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This is probably going to get highly complicated but all I really and looking for is which is a good (not necessarily great) brand oil to use that will last for a riding season of around 5000 miles give or take. Bike is only used for street riding and going to be used for commuting to work (yay boston traffic). Currently past the break in period and basically doing the coming out of storage oil change. The only thing I run in anything I own is synthetic and that is due to seeing a quite a few sludge pans from people using non syn in a vehicle that requires syn on top of it being the incorrect grade for the vehicle, which try telling people that because they saved $20 for going someplace else they now have to have a complete rebuild or a long block at about $7600 (engine only no labor). Leaning towards mobil 1 4t, liqui moly, or elf.
 

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Spectro Platinum Ultra 4 15W50 (PAO based full synthetic)
Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (ester based full synthetic)

Both developed to last the length of the factory oil service interval on new bikes.

There are also several synthetic 20W50's which I don't mention because my personal belief is 20W is just a little too heavy on the cold side for these water cooled engines, especially if you ride through the winter.

When I use the term synthetic I am not referring to the ones that use hydroisomerized crude oil (group III) but rather, either PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) based Group IV's or ester based group V's.

This thread may get locked. We have a number of oil threads lately.
 

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Seeing as you are quite clear in your mind as to what type of basestock you would like to run.
The next challenge is to sort the wheat from the charff, and ascertain which are the genuine synthetics.
I don't think you can go too far wrong with the Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil. It has a well proven track record.
I hear the Liqui-moly is good as well.
Perhaps you could use the Liqui-moly and report back with some concrete findings on the performance. There's a general lack of solid information on that oil.
You could do a Virgin Oil Analysis, and follow up at your service intervals with some Used Oil Analysis to verify it's suitability/fitness for purpose in your application.

There are other oils, which can be more expensive with very little(if any) real world performance advantage.
With some supposedly being the very best in class with questionable real world performance. They may even have pretty colours and special scents added to the oil which is intended to put the oil in a different class from all the others.

As Bonaventure mentions there's some good 50 grade oils which are available that are at the thinner end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.
Then there are some others which are at the thicker end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.

Simply try to use the most suitable grade for your application.
So in that regard it pays to refer to your owners manual.

From personal experience, I always try to run an oil that's as thick as I can reasonably use for my climate. In this case it's a 20w-50 full synthetic. And I ride all year round.

What is your preference in terms of grade that's suitable for your climate?
 

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You might try looking at european oil specs. The rules on product description here are considerably tighter than the USA. Which means the marketing hype has to have some basis in truth. I also wonder if that's the reason Royal Purple, Redline, Spectro etc. etc. Aren't easily available here.

I like the idea of building up a series of requirements and then deciding which oil fits the profile best. I suspect that a list of the usual suspects will quickly form and then it will be down to arguing on details.
 

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You might try looking at european oil specs. The rules on product description here are considerably tighter than the USA. Which means the marketing hype has to have some basis in truth. I also wonder if that's the reason Royal Purple, Redline, Spectro etc. etc. Aren't easily available here.

I like the idea of building up a series of requirements and then deciding which oil fits the profile best. I suspect that a list of the usual suspects will quickly form and then it will be down to arguing on details.
Quite correct.

Redline is another oil that's not often mentioned.
On paper it looks absolutely fantastic. The Noack and HTHS numbers are superior by a good margin.
It's strange that they market their 50 grade oil as being a 20w-50. The reality is that it's specs show it's much the same as all of the other 15w-50 grade oils found in the Group V Ester category.
I've looked into Redline here, but it's seriously cost prohibitive for me.
I think the distributors/retailers are seriously gouging on price:(

Cost and availability are another two important detail considerations when making your choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Spectro Platinum Ultra 4 15W50 (PAO based full synthetic)
Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 (ester based full synthetic)

Both developed to last the length of the factory oil service interval on new bikes.

There are also several synthetic 20W50's which I don't mention because my personal belief is 20W is just a little too heavy on the cold side for these water cooled engines, especially if you ride through the winter.

When I use the term synthetic I am not referring to the ones that use hydroisomerized crude oil (group III) but rather, either PolyAlphaOlefin (PAO) based Group IV's or ester based group V's.

This thread may get locked. We have a number of oil threads lately.
I know when I had the 600mi service done they put 10w-40 in it my main concern is with engine heat as my commute does have some traffic involved with it on a daily basis so id rather not be stuck on something where the engine heat is going to be cranked up so to speak because the oil cant help to pull some of the heat out.

Seeing as you are quite clear in your mind as to what type of basestock you would like to run.
The next challenge is to sort the wheat from the charff, and ascertain which are the genuine synthetics.
I don't think you can go too far wrong with the Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil. It has a well proven track record.
I hear the Liqui-moly is good as well.
Perhaps you could use the Liqui-moly and report back with some concrete findings on the performance. There's a general lack of solid information on that oil.
You could do a Virgin Oil Analysis, and follow up at your service intervals with some Used Oil Analysis to verify it's suitability/fitness for purpose in your application.

