a filter. I can tell you that I have never put a new filter on with a wrench in 35 yrs of oil changes. Only hand tightening. And have never had one leak. The most important thing in tightening a filter is NOT to overtighten. That is the cause of most filter leaks and is very easy to do using a filter wrench a lot of people think you have to tighten till it stops. Do that and it's sure to leak. As you have just compressed the rubber gasket so much that now the base of the filter makes contact with the mounting base on engine and actually creates a gap at the rubber gasket not a good thing. What I have found is the only time you should need or use a filter wrench is the first oil filter change on a brand new engine with the factory filter. They are always very tight as they are put on dry no oil on rubber gasket. Making it very difficult to remove. Now I will tell you another thing to be aware of when changing filters always make sure the rubber gasket is in the old filter. You never want to have a double gasket situation that could lead to catastrophic results. Usually you will find that happening on the factory filter on a new engine because they are put on dry and the rubber tends to stick to engine. Have had it happen a handful of times on new vehicles. That is why you must always rub a little oil around the rubber of a new filter. It lubricates the rubber for a smooth turning installation & removal of filter. As the oil keeps it from sticking to engine. I can not give you a definitive answer on the tightening as I just go by feel usually as much as I can with one hand and then maybe another quarter turn. Remember every filter has a different thickness of gasket. Have never had a leak or a problem removing by hand on the next oil change using this method. Hope this helps.

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There are some machines that you need to use a filter wrench to install the filter, because the filter is recessed and you can't get your hand onto the body to tighten it.

I usually go between 2/3 and 7/8 of a turn, depending on how it feels.
With 3/4 of a turn being the predominate target.
Very rarely a full turn.

As it has been said, the only problems I've ever encountered are with over tightened filters and or no oil applied to the gasket.

davy.j

· #56 · Jan 20, 2014

Bonaventure said:
It's complicated and I'll just be accused of being subjective Suffice to say I think my bike runs better with OEM. Might have to do with the K&N may not have the same pressure threshold specification for the internal bypass valve of the filter. Who knows. OE for me!

Well I'm going to be completely subjective and objective.
Do you have an oil pressure gauge on your bike?
I do and always have and with either filter the engine sees full pressure hot or cold within two seconds of starting.
If your bike runs better with OEM then perhaps the by pass valve is opening earlier than the K&N?
My engine runs the same whatever filter is attached to it.

davy

davy.j

· #57 · Jan 20, 2014 (Edited)

As far as the K&N nut getting damaged that's operator error.
Use a 5/8" socket and preferably 6 point not 12 and definitely not a ring spanner.
The 5/8" 6 pointer is a nice firm tap on fit and will not slip on the nut.

The majority of removal issues stem from ham fisted operators overtightening the filter in the first place anyway.
If you care to check it out it properly what really happens is the rubber gasket get's so compressed that the steel filter base gets jammed onto the threaded steel nipple in the actual crankcase and locks up sometimes even to the extent the nipple backs out complete with the filter.
The nut just makes it easier for the unwary to overtighten the thing in the first place though.

davy

Thirdrail

· #58 · Jan 20, 2014

The K&N is a bad design; kinda like a "gimmick"; but I guess some have learned to work around it!

MTScott2

· #59 · Jan 21, 2014

I used a Brand new never been used 5/8" impact socket, applied some pressure upward and the K&N was a Bitch to get off.
K&N, I find the "Nut" to be well , it could be better, lets say.

The bike was on a lift and I started to turn the whole lift I was turning so hard. Almost bent the 3/4" drive ratchet!
I was going the right way too.
All this basic knowledge about a simple filter install and removal.
People saying decades and never having any trouble.
Well Don't JINX yourself , the next one may be the Bastard that gets stuck on you .

GregWilliams

· #60 · Feb 1, 2014

I work in a m/c shop. Our understanding is that the K&N oil filters are made by HifloFiltro. What we have been told by Hiflo is that the only difference is the nut welded on the end of the K&N. We stock oem filters but sell primarily Hiflo. I've been running Hiflo on my Ducati racebikes for about eight years with no issues.

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