[mbevans]

Hello All,

On my 2006 999S I have the full Ohlins package. Well I sent away the rear and the front forks for revalving and have run 1000 miles since. Yet I have adjusted the rear spring to as soft as it will go, this thing might as well be a Harley!

I had a new spring installed on the rear for my weight and it is too bloody hard. I am wondering if the gentleman that re-did my stuff installed the incorrect spring. As I adjusted the dampening and it is not that.

What is nice is the 27mm offset tripleclamps that I installed at the same time, as this thing changes direction like a new GSXR.

Here's the Ohins spring number 010292-36/105-L076

I'm 200 lbs. and I cannot get 15mm of static sag out of this bike with me not on it, maybe 10mm max.

Thanks all in advance

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Ducshop]

The chart we made shows you should use a 01091-29/90 with about 15mm of pre-load for your weight unless you are running a 749R link. 01092 is a 10mm longer spring than a 01091.

 

[mbevans]

So this shock is setup with a longer spring that specified, and stiffer? No wonder I have no adjustment, and the ride is Harley style.....
The number you call out is stiffer than the stocker, correct?
And that P/N will work with a 200lb person for some street and track days?

All I can say to the shop that set this up, is thanks JASON for F**king me!!!

And I should have have sent them to DAN....

Thanks for the knowledge
Mark

 

[ducati2242]

The chart we made shows you should use a 01091-29/90 with about 15mm of pre-load for your weight unless you are running a 749R link. 01092 is a 10mm longer spring than a 01091.

Exactly what I got installed buy an Ohlins tech.

 

[mbevans]

OHLINS Not enough sag!!

Hello All,
I switched my rear spring on my Ohlins rear shock 999s to a Ohlins 01091-29/90 L250. Yet at 200lbs I can only get 1" of sag, according to most people I need to get a 1.50-1.75" of overall sag, right??
My adjustment coller is at the top, and no preload on the adjustable preload setting, this F'ing this is still way too stiff!!!
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks all,
Mark

 

[BrianG]

On my 2005 999S I have installed the 01091-29/90 to replace the stock 70Nm unit and I wouldn't want the bike any stiffer. I am 220 lb without gear.

I have 15/30mm unloaded/loaded (0.6/1.2 inches) sag with that spring, which was my goal for a nicely compliant suspension. I am not a fan of the firmer-is-better suspension philosophy.....

I also didn't change the valving in the shock or forks, and I find I still have sufficient adjustment on either side of the settings I like.

FYI, I planned to change from the stock .95 kg fork springs to 1.00 kg units, but discovered that I got my 15mm of unloaded/loaded sag difference with the .95kg units. This was found to be at a lower range than I wanted, even with app the pre-load dialed in, so I just had to add 30mm (3/4") to the internal spring spacer length to get to the sag shifted to the desired range of 20mm/35mm unloaded/loaded.

You now have the spring that Section 8 recommended for the 2003-2004 999, for your body weight. They suggest the 90 Nm unit I installed as being for 165-175 lbs, and that's no where near my experience with the 2005 999S. I don't know if the early rocker system provided different leverage than the later swingarm system, but it's no surprize to me that you are riding a rock, based on my experience with the later model.

 

[mbevans]

So I should have a 01091-19/90 NOT a 01091-29/90?

Dan Kyle says I should have 29/90, but the 29/90 nets me soo little sag.

So am I that far off? should my sag only be 25mm, not 45mm???

Thanks!

 

[BrianG]

It really depends on what you like for suspension feel. My philosophy is that a more compliant suspension keeps the tire in better contact with the road, but you also don't want to be riding a noodle.... So there are competing issues at play. I have discovered that some racers like a stiffer suspension because they think that they get better drive out of corners if the back end sits up more. While this might be the case, I have found that I can get the same "drive" out of a more compliant suspension by dialing in just a little more compression damping. That said, I am NOT a racer, and this setup I have is just for spirited canyon carving.

My goals for this use is 25-35% loaded sag on the front and 20-30% loaded sag on the back. The front sees about 120mm (4.75") total travel on the front and 100mm (4.0") on the back on mu 2005 999S. I want 40-50% of loaded sag seen when the bike is standing alone (unloaded sag). My theory is that I want 2/3 of available suspension travel available for compression (bounce) because that's much more common and more sever than what you get in the opposite direction (jounce), which I provide only 1/3 of available travel.