There are other oils, which can be more expensive with very little(if any) real world performance advantage.
With some supposedly being the very best in class with questionable real world performance. They may even have pretty colours and special scents added to the oil which is intended to put the oil in a different class from all the others.

As Bonaventure mentions there's some good 50 grade oils which are available that are at the thinner end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.
Then there are some others which are at the thicker end of the spectrum for a 50 grade.

Simply try to use the most suitable grade for your application.
So in that regard it pays to refer to your owners manual.

From personal experience, I always try to run an oil that's as thick as I can reasonably use for my climate. In this case it's a 20w-50 full synthetic. And I ride all year round.

What is your preference in terms of grade that's suitable for your climate?
I pretty much ride is 40-100f degree weather but I also want an oil that will be able to help pull some heat out with it as stated above. I think im going to try the liqui moly as im pretty sure i can get that around here easy enough.
 

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If you run 10W40 the full service interval it may be a 10W30 towards the last 1/3 of the interval length. The specific Liqui Moly product is Liqui Moly Racing Synth 4T 10W50. It uses PAO as the base oil but they must use mineral oil for the additive carrier because the MSDS says 10 - 30% mineral oil. Most synthetics that use PAO as the base oil tend to use ester as the additive carrier, and those would be my preference. Spectro, Amsoil, Motorex, maybe Repsol if you want PAO. For ester based, Silkolene and Motul lead the way.
 

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I know when I had the 600mi service done they put 10w-40 in it my main concern is with engine heat as my commute does have some traffic involved with it on a daily basis so id rather not be stuck on something where the engine heat is going to be cranked up so to speak because the oil cant help to pull some of the heat out.



I pretty much ride is 40-100f degree weather but I also want an oil that will be able to help pull some heat out with it as stated above. I think im going to try the liqui moly as im pretty sure i can get that around here easy enough.
If that's the case, then I would run a 15w-50 grade oil in your application.
Maybe even a 10w-50 grade.
There are heaps to choose from which fit your criteria.
Refer to your owners manual regarding the appropriate grade.
I would also recommend you have a look at the Amsoil Motorcycle Oil White Paper to gain some insight into what your dealing with in regard to making an informed decision.

If your bike is liquid cooled, higher heat from slow traffic commutes shouldn't be a problem.
If your bike is air cooled then that changes the dynamic a bit.

Keep in mind that oil only gets thinner with higher heat.
And as Bonaventure says, and oil that starts out as a 40 grade may well end up a 30 grade by the time your bike is due for a scheduled oil change due to a number of legitimate reasons.
Likewise a 50 grade may end up as the equivalent of a 45 grade or even a 40 grade.
You won't know this for certain unless you do a Used Oil Analysis.

Don't get too excited about an oils capacity to physically pull some heat out unless the bike is air cooled.
A true synthetic oil will handle heat better anyway.
 

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In that case you want thinner oil as this is more effective at transmiting heat. Something with a high film strength would be a good idea.
With my limited knowledge it seems the 10w40 would run cooler at first; but inevitably the temps will rise, and the thicker oil would provide better protection.
 

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I think the 40 weight vs 50 for ability to remove heat evens out either way. While the lighter weight may transfer heat marginally better, the marginally longer dwell time in the oil cooler (and thus more transfer of heat) of the 50 may cancel out the advantage of the 40.

One thing's for certain though, oil talk is fun!
 

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With my limited knowledge it seems the 10w40 would run cooler at first; but inevitably the temps will rise, and the thicker oil would provide better protection.
Sounds fair enough to me:)

I'll take potentially more protection when hot, over maybe less cooling during a warm up phase any day.
Who knows. The thicker oil may even help speed up the warm up period, and that's got to be an advantage;)

With the true synthetics, cold cranking/pumpability is well known and proven to be superior to mineral oils or their Franken offspring anyway.

Of course there's the issue of film strength.
I'm uncertain that if you could put a dozen experts in a room to debate the matter, a conclusive outcome will emerge.
Especially seeing as once the hydrodynamic state of lubrication has been superseded and transitioned into the boundary state of lubrication, where film strength is no longer relevant. The anti wear additives literally take over anyway as a last line of defence against wear.

On my bikes, I have noted that they're not consuming much in the way of anti wear additives anyway.
So the heat and pressure that's required to activate them is not present.
To my way of thinking the oil I'm using must be doing it's job very well before things get that critical in the hydrodynamic state:)
So ultimately, there's a lot of reserve additive left in the oil which I'm currently using.
I'm probably throwing away about 85% of what I actually start out with in the fresh oil after 6,000 Kms.

