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Dirt, your experience with the Amsoil MCV 20W50 has been much better than my experience with the Amsoil MCT 10W40. In my bike, the Amsoil 10W40 dropped to the middle of the 30 weight range by the end of the oil interval, which happened to be in the winter so technically even a 30 weight was still within the temp chart guidelines in the manual. There was some debate that maybe the lower viscosity was from fuel not from shear, but the lab noted TR for "trace" with regard to fuel so I have to think from that it was [gear] shear and not fuel. Also, my aluminum reading was a little high on the Amsoil 10W40, although that could be attributable to being a new engine less than a year old at the time. I do beleive Amsoil to be a very shear resistant oil, if not one of the most resistant to shear that one can find, up there with Spectro, Silkolene, and Motul. And given that the oil change was preceeded by a two hour highway ride with very limited city traffic operation right before draining, it further indicates fuel dilution would not be the likely cause of the viscosity drop that was found by the analysis.

So it is that experience with one the most shear stable oils on the market going from a 40 to a 30 that has brought me to the conclusion, along with a recommendation by the Ducati Master Technician at my dealership, to adhere to 15W50 from now on so that when not if it shears, it will still be a 40 weight (most likely) by the end of the service interval. I should note that the oil run referred to above was not the full Ducati 7500 (miles) it was about 4500.

You're certainly on top of it.

Gear boxes are tough on the oil.
So is the engine with it being an L-Twin

Regarding the fuel dilution.
I really don't understand what trace is:confused:
My lab reports the actual amount they detect.
But anything above say 2.5% may well be deemed to be too much(depending on the lab and application) they will report that it indicates a problem of some description.
Other labs will deem 3% to be a reasonable threshold.
Having said that 0.5 % extra over and above long term averages, can potentially make a world of difference in the oil's viscosity.
Sometimes the negative effects on the oil are from the aromatics in the fuel.
The solvent effects of the fuel alone can significantly attack the oil molecules and oxidise the oil leading to its demise.
Then when you take it for a long run to burn off/evaporate the fuel out of the oil, it doesn't show up as being problematic fuel dilution levels in the UOA.
But the damage has already been done long before, by the fuel that's previously loaded up in the oil thousands of miles ago.

In all honesty I'm not certain of any of the other oil brands you have mentioned there.
I revert to the Amsoil Motorcycle Oil White Paper.
Only a couple of oils rate very well overall, and there can be a disconnect between the performance of one brands 10w-40 grade and their 20w-50 grade.
That's why like yourself, I validate the oils performance with the UOA's at the time of the oil change to keep a close eye on things.
Over time, It provides a baseline for what's normal for that machine.
Then anything that's a significant spike can maybe point the way to trouble, or verify a problem you know that is current or has been rectified earlier.

With the MCV, it starts out as a 20w-50 and effectively ends up a 15w-50 in all my applications. And the wear metals are consistently low.
With loads of ZDDP left in reserve, and also TBN for laughs.
So I'm very happy with that;)
I think I'm getting good value:)

It's not that I don't look around for alternatives though.
Everything is up for constant review.
But I still keep coming back to the MCV, as it ticks all the boxes in every respect.
 

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You're certainly on top of it.

Gear boxes are tough on the oil.
So is the engine with it being an L-Twin

Regarding the fuel dilution.
I really don't understand what trace is:confused:
My lab reports the actual amount they detect.
But anything above say 2.5% may well be deemed to be too much(depending on the lab and application) they will report that it indicates a problem of some description.
Other labs will deem 3% to be a reasonable threshold.
Having said that 0.5 % extra over and above long term averages, can potentially make a world of difference in the oil's viscosity.
Sometimes the negative effects on the oil are from the aromatics in the fuel.
The solvent effects of the fuel alone can significantly attack the oil molecules and oxidise the oil leading to its demise.
Then when you take it for a long run to burn off/evaporate the fuel out of the oil, it doesn't show up as being problematic fuel dilution levels in the UOA.
But the damage has already been done long before, by the fuel that's previously loaded up in the oil thousands of miles ago.

In all honesty I'm not certain of any of the other oil brands you have mentioned there.
I revert to the Amsoil Motorcycle Oil White Paper.
Only a couple of oils rate very well overall, and there can be a disconnect between the performance of one brands 10w-40 grade and their 20w-50 grade.
That's why like yourself, I validate the oils performance with the UOA's at the time of the oil change to keep a close eye on things.
Over time, It provides a baseline for what's normal for that machine.
Then anything that's a significant spike can maybe point the way to trouble, or verify a problem you know that is current or has been rectified earlier.