So, yes, I have about 1" of loaded rear sag.....

VMMV

 

[mbevans]

I'm going to take her for for a longer ride and try and get a better feel for this spring, as presently it seems waaayyyy too stiff with only 1" of sag, might need to go to a 29/85 spring.

Sure she will see the track in the spring, but presently my riding will be street focussed so I was shooting for 1.50" of sag........And I'm not close to that.

 

[Bella749]

You sure there's not something going on with your compression circuit?

I mean, I'm running a -34/100 spring and I weigh 145lb. Granted, that's with a flat-rate rocker, and it's a little stiff for me.

FWIW, the 1091-19 is a 70nm spring, and that was too soft for me; both with the flat-rate and progressive-rate rockers. I have one in the garage if you need one cheap.

Also, to correct the previous post, it's a -19/70, not -19/90... the number after the slash is the spring rate in newton-meters

 

[BrianG]

You really to determine the unloaded sag as well as the loaded sag. You can shift the loaded sag number all over the place by moving the preload rings. You don't want your suspension to top out either....

If the spring is too firm the unloaded sag value will be close to the loaded value. If it's too soft you might even have to set so much preload that the suspension tops out when you are off the bike. Neither is good. The 1/2 of loaded value for unloaded sag is a good target.

And Bella is right.... get all of your sag numbers with the damping circuits open all the way.....

Incidentally the sag number is the average of 2 values. Push the bike down at the subframe, and let it rise on it's own = value #1. Lift the bike at the subframe, and let it settle = value #2.

 

[mopar]

Hi I see that you have the wrong spring height as stated above by Ducshop.
The shock#1091=160mm and shock #1092=170mm or 6.3 inches vs 6.7 inches. That is .4 of an inch to long for starting height so you can not set this up on your 999s. The second number is spring rate code and the third number is the spring rate in N/mm.
1091=160mm
36=105 which is 600 lbs/in
I think the spring on the 999s was a 1091-21=75/428lbs/in, so you see that the spring you have is wrong. The ohlins shock needs some preload to open
valve openings for shock fluid or the shock does not work very well and will
ride very hard. I just need to know what your weight is with gear and from there we can see what shock will work for you. Larry Antelope, Ca

 

[paulmm600]

All I can say to the shop that set this up, is thanks JASON for F**king me!!!

Mark

good luck getting anything worth while from jason, pm sent.


.

 

[bigbadducks]

Hi I see that you have the wrong spring height as stated above by Ducshop.
The shock#1091=160mm and shock #1092=170mm or 6.3 inches vs 6.7 inches. That is .4 of an inch to long for starting height so you can not set this up on your 999s.

Wrong, it doesn’t matter. If anything the longer spring will perform better than the shorter one by staying linear in rate for more travel than the shorter one. The only possible sliver of an argument that the spring is incorrect would be the extra weight of the 10mm of extra coil. Next time before you decide to make a statement be sure to know something about what you are talking about.

The second number is spring rate code and the third number is the spring rate in kg/mm.

Wrong again Mr. Know It All. It’s the spring rate in NM.

I think the spring on the 999s was a 1091-21=75/428lbs/in, so you see that the spring you have is wrong. The ohlins shock needs some preload to open
valve openings for shock fluid or the shock does not work very well and will
ride very hard. I just need to know what your weight is with gear and from there we can see what shock will work for you. Larry Antelope, Ca

No one listen to this guy! He doesn’t have a clue.


Larry, stop giving out setup advice. You're going to get someone hurt.

The 1/2 of loaded value for unloaded sag is a good target.

WRONG!!!!!

1/3 is as high as you want to go unless the rider is lap record fast and is running SBK grip tires.

You keyboard cowboys need to cut it out with the advice. Your all clueless.

And Bella is right.... get all of your sag numbers with the damping circuits open all the way.....

Doesn't matter on a shock unless its a KZ1000

Incidentally the sag number is the average of 2 values. Push the bike down at the subframe, and let it rise on it's own = value #1. Lift the bike at the subframe, and let it settle = value #2.

Incidentally sag numbers don't need to be that specific. All they are is a place to start testing. You don't need to measure something down to .5mm when there is no "right or wrong"

If you can't think outside the box you will never understand even the basics of suspension.

