[barneyz71]

I bought a new M1100 a little over a month ago and here is my issue.
The bike is hard to start after sitting over night or longer.
It is a cold start issue. When I go out to start the bike for the first time of the day it is very hard to start. Once the bike has been running I can shut it off and the next time it will start up fine. As long as it doesn't sit for somewhere around 8 hours it will start fine.

I talked with the dealer and he said when I bring it in for the 620mi and the Termi slipons, ECU, Filter it should correct the issue. He said it was probably because it was running lean. Well I had the Termi's, ECU installed and I still have the same problem.

I took the bike back again yesterday to have it looked at. They reset the TPS and sent me on my way. So I wake up today go out to the garage to see if it fixed the cold start issue. Nope... I still have the cold start issue.

Now this is what I have learned about this issue.
On a cold start... once I get the bike running as long as I don't take it for a ride or let it warm up... it can sit all night and it will start the fine next day.
So when I get it started if I shut it back down within 30 seconds the next day it will start fine.
If I take it for a ride... put it back in the garage... The next day it does not want to start.

Now I have to bring it back to the dealer for a third time. The dealer is not close and it is impossible for me to get there during the week unless I take a day off work. So next Saturday might be the next time I can get it in.
Is there anything I could check myself? Or is there anything I should tell the dealer to look for the next time I bring it in. Because they seem lost.
Thanks,

By the way... A cold start has nothing to do with the ambient temperature. And the battery is fully charged and turns over fine.

 

[WAY]

I'm having exactly the same issue with my M1100. It's very frustrating and it can take me 5-6 times of turning the ignition on and off before it starts. I was told the same thing by the dealer and I was waiting to install the termis at first service to solve the issue. I'm not sure if I'm going to bother now.

 

[Winchester Boy]

I know this is a silly question, but you guys are using the fast idle lever aren't you?

 

[barneyz71]

I know this is a silly question, but you guys are using the fast idle lever aren't you?

No... There isn't one on the 1100.

 

[Winchester Boy]

Ok, my bad.

 

[KF6VGZ]

I can only comment on my 696 starting issues, that were remedied by the dealer.

Turns out the idle was set too low. It would stall even after being fully warmed up and miles into my ride. Start your bike up and put it in the RPM readout mode, you know, by flicking the left lever button up a few times. What does it read?

Mine was reading only 850 rpm's or so. Too low to keep the motor ticking over. So when I took the bike in for the recall issue that the M696 had, I told them about the stalling problem, and the mechanic adjusted the idle. Now, once she's warmed up, she idles at 1150-1250 rpm. A bit high for idle, but has not stalled on me since.

Look, I don't even know if this is the same problem you guys are having, but it sounds similar to mine, and since you have no cold start level, you may want to look into the idling speed and the bike's hesitation to start.

 

[barneyz71]

I can only comment on my 696 starting issues, that were remedied by the dealer.

Turns out the idle was set too low. It would stall even after being fully warmed up and miles into my ride. Start your bike up and put it in the RPM readout mode, you know, by flicking the left lever button up a few times. What does it read?

Mine was reading only 850 rpm's or so. Too low to keep the motor ticking over. So when I took the bike in for the recall issue that the M696 had, I told them about the stalling problem, and the mechanic adjusted the idle. Now, once she's warmed up, she idles at 1150-1250 rpm. A bit high for idle, but has not stalled on me since.

Look, I don't even know if this is the same problem you guys are having, but it sounds similar to mine, and since you have no cold start level, you may want to look into the idling speed and the bike's hesitation to start.

The idle is set around 1200-1300. It doesn't sound like the same trouble you had with your M696. Thanks for the reply though.

 

[Superchkn]

I'd almost think some sort of vapor lock issue, except typically that goes away when the lines cool down. The only thing I can think of that would explain your symptoms is if the vapor leaks out where the fuel would not. Then the line, or a portion of it, needs to be refilled before it will get fuel to the cylinder.

That almost makes sense except I don't see why it would take 8 hours. Two or three hours sitting after being hot should be plenty, even if it was a slow leak. The bike would be pretty much cooled off by then as well.

I can't think of any way to verify that outside a shop where they could either hook up the fuel line pressure tester or peer down the throttle bodies and perform an injector test after it's sat overnight.

