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Try opening and comparing the .ign files on each PC with a basic text editor and check they look identical. If your not sure hew to do this you can email them to me and I will check them for you.
Even if I take a file that works on my 'good' laptop and copy it to and load that directly from the 'bad' one, the problem is the same.

The Ignitech software just doesn't run right on the 'bad' laptop, no idea why it is only a year old and running Windows 7 and works fine on everything else - I have tried deleting/re-installing etc. to no avail and Ignitech said they'd never seen the problem before.

However I'm certain it's an IT/Windows/Samsung problem rather than an Ignitech one but it had us stumped the first time I took the bike to the dyno as it just wouldn't run right and we didn't have another computer at the time.

We did initially suspect the Ignitech unit to be faulty as swapping it with a known good unit from a running bike cured the problem, however re-programming mine from another PC also cured the problem and it's been fine since.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Even if I take a file that works on my 'good' laptop and copy it to and load that directly from the 'bad' one, the problem is the same.

The Ignitech software just doesn't run right on the 'bad' laptop, no idea why it is only a year old and running Windows 7 and works fine on everything else - I have tried deleting/re-installing etc. to no avail and Ignitech said they'd never seen the problem before.

However I'm certain it's an IT/Windows/Samsung problem rather than an Ignitech one but it had us stumped the first time I took the bike to the dyno as it just wouldn't run right and we didn't have another computer at the time.

We did initially suspect the Ignitech unit to be faulty as swapping it with a known good unit from a running bike cured the problem, however re-programming mine from another PC also cured the problem and it's been fine since.
The issue I had seems slightly different from yours, but in the interests of accumulating knowledge in one thread...

On the one occasion I had the corrupted .ign file no amount of editing it via the Ignitech windows software seemed to fix it and reloading it multiple times didn't fix it. Jan sent me replacement firmware that boot loaded into the Ignitech. I then sucked a fresh .ign file off another unit and loaded into the unit that had been playing up. I then edited that to what I needed and have had no problems ever since.

I suspect that the unit originally got corrupted due to having it sitting right next to my coils in the battery box. I have since repositioned the coils on to the sides of the frame away from the Ignitech.
 

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Actually, due to these issues, plus I was having problems getting a steady tacho reading (tacho or interefence problem?) and I still get a bit of 'scatter'. I bought a new Ignitech to confirm/deny that there maybe a problem with the original.

The latest unit is V88 and the software is not compatible with V80 (don't know what the differences are?) however either unit runs exactly the same although I still have the same issues with the Samsung laptop on V88.

Anyway scatter aside, I have managed to get around the tacho issue (by programming -50% correction) and the bike runs fine and I feel more 'comfortable' having a spare ignition, just in case one should fail.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Actually, due to these issues, plus I was having problems getting a steady tacho reading (tacho or interefence problem?) and I still get a bit of 'scatter'. I bought a new Ignitech to confirm/deny that there maybe a problem with the original.

The latest unit is V88 and the software is not compatible with V80 (don't know what the differences are?) however either unit runs exactly the same although I still have the same issues with the Samsung laptop on V88.

Anyway scatter aside, I have managed to get around the tacho issue (by programming -50% correction) and the bike runs fine and I feel more 'comfortable' having a spare ignition, just in case one should fail.
The V88 units run different firmware and hardware. They have a number of extended features most of which are undocumented in Ignitechs manual (which they didn't update) and most of which are accessed by selecting 'special settings' where you would normally select the bike type, it's the last option in the list of bikes. Once you select it you will notice you get access to a number of advanced features.

Hmm certainly seems your problem is computer related...possibly the com port or USB converter incompatibility (if you are using a USB cable). Obviously not telling you anything you haven't already established.

Again not likely to be related to your scatter problem....I have seen severe scatter (viewed with a timing light). Using a timing light I have with an ultra sensitive sensor on the pick up wires I was able to verify that the pick ups were providing a very erratic signal to the Ignitech unit.

I completely resolved the scatter issue and got rock solid timing by reducing the pick up gap on the bike from 0.8 mm to between 0.5mm and 0.6 mm. Made an amazing difference to the way the bike ran at all revs.
 