Here's the Ohins spring number 010292-36/105-L076
I'm 200 lbs.

Thats perfect. 150lb riders that aren't even that fast need to be on a 9.0 or a 9.5.

and I cannot get 15mm of static sag out of this bike

Good, thats too much.

with me not on it, maybe 10mm max.

Perfect

My guess is your swingarm is too short. Or your rear ride height is wrong.

The chart we made shows you should use a 01091-29/90 with about 15mm of pre-load for your weight unless you are running a 749R link. 01092 is a 10mm longer spring than a 01091.

Your chart is wrong.

Its amazing you could even find your chart in that huge suspension area….oh, did I say area? I meant table that you have dedicated to your groundbreaking R&D.

Don’t you guys build motors or something?

Hello All,
I switched my rear spring on my Ohlins rear shock 999s to a Ohlins 01091-29/90 L250. Yet at 200lbs I can only get 1" of sag, according to most people I need to get a 1.50-1.75" of overall sag, right??

Nope, you want to start at 30mm (1.18")

On my 2005 999S I have installed the 01091-29/90 to replace the stock 70Nm unit and I wouldn't want the bike any stiffer. I am 220 lb without gear.

What you don’t understand is that it will ride softer with a stiffer spring. If you knew anything about how compression valving works you would understand.

Or you ride like a little girl.

I am not a fan of the firmer-is-better suspension philosophy.....

Apparently you are, your bike is set up like a ill handling brick with horrible dynamic geometry.

I also didn't change the valving in the shock or forks, and I find I still have sufficient adjustment on either side of the settings I like.

Forks aren’t bad. If you had a spring on the shock that was even in the same galaxy as what you should be on the valving in your shock would be horrible. The only reason you have not tank slapped yourself off the side of the road is that you are using your compression circuit as a spring…..which it is not.

FYI, I planned to change from the stock .95 kg fork springs to 1.00 kg units, but discovered that I got my 15mm of unloaded/loaded sag difference with the .95kg units. This was found to be at a lower range than I wanted, even with app the pre-load dialed in, so I just had to add 30mm (3/4") to the internal spring spacer length to get to the sag shifted to the desired range of 20mm/35mm unloaded/loaded.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Your bike is a disaster. STOP GIVING ADVICE! YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SUSPENSION!!!!!

You now have the spring that Section 8 recommended for the 2003-2004 999, for your body weight. They suggest the 90 Nm unit I installed as being for 165-175 lbs, and that's no where near my experience with the 2005 999S. I don't know if the early rocker system provided different leverage than the later swingarm system, but it's no surprize to me that you are riding a rock, based on my experience with the later model.

Your experience is crap.

Stop Giving Advice!!! You are Clueless!!!

Now scurry off and go argue about oil or something.

So I should have a 01091-19/90 NOT a 01091-29/90?

Stop asking him questions, he has no idea what he is talking about.

Dan Kyle says I should have 29/90, but the 29/90 nets me soo little sag.

Don't listen to Dan either. He doesn't know anything that he didn't copy off of someone else.

All I can say to the shop that set this up, is thanks JASON for F**king me!!!

Mark

If Jason set you up your components are right. There is no one else in the US that can set a Duck up like Jason can and maybe only 1 or 2 people that could outride him on one.

My guess is that you pissed Jason off (which is easy to do) and he told you to get bent and won't help you anymore. Jason puts up with no crap from no one. He is a firm believer that when it comes to suspension “The customer is always wrong”. If that was not the case they wouldn’t need to be customers, they would set themselves up. I'm sure he told you to beat it and you didn't like it one bit.

See ya all in another year or so.

You Hens have fun squaking while I'm gone.

 

[mopar]

As far thr Bigbadducks goes I converted the nm to inches as it is easy for some people to understand, All I was saying he has the wrong spring for the Ohlins 999 shock. I did not tell anyone to go out and buy anything or how to set up his blke. Just trying to pass on some information. N/mm=kg/mm=lbs/in all equals the same thing. Like 105 N/mm is equal to 10.7 kg/mm is equal to 600 lbs/in Larry

 

[BrianG]

See ya all in another year or so.

You Hens have fun squaking while I'm gone.

This is undoubtedly Jason of Dept of Suspension. There's nobody else on the planet that would whore for him like bigbadducks has.

What you don’t understand is that it will ride softer with a stiffer spring. If you knew anything about how compression valving works you would understand.