 

[barneyz71]

I'd almost think some sort of vapor lock issue, except typically that goes away when the lines cool down. The only thing I can think of that would explain your symptoms is if the vapor leaks out where the fuel would not. Then the line, or a portion of it, needs to be refilled before it will get fuel to the cylinder.

That almost makes sense except I don't see why it would take 8 hours. Two or three hours sitting after being hot should be plenty, even if it was a slow leak. The bike would be pretty much cooled off by then as well.

I can't think of any way to verify that outside a shop where they could either hook up the fuel line pressure tester or peer down the throttle bodies and perform an injector test after it's sat overnight.

I think you may be on to something here. It does seem like it could be a vapor lock issue.
This morning I had the starting issue... got it running and took it for a ride. I then parked it for 7 hours before trying to start it again. After 7 hours it started right up... sounded like it was going to quit within a second or two of starting but it did not. Once the bike has started it will restart great and runs and idles fine. If I go 8 to 10 hours or longer I have a very hard time getting it started.

 

[Tarkus]

Consider having the dealership keep the bike overnight. Perhaps all week so they can replicate the starting problem. If they can't figure it out in the first couple of days ask the service manager to call his regional Service Tech. He should do this on his own but sometimes they need to be reminded.

 

[barneyz71]

Consider having the dealership keep the bike overnight. Perhaps all week so they can replicate the starting problem. If they can't figure it out in the first couple of days ask the service manager to call his regional Service Tech. He should do this on his own but sometimes they need to be reminded.

They are trying to get a hold of someone about the warranty end of it. I offered to leave it when I was in Saturday over night but they declined. I honestly don't think they have any idea whats wrong with it and want to make sure they get paid while they figure it out. I think that's why they didn't want to keep it when I was in Saturday. They are going to give me a call tomorrow and let me know what the next move is.

 

[elmangaso]

I seem to be having the same problem (difficult start after >10hrs) with my brand new Monster 1100. The first 150 miles (week or so of riding) I had no problem. It took ~10 attempts the last 2 mornings. I haven't talked to my mechanic yet, but I'm wondering if I put the wrong kind of fuel in. I put 93 octane in after skimming the manual and seeing that I should use 95 octane. A closer look shows it's 95 'RON' which, after a visit to wikipedia, appears to be the European equivalent of 91 octane. Not sure if this is related, but what fuel are you using?

 

[barneyz71]

I seem to be having the same problem (difficult start after >10hrs) with my brand new Monster 1100. The first 150 miles (week or so of riding) I had no problem. It took ~10 attempts the last 2 mornings. I haven't talked to my mechanic yet, but I'm wondering if I put the wrong kind of fuel in. I put 93 octane in after skimming the manual and seeing that I should use 95 octane. A closer look shows it's 95 'RON' which, after a visit to wikipedia, appears to be the European equivalent of 91 octane. Not sure if this is related, but what fuel are you using?

I am using 93 octane. I am positive my cold starting issues are not octane related.
A lower octane would affect performance and would probably not show up until the bike is hot. AKA spark knock.
I am bringing my bike in again Saturday. If I should find anything out I will post it here as soon as I know.

 

[chris1044]

I am using 93 octane. I am positive my cold starting issues are not octane related.
A lower octane would affect performance and would probably not show up until the bike is hot. AKA spark knock.
I am bringing my bike in again Saturday. If I should find anything out I will post it here as soon as I know.

It most certainty is not an octane issue.

To me, someone new to ducati but with numerous years in automotive repair/OEM powertrain engineering experience, this sounds like an issue with fuel. I'm not 100% familiar with your bike's EFI system, so I'll go on a wild guess and say it's got O2 sensors and has the ability to adjust fuel trims....not sure if this is the case or not.

However, to me it almost sounds like the bike is attempting to lean out the fuel trims which would in fact lead to a starting issue. Typically the on a vehicle the ECU will fatten up the mixture to get it to start. Granted on an automobile there are several inputs that affect the mixture.