All I know, is that a thicker grade of oil in a particular nominated basestock, will inevitably have more in reserve in terms of hydrodynamic protection when temps rise.
It helps when the manufacturer recommends the thicker grade of oil in the first place. Seeing as they designed the thing anyway.
And they empower me, to make my own mind up by using the table in the owners manual to verify it's suitability for my ambient temps.

The theories about a thinner grade oil in a particular basestock, being able to prevent thermal runaway better than a thicker grade of the same basestock is not conclusive. At all.
There's absolutely no proof yet as far as I know.
I will wait and see.
 

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Thicker oils sap more HP from a motor. This can be measured on a dynomometer. As with everything in life oils are a balancing act. you balance the ability of the oil to lubricate against it's energy absobtion. Personally I question the wisdom of rushing to the thickest oil available as I try not to waste horse power I've paid good money for.

Thinner oils provide better hydrodynamic lubrication, less energy loss and better heat transfer. Modern long-life oils have those qualities plus a high film strength and suffer less degradation through shearing. Unfortunately they do not have the types of addative that we are used to as these damage catalists. They do have other addatives to do the same job that do not harm catalysts. I'm trying to find out if there is any good reason NOT to use them in my 748,
 

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I come at it from another angle.

IMO, if I pay for a 50 grade I want it to remain a 50 grade for the full duration of the service interval. Engine and transmission rebuilds aren't cheap, and I don't need any more power because It's nearly impossible for me to use all the power I've got.
A thicker oil helps to keep the engine running quiet. A quiet engine is a happy engine:)
Besides it would be impossible to measure any benefit through lap times, of having 2-3 extra hp from using a thinner oil on most tracks.

Then there's the approach that Bonaventure has, which factors in some oil shearing whilst in service.
He fully accepts the possibility of starting out with a 50 grade only to have it shear down to a 40 grade at the end of the service interval.
It's sort of a bet each way.
He won't entertain the notion of having a 30 grade oil in his machine at all.
 

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AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
 

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AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
I'm hearing you:)
 

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AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
Thank you !
 

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AMSOIL oil and filters are reasonably-priced and one of the top-performing oils that I've used. After beating up the oil for a while, I have sent it out for testing and it's still performing well enough to keep on running safely and no trace metals and other things that would indicate premature engine wear.
While I use Amsoil in my Jeep; I don't use it in my SF. My tech who happens to be the oldest Ducati Master tech recommends against it. He stated that it didn't agree w/ the metallurgy. He recommends Redline and Mobil 1. I don't know specifics but if I am not wrong; boron is lower in the Amsoil. I don't know if that has anything to do w/ it or not ; but that's what I have found in my research. Please understand I am just sharing my findings; but do your due diligence and base your decision on your findings.
 

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Yes the Boron levels in the Amsoil MCV are <5 PPM.
Which makes it virtually non-existent.
I suspect that it's in minute traces in the additive pack, because I find it unlikely that they'd go to the trouble of adding so little on purpose when blending.

I don't know what's so special about DUCATI metallurgy?
Unless the critical components are made of unobtanium.

But from the low wear metal numbers I'm getting with this oil, I couldn't care less what it's got or hasn't got in it.
For all I care, they could put minute traces of Panther urine in it:eek:
The only exception, is noting how little ZDDP is being consumed so I'm actually wasting it by changing it.
More importantly, the outstanding viscosity retention for the duration of the 6,000 Km OCI is very reassuring.

As I've stated here on this forum in the past I can run this oil out to 10,000 Kms in the Harley without a worry in the world:)
Being that the DUCATI's are easier on the oil than the Harley, I would be absolutely confident in running this oil out to the full 12.000 Kms if necessary.
 

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Dirt, your experience with the Amsoil MCV 20W50 has been much better than my experience with the Amsoil MCT 10W40. In my bike, the Amsoil 10W40 dropped to the middle of the 30 weight range by the end of the oil interval, which happened to be in the winter so technically even a 30 weight was still within the temp chart guidelines in the manual. There was some debate that maybe the lower viscosity was from fuel not from shear, but the lab noted TR for "trace" with regard to fuel so I have to think from that it was [gear] shear and not fuel. Also, my aluminum reading was a little high on the Amsoil 10W40, although that could be attributable to being a new engine less than a year old at the time. I do beleive Amsoil to be a very shear resistant oil, if not one of the most resistant to shear that one can find, up there with Spectro, Silkolene, and Motul. And given that the oil change was preceeded by a two hour highway ride with very limited city traffic operation right before draining, it further indicates fuel dilution would not be the likely cause of the viscosity drop that was found by the analysis.

So it is that experience with one the most shear stable oils on the market going from a 40 to a 30 that has brought me to the conclusion, along with a recommendation by the Ducati Master Technician at my dealership, to adhere to 15W50 from now on so that when not if it shears, it will still be a 40 weight (most likely) by the end of the service interval. I should note that the oil run referred to above was not the full Ducati 7500 (miles) it was about 4500.
 
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