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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, put the new start in, and it's still doing the same thing. Is it possible the Bike Master replacement battery I bought doesn't have the cranking amps to turn the starter, or that my 6 and 12 volt trickle charger can't give the battery enough of a charge? The Tucker Rockey catalog at the place I bought the battery listed it as a replacement for the 916, and it's the same 16AL battery label.

You can push start it just fine, she starts right up and runs fine, pulls strong, doesn't stall out, etc. But when you hit the starter button, it just whines, and every now and then will turn the crank to fire a cylander, but it doesn't have a steady cranking at all...it's almost random, and one or two sparks every 10 seconds or less.

So...battery amps? I've heard there's some sort of clutch between the starter motor and the crankshaft...would this be a symptom of the starter clutch going? The whine is really bad, and I"m not sure if it means the starter is spinning and not turning the crank, or not getting the cranking amps to spin. First impression to me is that the starter is whining like it's trying to spin but doesn't have the juice or oomph to actually spin the crank. But the bike runs fine if push started, so it wouldn't be the voltage regulator, right?
 

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When my battery failed the Starter relay (found to the left of the battery) whined like mad upon hitting the starter button. At the same time, the gauges and lights would fade. You likely need to get a meter reading on your battery, especially under load to see if its the culprit.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
desmofetish said:
When my battery failed the Starter relay (found to the left of the battery) whined like mad upon hitting the starter button. At the same time, the gauges and lights would fade. You likely need to get a meter reading on your battery, especially under load to see if its the culprit.
Uh...that's exactly what's happening. :/ damn, I need a cigarette. lol
 

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btw, tiewrap the molex plug on the back of this little relay/cylinder/??? so that the plug does not come loose. i've had the bike either die on me a few times or not start/crank. $#@!

 

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Have you tried checking the "one way" clutch on the starter gear? The symptoms you described, sounds like this clutch is going out. If this unit is faulty, the engine will sometimes engauge, and most of the time it will slip (like what you are describing).
 

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I know you've covered it but I'll just reiterate. I'd check the 3 most common failures first:
1. Battery/ground
2. Starter relay
3. Voltage regulator
Good luck...let us know what you find out. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
larrynsr said:
Have you tried checking the "one way" clutch on the starter gear? The symptoms you described, sounds like this clutch is going out. If this unit is faulty, the engine will sometimes engauge, and most of the time it will slip (like what you are describing).
How do you check the 'one way clutch'? When I had the crankcase off I could rotate the gear that the starter meshes with with my hands, but it was pretty difficult (probably mostly because of the oil on my hands) and I could only do it a little bit at a time, but I could only rotate it one way...is this what you're talking about? I could only spin it one way...does that mean it's ok?

Also, with a portable 12v battery jumper, do you have to let it fully charge before you try to jump a battery the first time, or can you just plug it into the wall or an extension cord and jump the battery off the wall power?
 

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dragknt said:
Also, with a portable 12v battery jumper, do you have to let it fully charge before you try to jump a battery the first time, or can you just plug it into the wall or an extension cord and jump the battery off the wall power?
i would charge it first and use it unplugged. you can also use a car battery but don't run the engine. you'll find out in a jiffy if it's the battery or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
cheech said:
i would charge it first and use it unplugged. you can also use a car battery but don't run the engine. you'll find out in a jiffy if it's the battery or not.
Fuck. Damnit. Well, it's definately the starter clutch. I tried it with the jumper and with the car battery, and now it just spins and spins and doesn't even come close to turning the crankshaft. I don't even hear much resistance anymore. Like as in no resistance. :/

So...I guess I'm push-starting it tomorrow and taking it to the Ducati dealer. I need to talk to an actual tech though, because my dealer is a ripoff.

Anyone know which pieces have to be replaced? There's the clutch wheel, the clutch wheel holder, and the driven gear. The driven gear is like $220 from my dealer (I take the inflated MSRP from BikeBandit and increase it like 10% to get my dealers price, and it's been pretty acurate so far), the clutch bearing assembly dealie will be like $170, and the holder will be like $80.
 

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dragknt said:
Fuck. Damnit. Well, it's definately the starter clutch. I tried it with the jumper and with the car battery, and now it just spins and spins and doesn't even come close to turning the crankshaft. I don't even hear much resistance anymore. Like as in no resistance. :/

So...I guess I'm push-starting it tomorrow and taking it to the Ducati dealer. I need to talk to an actual tech though, because my dealer is a ripoff.

Anyone know which pieces have to be replaced? There's the clutch wheel, the clutch wheel holder, and the driven gear. The driven gear is like $220 from my dealer (I take the inflated MSRP from BikeBandit and increase it like 10% to get my dealers price, and it's been pretty acurate so far), the clutch bearing assembly dealie will be like $170, and the holder will be like $80.
Do you have a Haynes manual? If so, look on page 2-34. It states

"inspect the one-way clutch rollers, driven gear and holder contact surfaces for signs of wear and scoring. The one-way clutch rollers and the gear and holder surfaces should be unmarked, with no signs of wear such as pitting or flat spots. Renew any componenet which shows signs of wear or damage."

