[Purspeed]

How easy is the install for mechanically inclined folks?

Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[John]

Slipper

If you don't race or do aggressive track days, I wouldn't bother. Most who have them don't need them. I would learn better clutch throttle control, develop a smooth delivery and you will become a better rider.

 

[Synergy]

If you are not a moderately fast, agressive track rider you really dont need one. You will, with time get used to the wheel hop found on hard downshifts with the stock clutch. You can deacrease the wheel hop by going to a lighter aluminium clutch basket, plates and pressure plate. That combo will be about 1/3 the cost of a slipper and decrease the rear wheel hop quite a bit. If you do the clutch, your might also want to consider a clutch slave upgrade at the same time.


Now about changing the clutch yourself. You will need a few tools and some specific to the clutch:
-Clutch Holding Tool
-Torque Wrench
-Various metric sockets
-Loctite

Get a Haynes or LT Synder shop manual and it can be done in a hour if you have mechanical aptitude.

 

[Purspeed]

Thanks for the info so far, very useful. However, technically how does it function?

I read somewhere that the rear wheel can lock during downshifts, and that is a safety issue to me, so if I can improve safety by replacing this component, I may be interested unless I misread.

 

[DukeDesmo]

From someone who doesn't have (or want) a slipper clutch, if you don't know what it does then you don't need one. I've never felt the need for one as I always synchronise revs to roadspeed on downshifts and if you can do that then you don't need one - and if you can't then you should learn or get a twist n' go.

IMO the only people that may benefit from a slipper clutch are 'fast' racers who may not have time to worry about synchronising revs/speed and even then there is only a small benefit.

Spend your money (slipper clutches are expensive) on something else.

 

[Synergy]

What happens with a stock clutch when the rpms dont match road speed and you downshift (usually a hard downshift) the clutch will grab for a second and the rear wheel with lock-up or wheel hop. Basically you will feel a brief grab of the rear tire and it locks. As a new rider it can be and little un-nerving and make you think something went wrong. Wheel hop happens on all bikes and even more with Ducati's since the motors have more engine braking.

A slipper clutch has a different designed hub, that its basically self explainatory, it wont allow the clutch to lock and cause wheel hop. That way when your on the track and coming in hard and fast into a corner and your in high revs that your rear wheel wont hop thus disrupting your suspension, etc...

A new light weight alum clutch setup can run 5-700 bucks and slipper clutch runs upward of 2k bucks. Use the money you save on the slipper to go to track days and really learn to ride your bike.

 

[moto]

Not all slipper clutches are $2000+. They are $2000 only if you want to help sponsor a WSBK team...
We have a slipper clutch that is only slightly more than a conventional aluminum clutch assembly. The Motowheels slipper is $899 complete with surflex aluminum plates.

You will still need to match the RPMs with a slipper clutch. The slipper is just a little more forgiving if you don't match it just right or if you let the clutch out too fast. If you find the rear is hopping on downshifts, it is not a bad thing to have. It is just one less thing that you have to manage.

 

[Purspeed]

Thanks for the detailed explanation everyone. Now, if the wheel locks for a moment, can this cause a highside?

Also, is this why you see the pro's "blib" the throttle as they downshift several times into corners?

 

[DukeDesmo]

Throttle 'Blip' on downshift

I thought everyone blipped the throttle on downshifts?, I always have whether on a bike or in a car - if you don't then you're asking for trouble especially on a big twin......

 

[amullo]

Blipping the throttle becomes second nature to most really fast trackriders regardless of engine and "moderate to fast" trackriders using bigtwins like Ducati and Aprilia.

The Twin has a higher rotating weight in the engine, which doesn´t allow the engine to spin up fast enough to match the speed of the rearwheel when you let out the clutch under heavy braking at high speeds. Since the engine can´t spool up and the clutch isn´t designed to slip, then the only thing left is the rearwheel that can let go off the tarmac IE: lock(or actually rotating alot slower then the speed off passing tarmac) while the engine spools up.

Blipping the throttle raises the RPM and allows a smooth connection of the wheel and engine through the clutch. It also decreases initial rearwheel brakeing, keeping the rear "inline" with the front (not sliding out..)

Blipping is just yanking the throttle slightly during the time you have the clutch "in", so your artificially raising the rpm instead of only letting the rearwheel do it for you. A slipper will allow you to ignore blipping, since it is effectivly doing the same thing. IE: matching engine speed with finaldrive speed.

It takes some practice to "BLIP" smoothly while braking and having lighter enginecomponents helps, but it´s really a "poor-mans" slipperclutch. Some might even call it "old-school" since you don´t need to do it if you have a high end slipperclutch. But it´s a good thing to know about and to practice.