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Thanks, I don't suppose any of the extra features in the V88 are required for my setup anyway.

The scatter is visible with a timing light and seems more so at low RPM although oil splash stops me seeing anything above a certain speed.

Due to the tacho output giving me problems on my Translogic dash (it would randomly 'reset' on start up and then give me double the RPM reading) I tried connecting to the coil outputs, as recommended by Translogic (and as I do on my 916 with no problem) however the readings were all over the place with huge spikes which, I assume, is due to interference?

I found that if I set the tacho output to -50% it remains constant, so that seems good now.

I have tried moving the pickup cables and HT leads to distance them from each other plus I have fitted ferrite chokes on the pickup cable but I'm not sure if that made any difference?

I have 0.4mm gap on the pickups but the pickups are old (1995 engine) so could be an issue, that said the bike runs fine, especially since I fitted a TPS to the one of the carbs.

Overall I'm happy with the performance of the Ignitech and any scatter doesn't seem to cause any performance related problems as the bike pulls cleanly and strongly at all revs (makes more power & torque than my 916 up to 6k) and the engine picks up instantly.

The only slight issue is occasional backfiring through the carbs at low RPM and small throttle openings (e.g. under 3k in 4th gear on steady throttle) but this is probably a combination of carbs, short intakes, cam timing, compression, light flywheel and ignition timing but it's not a problem as the bike doesn't need (or like) to run at those speeds.
 

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What carbs are you running?

The backfiring is likely caused by a combination of leanness of the needle straight dia if you are running fcr's and the wasted spark design of the carb model ignition. I had it but it went away by swiching to needles with a richer straight diameter.
 

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What carbs are you running?

The backfiring is likely caused by a combination of leanness of the needle straight dia if you are running fcr's and the wasted spark design of the carb model ignition. I had it but it went away by swiching to needles with a richer straight diameter.
Split single FCR41s on short manifolds, we did pay particular attention to mixture when on the dyno and it is running on the rich side everywhere but I have ST2 cams which I reckon may not be as good for low speed running as the Monster cams but it makes pretty good power and with a good spread of torque.

The backfire is only occasional and only a 'small' one which only happens if I'm running slowly in too high a gear on a steady throttle, it doesn't happen on closed throttle or if accelerating (most of the time!).

In case you're interested, I have attached a dyno print out, although we did up the jetting slightly after this to make it richer (don't have a printout) but power remained the same.

Blue is with no filters and red is with filters fitted;



The engine was newly built at the dyno time with only a couple of hundred miles and it has now loosened up nicely plus I have since fitted a TPS which makes it ride better - not sure if the power is any better now? I need to get back to the dyno soon with some other filter options...
 

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The dyno graph shows only full throttle afr (main jet) so you may well be lean on the needle diameter. This is the case on both 41's and 39's with the EMT needles they come with, but I have not verified it with split carbs.

Probably no dyno tuner will change the needles even if they are not optimal for the bike. I suggest you try the EMR needles. The 39's will need even EMQ to avoid the leanness. A too lean needle diameter will cause backfiring exactly in the conditions you describe.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks, I don't suppose any of the extra features in the V88 are required for my setup anyway.

The scatter is visible with a timing light and seems more so at low RPM although oil splash stops me seeing anything above a certain speed.
P
I have 0.4mm gap on the pickups but the pickups are old (1995 engine) so could be an issue, that said the bike runs fine, especially since I fitted a TPS to the one of the carbs.

Overall I'm happy with the performance of the Ignitech and any scatter doesn't seem to cause any performance related problems as the bike pulls cleanly and strongly at all revs (makes more power & torque than my 916 up to 6k) and the engine picks up instantly.

The only slight issue is occasional backfiring through the carbs at low RPM and small throttle openings (e.g. under 3k in 4th gear on steady throttle) but this is probably a combination of carbs, short intakes, cam timing, compression, light flywheel and ignition.
Your timing can and should be rock solid. When I had my scatter issue I thought it was only at low revs because like you that was all I could observe and I only noticed the bike doing the soft backfire thing below 4000 rpm. But once I fixed the problem it was evident that it had been occurring unnoticed throughout the rev range as the extra power I suddenly got everywhere was delightful.