With the MCV, it starts out as a 20w-50 and effectively ends up a 15w-50 in all my applications. And the wear metals are consistently low.
With loads of ZDDP left in reserve, and also TBN for laughs.
So I'm very happy with that;)
I think I'm getting good value:)

It's not that I don't look around for alternatives though.
Everything is up for constant review.
But I still keep coming back to the MCV, as it ticks all the boxes in every respect.
Sorry, but all of this reminds me of " I lie to myself to be happy"!:D
 

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As you can see, lots of opinions and data. If you are a numbers geek, go to Bob-The Oil Guy's site and have fun.

I have used lots of brands (Agip, Silkolene, Golden Sprectro, Amsoil) but have landed on Mobile 1. It performs well in tests and is highly rated. But realistically, any good moto specific oil, synthetic or otherwise, should do fine as long as it is changed regularly.

Heck, I ran Rotella synthetic diesel oil in my track bike (blasphemy, I know). It was cheap and a buddy of mine had it tested after multiple track days and its protecting quailties remained in tact after 10 track days.
 

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Use amsoil 20/50 full synthetic motorcycle oil..... Great stuff and will last well past your time limit. I used it in my race bike after an engine rebuild (proper break in) and could barely detect any visible wear over the season.
 

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As you can see, lots of opinions and data. If you are a numbers geek, go to Bob-The Oil Guy's site and have fun.

I have used lots of brands (Agip, Silkolene, Golden Sprectro, Amsoil) but have landed on Mobile 1. It performs well in tests and is highly rated. But realistically, any good moto specific oil, synthetic or otherwise, should do fine as long as it is changed regularly.

Heck, I ran Rotella synthetic diesel oil in my track bike (blasphemy, I know). It was cheap and a buddy of mine had it tested after multiple track days and its protecting quailties remained in tact after 10 track days.
Smack,
I may be the one accused of blasphemy but I am convinced that the frequency of the oil change beats out the particulars of what's used (within the parameters of what the application requires, of course).

I can add to your list of oils tried: Motul, Repsol, Honda. Like you, I've used Rotella as well. Others are free to disagree but I change my oil every 2,000 miles, including a new filter, religiously. Overkill? Maybe. But I don't give the oil a chance to break down. When I was tracking/racing my RC51, I changed the oil after every weekend event and the filter every other oil change.

IMO, frequent oil changes is still the cheapest form of insurance.
 

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I'm not necessarily convinced that frequent oil changes are actually the cheapest form of insurance.
But it certainly goes close, especially when compared to infrequent oil changes.
There's no doubt that it gives peace of mind though;)

Proper selection of grade and type of oil for the application as part of the maintenance program outweighs the high frequency oil change.

I suppose it all comes down to what one can afford.
 

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Proper selection of grade and type of oil for the application as part of the maintenance program outweighs the high frequency oil change.

I suppose it all comes down to what one can afford.
The correct oil for the specific application is a must, just like you said. Yet I still believe that frequency is crutial. I hear stories all the time of users proudly stating that they ran this or that oil for 7K, 8K, or more miles between changes. In my non-scientific mind even the "best" oil will be long past usefulness at these intervals, especially in a motorcycle.

I recall talking to other Harley owners when I rode a Lower Rider. These folks didn't bat an eye dropping $20K plus on an Harley (like most of us did on a Ducati) and then balk at using any oil that would cost more than a few dollars a quart. I felt then, as I do now, it's a classic case of "jumping over the dollar to save the penny." I told one guy it was like building a half-million dollar home and spending $500.00 on the landscaping.
 

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I posted that in response to a guy asking what the factory fill is. But that post seems to be gone.

The Shell Advance stuff is nearly impossible to get in North America and I consider other choices to be superior anyhow.
 

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I can't provide references but someone had a used oil analysis performed at the 600 mile service and the cST @ 100C value was consistent with a 40 weight.
 

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The Shell Advance stuff is nearly impossible to get in North America and I consider other choices to be superior anyhow.


It would be nice to at least have Advance as an option, like the rest of the world. Curious why it's not available here. Too close to another Shell formula already being sold in North America to make importing profitable?

Not that Adavance is better or worse than other oils, but with Shell being a major sponsor of Ducati's racing program it's only common sense that they would 'recommend' using Shell in their bikes.
 

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Odd that they would use 10w40 as factory fill; when it clearly states that 15w50 is the preferred viscosity in the owner's manual.
Not that odd really.

Consider this.
A 10w-40 grade oil as a factory fill would make total sense for a number of very sound reasons.