It has become so second nature to me that i do it almost every downshift (even in town..). If nothing else, it´ll probably save me a few miles on the clutch.

//amullo

 

[DukeDesmo]

Some might even call it "old-school" since you don´t need to do it if you have a high end slipperclutch. But it´s a good thing to know about and to practice.

Synchronising revs to roadspeed should be second nature to anyone riding/driving a manual gearbox vehicle, I find it hard to believe that anyone would ride a bike and just dump the clutch on downshifts!

Nowadays there are many driver/rider 'aids' such as ABS, ESP, traction control etc (my car is full of them) that can help but that is no excuse for not taking the time and effort of not learning to ride/drive properly. To me that's one of the main reasons for riding bikes - simplicity and raw experience without all the comforts and 'assistance' of a car.

Plus as a youngster learning to ride, apart from being taught to do it, I always thought it looked & sounded 'cool' to blip the throttle, what more reason do you need

It has become so second nature to me that i do it almost every downshift (even in town..). If nothing else, it´ll probably save me a few miles on the clutch.

Indeed and your chain, gears, rear tyre, bearings, cush drive, even your motor - in short all mechanical compnents in the drivetrain, you're also less likely to lose the back end if the surface is not good or if you're at a good lean angle and it's more comfortable for rider and any passenger.

 

[grendels_arm]

It's interesting that in my car driver's ed class back in high school and in my motorcycle safety class they never mentioned blipping the throttle. So I wouldn't be surprised that people do not know it. I don't do it at all. I've got so much other things to worry about on the track that I've yet to try blipping the throttle or clutchless upshifts.

 

[migz123]

grendel -- blipping and clutchless upshifts are uncomfortable in the beginning, but are rather easy to learn... after just a few times, you will get the hang of it, and it will completely change your riding... for the better! Most especially on the track. With these, you and your bike's engine are more 'connected.'

Try it out, just step by step, and you will be blipping and clutchless shifting all day long in no time.

The tricky thing to learn is blipping/downshift while braking:

This would require a bit more coordination, because you are doing at least 7 things all within the span of 1 second: Scanning the environment, shifting your body position, modulating your throttle, then blipping the throttle at the right moment and magnitude to set-up engine rev, timing your clutch pull to the downshift action of your foot and ... all of this while modulating the front brake!

(MotoGP guys will do this WHILE SLIDING even, but they are not human, so they don't count )

The very tricky part is that you avoid pulling the front brake too hard while you are blipping... this can be dangerous, so it will take a bit of practice in safe environment to master. But after some practice, it will be very natural and easy.

 

[grendels_arm]

The main reason I don't attempt to blip is I'm scared I'll screw up and either not brake enough or brake too much. But I can hear it when the advanced guys blip when I'm watching them.

 

[migz123]

Start off with blipping/downshift without braking first, practice on that a few hundred times ... do it every time you downshift (your engine will like you more for it , and you will ride better as a result) ... then you will be ready to blip/downshift while braking, which will take your skill (especially track skill) to a whole new level.

 

[T2000]

Is the blip before or during the release of the clutch?

 

[migz123]

Is the blip before or during the release of the clutch?

Blip a fraction of a second before pulling in the clutch lever.... You should be done blipping and back to modulating by the time you engage the gear and release the clutch lever ... this should all happen in less than 1 second.

Practice first with blipping and just the clutch lever pull, don't change gears yet. Just do the hand motions first ..... Do this a few times until you get the timing right. (You can even do this motion while sitting on your desk )

When you are comfortable with the timing, then do the same thing again... except this time, you will add a downshift in there.

Before you know it, you will be blip/downshifting all day and all night long.

 

[T2000]

Blip a fraction of a second before pulling in the clutch. You should be done blipping and back to modulating by the time you engage the gear and release the clutch... this should all happen in less than 1 second.

So putting this in order without the braking piece, would it be?

1. Blip, no clutch
2. No throttle, clutch in
3. Change gears
4. Clutch out, still no throttle

Sorry to ask such a dumb question, I've heard it done but have never done it myself.

 

[migz123]

So putting this in order without the braking piece, would it be?

1. Blip, no clutch
2. No throttle, clutch in
3. Change gears
4. Clutch out, still not throttle

Sorry to ask such a dumb question, I've heard it done but have never done it myself.

It's more like:

1) Blip throttle
2) (while Blipping) pull clutch lever (finished blipping)
3) downshift
4) release clutch lever

... all in one smooth motion, finished in less than 1 second.

The order of action on your part is:

1) Right hand
2) Left hand
3) Left foot


Practice with only hand motions first... do it over and over until its natural... and then later add foot motion to complete it.

 

[grendels_arm]

CAn you provide a hint as to how much of a twist of the throttle a blip is ?