That pickup gap needs to be set with a wire gauge as a flat gauge inserted into a curved space will not measure correctly.

Incidentally it seemed the Kukasans are much more tolerant of a weak pickup signal as the scatter only occurred with the Ignitech. Whenever I swapped the Ignitech back in the scatter went away.

Fix your scatter problem....there is no need to have it. You could try Ignitech's replacement pick ups. They are 400 ohm from memory and should provide a stronger signal (more wiring turns).

Yep adding a TPS certainly makes a big difference. With the TPS fitted and the Scatter problem fixed my engine runs more smoothly than the fuel injected Hyperstrada I rode last week.

Spike out of interest did you ever do a before and after comparison with the ST2 cams ....I am thinking they might be the next thing to play with.
 

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The dyno graph shows only full throttle afr (main jet) so you may well be lean on the needle diameter. This is the case on both 41's and 39's with the EMT needles they come with, but I have not verified it with split carbs.

Probably no dyno tuner will change the needles even if they are not optimal for the bike. I suggest you try the EMR needles. The 39's will need even EMQ to avoid the leanness. A too lean needle diameter will cause backfiring exactly in the conditions you describe.
Thanks, actually the 'spec' list is wrong on that chart, actual carb setup is as follows;

Main Jet; 165
Main Air Jet; 200
Slow Jet; 60
Needle; OCELV
Needle Clip; 5th from top
Fuel screw; 1 1/2 turns out
Slow Air Screw; 1-1/2 turns out
Float height; 9mm

We made these changes to stop it running lean, didn't gain any power but made sure the AFR was not too high as I don't want to melt anything! We spent time ensuring that under load at lower RPM (3k, 4k etc) it was OK, as before it would run way too lean.

If anything it's rich overall (although I think the accelerator pumps exaggerate this) and the tailpipe colouring would confirm that although that's not to say there could be times when it's lean?

I wanted to get some miles on it and make a few changes, particularly the filters as I'm not too happy with them (but space is an issue) but I plan to get back to the dyno soon, maybe I should try some new needles - the thing is achieving (near) perfection is going to be time consuming.
 

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Fix your scatter problem....there is no need to have it. You could try Ignitech's replacement pick ups. They are 400 ohm from memory and should provide a stronger signal (more wiring turns).

Yep adding a TPS certainly makes a big difference. With the TPS fitted and the Scatter problem fixed my engine runs more smoothly than the fuel injected Hyperstrada I rode last week.

Spike out of interest did you ever do a before and after comparison with the ST2 cams ....I am thinking they might be the next thing to play with.
Yes, I'll be looking at doing something over the winter, maybe the Ignitech pickups are a good idea? Or better shielding/relocation of the coils/leads?

It runs smoothly enough above 3k, under this it is a bit 'lumpy' but I think that's down to the engine configuration and I don't mind that, it is what I expected from this build.

Never ran the engine with the Monster cams and I don't have them any more so can't try that.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
Today as an experiment I finally got around to installing a new relay to power the Ignitech in the project bike. Because relays eventually all fail I wired it in parallel with the existing ignition feed so if the relay fails the bike won't cut out at a dangerous moment!

Of course wiring it in parallel meant that it was self latching and when I turned off the key the bike kept running. Easy fix for this was a diode.

It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement in the way the bike runs when I get a chance to go for a test ride. If there is a noticeable improvement I will add the details to the free FastBikeGear version of the Ignitech manual.
I also made two other changes/remedies and finally got to go for a good ride to test it. Very very good results. I wouldn't have believed that there was that much more low end torque still lurking in this engine between 3000 and 5000rpm. But because I made three changes instead of only one I pulled the relay out of it's plug .....and proved that the gains weren't from the relay!

The other two changes I made was to enable the 'spark before lobe' feature I got with the latest firmware update and also re calilibrate the TPS.

