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Discussion Starter #1
I picked up a set of newer barrels with the internal oil feeds. Can these be modified and mounted to an older engine with external oil feeds. It appears the new barrels have the boss for drilling out to accept a banjo bolt fitting.
Also can an older engine with 2 phase alternator be upgradedto a 3 phase alternator?
 

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Well I do know it is not hard to convert older barrels to run on the FE. I'd gotten some advice from Bruce Meyers on that. Some drilling involved and you use the little 3-bolt plates from a 748-996 cylinder without the hole for the banjo bolt to plug the external lines. But that's not what you asked :)

I'm seeing the reverse process as a bigger problem. First, you'd likely not be able to tap a banjo into the cylinder and so would need to cut out the opening and affix the plate. Your other challenge is drilling the cases to mate up with the internal oil return.

As far as converting to three phase, you'd need a fair bit of hardware to get started: LH cover, flywheel, stator, regulator and I believe the ign pickups are different as well. Come to think of it, the crank spindle is likely longer too. A lot of work for not a lot of upside.
 

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Had another look last evening and I now think you could easily tap into that boss. It's in exactly the same position as on the old barrels with substantial meat around it. All you would have to do then is make sure the return internal oil lines to the crankcase were blocked off. Might be a worthwhile excercise, Bruce had said the new barrels were far superior in cooling to the old ones. The heads are 100% interchangable on these so you know the 0-rings, dowels etc will fit.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't think there are any changes in the crank cases when the 900 went to internal oil ways in the cylider barrels. I think this is the same time they switchedto a 3 phase alternator and the left side cover also changed. Drilling out and tapping the blanked off boss is straight forward. So if the oil return gallies are the same this conversion should work.
 

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I don't have the stuff in front of me but I seem to remember that those external lines are actually drains.They exit into the timing cover and the cyls are fed from the right side of the crankcases.The design at the time was considered an air/oil cooled engine.As I remember it the cyl. was filled with oil from the pump and the external lines are fitted with banjo bolts with a hole in them to act as a metered bleed.The pressure and volume are sufficent to feed the cams and rockers with all the oil they need and the oil in the cyl. jacket absorbs heat to keep the cyl. and head temps stable.There may be differences in the oil pumps between the models to allow for the volumes required.So I guess the cyls. should work without modification.Do the later cyls. have the freeze plugs in the tops that seal the oil jackets?
 

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Oh! forgot to mention that the oil returns from the heads are the same as they have been since the singles.They are the holes that line up with the notches in the crankcases.Thats how the valve collets that are dropped wind up on the drain plug magnet.
 

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I don't have the stuff in front of me but I seem to remember that those external lines are actually drains.....
No doubt they are drains so that's why I thought there must be a new internal line now taking its place.

Interesting comments on the purpose of the external lines as an oil restrictor to improve cooling. Makes you wonder how the new barrels have achieved superior cooling without it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Seems odd to have a drain under pressure going through a small bore banjo bolt
 

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When MBP did the heads of my ST2, they converted to external lines.

As far as the cylinders, this meant inserting a grub screw (one with no head) to block the internal line in the cylinder.

Tom
 

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ST2,What MBP likely did was re route the oil feed to the cyl heads.Does the oil line connect to the left cam bearing block?Is that line fed off of the oil cooler? The idea behind that is to provide cooler oil to the cam and rockers.By plugging the route through the cyl. it means the oil isn't heated by the cyl. or head before it goes to the cam.With the synthetic oils we have these days the heat it picks up on the way isn't as critical as it used to be but the plumbing does look cool. Ian, The metered drain allows the oil in the cylinder to pick up heat by keeping it in the cyl. longer because it absorbs heat more slowly that water would.
 

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Chilehead
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ST2,What MBP likely did was re route the oil feed to the cyl heads.Does the oil line connect to the left cam bearing block?Is that line fed off of the oil cooler? The idea behind that is to provide cooler oil to the cam and rockers.By plugging the route through the cyl. it means the oil isn't heated by the cyl. or head before it goes to the cam.With the synthetic oils we have these days the heat it picks up on the way isn't as critical as it used to be but the plumbing does look cool. Ian, The metered drain allows the oil in the cylinder to pick up heat by keeping it in the cyl. longer because it absorbs heat more slowly that water would.
Yes, now there is a line from the oil pressure sender to the heads. Probably needed as they modified the heads and maybe internal oil passages.

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #12
There is one wrinkle to all this that isn't common. I have MBP heads. These heads have a separate external oil feed that goes to the cam shaft cover. The internal oil feeds from the barrels to the heads are plugged off as is the oil way in the top of the cylinderbarrel that mates to the head ..., So with these heads and newer barrels will the oil still circulate through the barrels?
and yes there are freeze plugs in these newer barrels but in different locations.
 

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Chilehead
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There is one wrinkle to all this that isn't common. I have MBP heads. These heads have a separate external oil feed that goes to the cam shaft cover. The internal oil feeds from the barrels to the heads are plugged off as is the oil way in the top of the cylinderbarrel that mates to the head ..., So with these heads and newer barrels will the oil still circulate through the barrels?
and yes there are freeze plugs in these newer barrels but in different locations.
No, it won't. The plug in the barrel is to prevent leaks, but the heads are blocked in any case. Just put a plug in the new barrels to be sure.

Tom
 

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There is one wrinkle to all this that isn't common. I have MBP heads. These heads have a separate external oil feed that goes to the cam shaft cover. The internal oil feeds from the barrels to the heads are plugged off as is the oil way in the top of the cylinderbarrel that mates to the head ..., So with these heads and newer barrels will the oil still circulate through the barrels?
and yes there are freeze plugs in these newer barrels but in different locations.
You've got a lot of moving parts here Ian. I wouldn't think re-routing the oil infeed and blocking the stock infeed would affect the oil return system. Red Heads...nice. Might be interesting to hear what Martin has to say on this project.

BTW, are you going to the Italian Bike and Car show next Sunday? Waterfront park, North Van. I'll be there on my Superlight.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
We are going to Toronto on Wednesday. won't be back until tuesday the 23rd

we should meet some time though Do the Italian bike fans still gather on the 1st tuesday of the month on Commercial Drive?
 

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....Do the Italian bike fans still gather on the 1st tuesday of the month on Commercial Drive?
Last Tues of the month Cafe Calabria on Commercial at 7th ish. Bunch of older bikes though with some newer stuff. Fritz kind of coordinates it as he does the bike part of the Italian Car and Bike show every Fathers' Day. I haven't been for a long while but there can be quite a line up.
 
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