It doesnt look too hard to remove according to the Haynes manual. You'd save a quite a bit of money if you do it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
larrynsr said:
Do you have a Haynes manual? If so, look on page 2-34. It states

"inspect the one-way clutch rollers, driven gear and holder contact surfaces for signs of wear and scoring. The one-way clutch rollers and the gear and holder surfaces should be unmarked, with no signs of wear such as pitting or flat spots. Renew any componenet which shows signs of wear or damage."

It doesnt look too hard to remove according to the Haynes manual. You'd save a quite a bit of money if you do it yourself.
I do have the haynes...I just went into that case cover, and I just don't feel comfortable disassembling things off of the crankshaft. *sigh* Oh well, I guess.
 

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Relax... It's a cheap fix that you can do.
The spring that holds the sprag fingers in place is shot. Don't buy the parts from Ducati.

Go to a NAPA store and get a CR (chicago rawhide) seal part #19778.
If NAPA can't get it, go to any bearing supply store. Gently turn the rubber lip over and extract the metal round spring from the seal without effing it up. Toss the seal out.

Pull the alternator cover off and the rotor. You'll see the sprag assembly and your cashed out spring. The whole project will cost you 10 bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
OldFart said:
Relax... It's a cheap fix that you can do.
The spring that holds the sprag fingers in place is shot. Don't buy the parts from Ducati.

Go to a NAPA store and get a CR (chicago rawhide) seal part #19778.
If NAPA can't get it, go to any bearing supply store. Gently turn the rubber lip over and extract the metal round spring from the seal without effing it up. Toss the seal out.

Pull the alternator cover off and the rotor. You'll see the sprag assembly and your cashed out spring. The whole project will cost you 10 bucks.
I'm sending you a PM in a minute... :)
 

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larrynsr said:
Have you tried checking the "one way" clutch on the starter gear? The symptoms you described, sounds like this clutch is going out. If this unit is faulty, the engine will sometimes engauge, and most of the time it will slip (like what you are describing).
+1 I had it happen to me!
When it "catches" does it clunk or Bang?
That could be it.
I've got to say, although it could happen, Ducati starter failure is very rare.
 

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OldFart said:
Relax... It's a cheap fix that you can do......The whole project will cost you 10 bucks.
WOW! that is an awesome tip! A new sprag is 150 some-odd bucks!
...don't ask me how I know...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
RichD said:
+1 I had it happen to me!
When it "catches" does it clunk or Bang?
That could be it.
I've got to say, although it could happen, Ducati starter failure is very rare.
Yeah, when it catches the starter slows down a -tad- and the crank turns, then it slips again...and again...and if it catches and turns the crank past TDC on a compression stroke that cylander will fire (the clunk/bang), but the crank isn't moving fast enough to start a normal automatic combustion cycle. Now it won't even catch at all. Just keeps slipping and slipping. I have a request out at the dealer for a service quote. How much did your dealer rape you for the service?

I don't have a garage at my house (don't ask), so I do my maintenance in the covered back pool area, but that's not really clean enough for me to feel comfortable tearing into things on the crankshaft. Plus I'm limited to daylight and as many spot lights as I can find a way to mount out there while I'm working.
 

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dragknt said:
Yeah, when it catches the starter slows down a -tad- and the crank turns, then it slips again...and again...and if it catches and turns the crank past TDC on a compression stroke that cylander will fire (the clunk/bang), but the crank isn't moving fast enough to start a normal automatic combustion cycle. Now it won't even catch at all. Just keeps slipping and slipping. I have a request out at the dealer for a service quote. How much did your dealer rape you for the service?

I don't have a garage at my house (don't ask), so I do my maintenance in the covered back pool area, but that's not really clean enough for me to feel comfortable tearing into things on the crankshaft. Plus I'm limited to daylight and as many spot lights as I can find a way to mount out there while I'm working.
If you want to take it someware ride it down to PCS in daytona. Tony will be able to fix it for you and would be cheaper then the Ducati Dealer. He is the best Ducati Tech I have ever met. www.pcsdaytona.com. He has been servicing my 916 since new and it's been issue free and I had him do my major 12K on the 748. He really knows his shit.

Oh while you add it have him check that nut on the altnator. He redid it on my 916 years ago and no issues what so ever.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
cachee0 said:
If you want to take it someware ride it down to PCS in daytona. Tony will be able to fix it for you and would be cheaper then the Ducati Dealer. He is the best Ducati Tech I have ever met. www.pcsdaytona.com. He has been servicing my 916 since new and it's been issue free and I had him do my major 12K on the 748. He really knows his shit.

Oh while you add it have him check that nut on the altnator. He redid it on my 916 years ago and no issues what so ever.

I've heard a lot of great things about PCS, but the only thing is that I'd have to push start it, then drive it 150 miles to get there. I don't have a truck/trailer. :/ My Ducati dealer has my nuts in a vise, because I'd rather pay more and only have to travel 3 miles than pay less and drive 150, and they know it. :(
 

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dragknt said:
I've heard a lot of great things about PCS, but the only thing is that I'd have to push start it, then drive it 150 miles to get there. I don't have a truck/trailer. :/ My Ducati dealer has my nuts in a vise, because I'd rather pay more and only have to travel 3 miles than pay less and drive 150, and they know it. :(

Oh I understand I'm in the same boat with not having anything to move a bike around. Heck just todo a hitch on my truck is 1200 bucks.
 
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