I suspect the gain is from enabling the power before lobe feature as I know have up to 41 degrees advance in some sites in my 3D map. I will disable this feature next time I ride the bike to prove this....duh now I am playing with it to remove power....what is wrong with me?!

Once I know I will update our free Ignitech manual with the info. If anyone wants a free coup jus email me [email protected] and I will email it to you. I don't care if you bought your Ignitech from us or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Once I know I will update our free Ignitech manual with the info. If anyone wants a free coup jus email me [email protected] and I will email it to you. I don't care if you bought your Ignitech from us or not.
Have done several updates and additions to manual incorporating latest discoveries.

Latest version of the free FastBikeGear unofficial Ignitech manual is now Version 7.0
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Mounted new switch on clipons so that I can retard ignition timing while riding. Will help when I can't buy 98 octane fuel and I can also retard timing when bike gets hot in traffic. Picture below taken without waterproof rubber cover over the toggle switch.

I have also discovered that with the switch in the 3 degrees retarded position the bikes starts much better when cold....which is great because the FBG Frankencati has FCR flat slide carburettors with no choke and has always been a reluctant morning starter...a bit like the rider!

Another bonus and the key reason for doing it, is that by switching to a slightly retarded timing while riding the bike, I can compare two different timing options at various revs and throttle openings (bike also has a TPS fitted) to see which timing it prefers at any point. Then when I get home I can reprogramme the main map in the Ignitech accordingly.
 

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Mounted new switch on clipons so that I can retard ignition timing while riding.
Interesting, how does the switch change the timing? Presumably using one of the inputs? Would be useful as an onboard map change testing facility.

To update on my running issues; over winter refresh showed that I had a problem with the cylinder plating and I had to get the barrels replated & new rings, hopefully this problem is resolved now? I've fitted 'gapless' top rings that I'm hoping should give some improvement?

Anyway I fitted new intake stacks and filters as I wasn't happy with the Keihin stacks and sock filters from a filtration point of view. The new intakes are longer and a little narrower so may not be as good power-wise? but I can get proper K&N filters on them now and they incorporate the air screws which I'm more comfortable with.

In doing this I had to reposition the Ignitech as it was in the way of the bigger vertical filter.

So, I re-routed the cable from the engine pickups around the back of the vertical cylinder carb so that it no longer crosses paths with the rear cylinder HT lead and now the bike is noticeably easier to start (first push of the button) and easier to keep running whilst cold (aided by the 916 twistgrip with fast-idle button that I also fitted).

On checking the timing, it is now much more stable and this shows with the better low-speed running & starting - can't say I can see any difference at higher RPM but then it ran well enough before, although the sub 3k backfire on steady throttle seems to be less ? (but still there)

Maybe this is (at least part) temperature related? as it's still quite cool here and I've fitted a bigger oil cooler to keep the temps down.

Not been to the dyno yet as I'm wanting to get the running-in done thoroughly as I'm paranoid about the cylinder plating being fully run-in before I subjest it to a dyno run, but it needs to be done to see what changes the intakes/TPS/'cleaner' ignition and the new Spaghetti headers have made.

But so far the signs are good...
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Interesting, how does the switch change the timing? Presumably using one of the inputs? Would be useful as an onboard map change testing facility.
Exactly. And yes there is a feature that allows you to retard timing by a preprogrammed amount using either of the two switched inputs...this feature could also be used for a quick shifter.

In doing this I had to reposition the Ignitech as it was in the way of the bigger vertical filter.

So, I re-routed the cable from the engine pickups around the back of the vertical cylinder carb so that it no longer crosses paths with the rear cylinder HT lead and now the bike is noticeably easier to start (first push of the button) and easier to keep running whilst cold (aided by the 916 twistgrip with fast-idle button that I also fitted).

On checking the timing, it is now much more stable
Nice idea using the 916 throttle twist grip. We have never noticed any interference between HT leads and pick up leads but theory suggests it is best practice to keep them away from each other.