Yes, Jason, we can certainly see that Mark is pleased with the results of your "theories" and your work.



If anyone wants to see another litany of his crap I can email you the diatribe of bullsh*t he fed me.

His approach to suspension tuning may or may not be viable, but as he admits above, he has absolutely no idea about how to deal with customers. If you question him and discover that he's actually WRONG about something he will do precisely as he says..... He'll have a tantrum to deflect his error and he'll abandon you and leave you with hundreds of $$$ worth of useless hardware, absent the tech support he promised in the deal.

Deal with this guy at your own risk!

 

[mbevans]

Re: ohlins spring

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Larry, appreciate it!
Yes there are a few that believe in certain suspension tuners, and their "set-ups".
I'm starting again to "re-set" all my numbers and will try and make sense of what my 999S should be set up at.
Please understand I did not mention any company in particular, OK??!!?? Just someones first name. Yes that person "may" go really fast on the same type of bike, yet when a person (buyer) waits 6 months to get his parts back, the parts are all wrong (rigid framed Ducati's) do not work that well, it sucks, it wipes away faith in people (suspension tuners).
Also to have the head of Ohlins suspension north America technical services, to not be able to say ANYTHING, for fear of creating more bad press about a certain individual, that is bad. We all live in a small world, and the word gets out, simple really.
And if we are on the subject of a guy named Jason, I have gotten PM's from others that have been waiting over a year for a group buy of 27mm triples that have never received them, of course paid for a long time ago..........That flat F'ed up, remember it is a small world, you cannot be an ass, without many finding out and hating this person deeply......
That is not the way you run a business, in fact anyone soo stupid in today's world he should go back to work at BurgerKing.....

Thanks all,
Mark

 

[Ducshop]

Jason Utter, you're a pretty intertaining Troll. Lol!

Your chart is wrong.

Its amazing you could even find your chart in that huge suspension area….oh, did I say area? I meant table that you have dedicated to your groundbreaking R&D.

Don’t you guys build motors or something?

 

[mbevans]

DucShop, you are right, the words spoken by BIGBADDUCKS are very much like a certain person named Jason, waaaayyy too funny......I was trying to think who would dump soo much "good-words" about such a slime-ball, makes total sense......
As anyone slamming Dan Kyle, soo blatently, must be a Bozo......

So Jason you are now a certified troll, I'm still laughing over this one, I'll be grinning all day!!!

Jason Utter, you're a pretty intertaining Troll. Lol!

 

[BrianG]

Re: ohlins spring

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Larry, appreciate it!
Yes there are a few that believe in certain suspension tuners, and their "set-ups".
I'm starting again to "re-set" all my numbers and will try and make sense of what my 999S should be set up at.
Please understand I did not mention any company in particular, OK??!!?? Just someones first name. Yes that person "may" go really fast on the same type of bike, yet when a person (buyer) waits 6 months to get his parts back, the parts are all wrong (rigid framed Ducati's) do not work that well, it sucks, it wipes away faith in people (suspension tuners).
Also to have the head of Ohlins suspension north America technical services, to not be able to say ANYTHING, for fear of creating more bad press about a certain individual, that is bad. We all live in a small world, and the word gets out, simple really.
And if we are on the subject of a guy named Jason, I have gotten PM's from others that have been waiting over a year for a group buy of 27mm triples that have never received them, of course paid for a long time ago..........That flat F'ed up, remember it is a small world, you cannot be an ass, without many finding out and hating this person deeply......
That is not the way you run a business, in fact anyone soo stupid in today's world he should go back to work at BurgerKing.....

Thanks all,
Mark

I don't understand the sensitivity about mentioning an individual's name or a company's name if you have had a negative experience that they won't resolve. We are a rather small community of afficionado's, and there should be no room in it for clowns that don't provide the quality of parts and service that we demand. If Jason of Dept of Suspension is a unrepentant screw-up, word should get around quickly and his days will be numbered.

A decent company/person would address the comment and resolve the issue, and then hopefully see a subsequent positive comment regarding their superior customer service.

A crap organization/individual will defend their poor products, services and ideas with a diatribe of BS to try to deflect their accountability to the marketplace. Of course that will fail, and the clown will inevitably end up back flipping burgers, as he so richly deserves, in spite of the allegation that he can get there fast.