1. It's only meant to be in service until the first service.
On that basis it's most likely possible for the oil to only be in service for 2,000 kms(max) in an extreme case of neglect.
One should remember that under the terms of the run-in process as stated in the Owners Manual, the RPM's of the engine are supposed to be limited to 6,000 RPM for the first 1,000 Kms of the run-in period.
Theoretically, under the recommended reduced RPM condition there would be greatly reduced stress on the engine oil and for a limited time.
Then it's supposed to be changed.

2. A thinner grade of oil will assist with the run-in process.

3. As a factory fill, the 10w-40 grade would suit any machine that's potentially sold(new) and put into service any where in the world, at any time of year.
Going by the information in the Owners Manual, it could be deemed to be "the universal grade". But not necessarily the "preferred" grade.
The 10w-40 is suitable for the lowest ambient temps that one is likely to be riding in, and still adequate for the highest ambient temps.

4. During the run-in process, in one topped up with a little 15w-50 grade oil due to some oil consumption in the first 1,000 Kms + distance. it wont conceivably affect anything at all.

Don't confuse the requirements of a run-in oil, with the requirements of an oil that's intended to theoretically remain in a serviceable condition for the full duration of a 12,000 Km + service interval.
It's really a chalk and cheese comparison.

DUCATI didn't recommend the thicker grade oil until they started to push the service intervals out further to 8000 Kms back around 2005.
Since then it's been pushed out to 12,000 Kms, and now we have 15,000 Kms.
Prior to 2005 the recommendation was for a 10w-40 grade oil.
 

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It would be nice to at least have Advance as an option, like the rest of the world. Curious why it's not available here. Too close to another Shell formula already being sold in North America to make importing profitable?

Not that Adavance is better or worse than other oils, but with Shell being a major sponsor of Ducati's racing program it's only common sense that they would 'recommend' using Shell in their bikes.

This is due to commercial considerations of SOPUS (Shell Oil Products US)

The Shell Advance Ultra is available just about everywhere else in the world.
The USA is different "market" on the other side of the world as far as they are concerned.

At the end of the day, there are plenty of equivalent oils to the Shell products available to consumers.

Back in the day, DUCATI used to recommend AGIP.
DUCATI'S commercial realities have pushed them to recommend a brand that's general universally available, and that's Shell with whom they have entered into a contractual arrangement.
As opposed to AGIP, which is not as widely available anywhere outside of Europe.

It's about making it simpler and more beneficial for everybody concerned as much as possible, and utilizing a company with enough capacity to cater to the requirements, and potential demand.

At the end of the day you can take your pick out of 3 the big oil brands that are most accessible on a global basis.
They are Shell, Mobil and Castrol.
On balance I think Shell is the most vertically integrated and widely available.
They are actively involved with Ferrari as well as DUCATI in the development of fuel and Lube oils for their racing programs.
In the USA, Ferrari recommend Pennzoil engine oils which are the equivalent SOPUS offerings for service fills at the dealers.
 

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I can't provide references but someone had a used oil analysis performed at the 600 mile service and the cST @ 100C value was consistent with a 40 weight.
That may well have been me;)

You are quite correct about the Grade.

The brand and type of oil is inconclusive.
It may very well not be Shell?
And it's almost certainly not the Advance Ultra 4 oil. It's quite different in the basic components of it's formulation.

If it is actually Shell, it's possible it's one of their mineral oil formulations.
Remember the factory fill oil is only intended to be in the machine during the earliest part of the run-in process.
What ever it actually is.
As long as it's deemed to be fit for purpose, and if it's the cheapest available to them, they will almost certainly use it in order to maximise profitability.
 

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Especially since the bike is already "run in" at the factory.
Quite right.

I suppose that's why the Owners Manual tells you to have it's first service done at 1,000 Kms, and states it to be the first stage of the run-in process with a further 1,500 Kms afterward to finish off:eek:
Those people at DUCATI must know nothing:D

Used oil analysis confirms the break-in process is certainly real enough though.
Personal experience shows, some assemblies take up to 32,000 Kms to complete the break-in process.
With others reported to take up to 60,000 Kms to complete:eek:

Very interesting indeed;)
 

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i hate to think a $19k bike has cheapest break in oil to maximize profit
Why not?

Playing devils advocate here.
If you were DUCATI, would you put the most expensive oil available in the world in the bikes for the factory fill?
If so, then what exactly would you specify and why?
And just how much would be your upper limit (if any) in terms of price would you budget for?
And do you think the financial controllers at DUCATI would approve your preference for your nominated oil?
 
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