Your timing should be rock solid. The flywheel on the Frankencati appears frozen stationary when using a timing light, absolutely no jitter at all. It used to have a lot of jitter. We think we have found a couple of things that have achieved this but are still testing/verifying. Will release findings and new product hopefully shortly. Just trying to contract someone to make it for us.
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
For the past few years we have given our unofficial IGNITECH manual away for free to literally hundreds of Ignitech's customers and received terrific and very satisfying feed back.

During this period we have constantly improved and expanded it to cover new features added to the units, tips, recommendations and explanations.

A decision was made a few weeks away to charge a small fee for the manual to cover this ongoing work, ($10).

I hope everyone understands this is not a get rich quick proposition but a way I can encourage myself to continue the service.

The manual can now be purchased as an emailed PDF from the FastBikeGear web site here.

I will continue to attempt to answer questions and post tips, recommendations, etc in this thread of course.
 

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Nice idea using the 916 throttle twist grip.
It certainly makes it easier that I can start it and leave it idling rather than having to sit there 'tickling' the throttle.

The only downside is that the throttle cam on a 916 grip is larger than the Motion-pro that I was using (was around a quarter turn) and it results in a very quick throttle action (916 throttle is quarter turn on a 916 but about half of that on the FCRs) - I don't mind that but it means that the throttle is also very heavy, which I reckon could get quite tiring on a long ride. It certainly means you can get on the power quickly though!

Your timing should be rock solid. The flywheel on the Frankencati appears frozen stationary when using a timing light, absolutely no jitter at all.
I'm wondering how much of the jitter is attributable to the lightweight flywheel? I have the Nichols flywheel that is very light - basically just a carrier for the ignition trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
It certainly makes it easier that I can start it and leave it idling rather than having to sit there 'tickling' the throttle.

The only downside is that the throttle cam on a 916 grip is larger than the Motion-pro that I was using (was around a quarter turn) and it results in a very quick throttle action (916 throttle is quarter turn on a 916 but about half of that on the FCRs) - I don't mind that but it means that the throttle is also very heavy, which I reckon could get quite tiring on a long ride. It certainly means you can get on the power quickly though!
Another option may be just to use a Go Cruise Throttle control on the standard MotionPro thorttle unit. Very simple and easy and they work very well for idle and cruising.


I'm wondering how much of the jitter is attributable to the lightweight flywheel? I have the Nichols flywheel that is very light - basically just a carrier for the ignition trigger.
We have a half weight (1.kg) flywheel on the Frankencati and we have ABSOLUTELY NO JITTER. The Flywheel apears to be frozen stationary when viewed by a timing light.

In a PERFECT system due to the speed of electicity (approaching the speed of light) and the very fast and operation of the Ignitech's the spark plugs should fire within an extremely short and crucially non varialbe time frame after the node on the flywheel passes the trigger so even if the flywheel doubles it speed at some parts of it's revolution at idle this would not cause jitter in the timing of the spark...except due to the effects of hysteresis or if the the Ignitech was not operating correctly.

While jitter is easiest to see at idle. We believe that if you have jitter at idle you also have it all the way up to 7000 rpm. We have observed that if you remove jitter at idle the bike runs MUCH better all the way through the rev range.

From our testing we believe that jitter problems we have seen on some bikes are due to either.

  1. A weak signal or intermittent signal from the pick up. I believe that weak signal effects the hystersis of the pick ups significantly.
  2. An instable voltage supply to the Ignitech unit causing issues.

To improve the voltage signal from the pickups we have tried two things:

  1. Moving pickups closer to fylwheel (big improvement!)
  2. Using alternative pickups (only seems to provide a marginal imporvement - unless previous pickups were flaky)
To improve the voltage supply to the Ignitechs we have tried 3 things

  1. Non latching relay to power Ignitech and coils direct from battery (small improvement)
  2. Shindengen FH020 regulator (vast improvement)
  3. We are currently field testing a third option that looks extremely promising.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Sorry guys I have just realised that if you are outside Australasia you can not purchase from our web site.

Easiest thing is just to flick me an email address for a copy and I will send you back a PayPal invoice for $10 NZD.
 
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