It almost sounds like when you ride it the bike's fuel trim goes lean - it tries to lean itself out because of the o2's. When you try to restart, it's a no go until it realizes that it needs to fatten itself up. When you start and let it run for 30 secs it doesn't have enough time to re-adjust trims......just a stab in the dark, but something worth thinking about

 

[WAY]

I am using 98 RON which is the same as your 93 MON. Spoke to the service manager this afternoon, and he reckons that the tune is too lean to meet Euro3 emission, and the odd bike have this issue. It goes away if you have a DP ECU with termis. I told him about barneyz71's experience and him having Termis, and he said sometimes people don't tune their ECU correctly even with the Termis. So Barneyz, maybe you should ask your dealer to also look into retuning your ECU? My dealer is actually the importer of Ducati into Australia and the service manager has a lot of Ducati experience.

 

[asegty]

Guaranteed Fix!

I have a Hyper with the exact same engine/issue. Here's what you do when it's cold: As soon as the starter button is pressed and the engine starts turning over, twist open the throttle 100% then let it snap back fully (100% open to 100% closed AS FAST AS POSSIBLE). Repeat 2 seconds later until the engine fires.

So crank open the throttle and completely let it go in as quick a motion as possible. Your bike will fire!

 

[barneyz71]

It most certainty is not an octane issue.

To me, someone new to ducati but with numerous years in automotive repair/OEM powertrain engineering experience, this sounds like an issue with fuel. I'm not 100% familiar with your bike's EFI system, so I'll go on a wild guess and say it's got O2 sensors and has the ability to adjust fuel trims....not sure if this is the case or not.

However, to me it almost sounds like the bike is attempting to lean out the fuel trims which would in fact lead to a starting issue. Typically the on a vehicle the ECU will fatten up the mixture to get it to start. Granted on an automobile there are several inputs that affect the mixture.

It almost sounds like when you ride it the bike's fuel trim goes lean - it tries to lean itself out because of the o2's. When you try to restart, it's a no go until it realizes that it needs to fatten itself up. When you start and let it run for 30 secs it doesn't have enough time to re-adjust trims......just a stab in the dark, but something worth thinking about

Chris, You are correct it does have O2 sensors and the trim is adjustable.
Thank you for taking the time to read my original post entirely. I will mention your theory to the dealer when I drop the bike off Saturday.

 

[barneyz71]

I have a Hyper with the exact same engine/issue. Here's what you do when it's cold: As soon as the starter button is pressed and the engine starts turning over, twist open the throttle 100% then let it snap back fully (100% open to 100% closed AS FAST AS POSSIBLE). Repeat 2 seconds later until the engine fires.

So crank open the throttle and completely let it go in as quick a motion as possible. Your bike will fire!

asegty, Thanks for the guaranteed fix but... If this does get the bike started faster it is not a fix... it is a band-aid. It is fuel injected and you shouldn't have to twist the throttle to get it running. If it works I would use this technique temporarily but not as a fix. Thank you for taking the time to answer.

 

[elmangaso]

I have a Hyper with the exact same engine/issue. Here's what you do when it's cold: As soon as the starter button is pressed and the engine starts turning over, twist open the throttle 100% then let it snap back fully (100% open to 100% closed AS FAST AS POSSIBLE). Repeat 2 seconds later until the engine fires.

So crank open the throttle and completely let it go in as quick a motion as possible. Your bike will fire!

I was told something similar by the service manager at my shop yesterday, but I haven't tried it yet (already at work). I agree with barneyz71 though in that this is sort of a band-aid fix. I had a carbureted gs500 before the Ducati and it was a bitch to start in the morning...full choke, play with the throttle, let it warm up for 10 min. I got a fuel injected bike to avoid this. I was digging through the forum archives and discovered this last night:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=49891&highlight=fat+duc

Does anyone have any experience with this? Would this fix a starting problem like this or just improve engine idle when already running? From the product website it looks like the Monster 1100 isn't supported yet though...

 

[asegty]

It's just a ducati....

Barney- I think you'll never find the answer you seek. I ride in southern california and i see about 100 ducatis every sunday. Every owner has a maintanence issue that can't be explained. Just do my throttle trick (a lot of guys i know do it) and never think about the issue again. Once you accept the fact it's a ducati and some things can't be explained, you'll sleep better at night and spend more time on the road and less at the shop. If you want 100% predictability, buy a Honda. Good luck my friend......