Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello
I don't suppose many of you are as obsessed as I am with ECU's at the moment, but I'm at the point of adding fuel/fire to my mod'ed St and getting her on the dyno.
I was talking to Fred Snyder of Silverback Performance last week about some FIM issues, and he mentioned that Nemesis had just released a new generation III ECU that was designed to work with non CAN-Bus bikes, such as 996 motors. Well, what do ya know....
As far as he, and the Nemesis rep. knew, it had never been tried on a 4S, but I reckon I'll give it a go. There is some speculation that the LCD gauge may not function, and it may play havoc with the immobilizer system.
I reckon a 996 dash with an analog temp. gauge and a fuel idiot light will suffice for the former, and the latter can be corrected by judiciously removing immobilizer components.
Anyway, the Nemesis boasts user-friendly tuning capability that we have never enjoyed before, and for any modified motor, it's a dream come true.
I'm thinking I'll be in a spot to have to modify my ignition timing, so if this doesn't work, I may be stuck piggybacking a PCIII on a FIM. (My dyno guy won't map the fuel on a FIM, it's a PITA...)

I'll post updates....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Yup!

Well, this is obviously a very hot topic with many of you.

But, for whatever it's worth, I installed the Nemesis in my "St" 4S and it worked like a charm.
All of the gauges, etc. worked like usual. LCD readouts were normal, all of them.
The only anomaly was that the radiator fan "primed" when the fuel pump did when the key was turned, then it turned itself off. Kind of reassuring, I reckon.
I loaded the "998" map that came on the disc and she fired right up.

My dyno guy is eager to tweak. I'm eager to let him.
 

·
Still needs a life.
Joined
·
12,619 Posts
Well, this is obviously a very hot topic with many of you.

But, for whatever it's worth, I installed the Nemesis in my "St" 4S and it worked like a charm.
To clarify, that would be your 02-ST4s?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hello
'02 w/ '03 engine.
No baseline, 'cause it's a completely built motor. I'm just trying to get something to mesh with all the previous breathing work it's had done to it.
Sounds pretty snappy, though....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Bear in mind that the ST4s and the S4R are more or less the same engine and exhaust-wise, so the maps that come on the recent PC discs in particular for the S4R will do fine for the ST4s. That was what I used on mine till I got it custom tuned on a Dyno.

A
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Nemesis

Guido,keep the updates coming.Some of us are very interested!Does this Nemisis take the place of DP ecu ,or is it in addition to.I really know very little about fuel injection mapping so this is interesting as I would like some perf. mods too.Also,did you ever install TPO stacks?I noticed on their site it now states they may not fit with stock air filter on ST4s.I have full DP kit on my 04 ST4s (K&N) and would be looking to get a set if they fit.Thanks,Jim.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
No Beast...

Hello, JPSpinfisher
I bought a set of the TPO "Beast" intakes, but it was pretty obvious they weren't going to fit. I installed one of them and it extended at least an inch above the top of my airbox. No way the filter would install.
They refunded my $$$, but it appears they are still marketing them for "ST4" on eBay. Too bad, they looked pretty cool.....
The Nemesis is a replacement ECU. It is adjustable for just about any parameter that the ECU controls.
You can adjust ignition timing, fan threshold, just all kinds of different stuff that using a PCIII don't allow you to do, plus you can do it to each cylinder individually.
You can load two different maps and toggle between them on the fly.
It's pretty much the last word in ECU's.
The 999/749 & 1098/1198 guys are pretty hot for 'em, I imagine there's some discussion on those forums pertaining to 'em.

Hope this helps...
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,823 Posts
Can you post up an approximate cost for the conversion?

Thanks.
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,823 Posts
That is an appealing price for the ST4s guys struggling with ECU failures and something I could since my teeth into down the road if I get around to timing the cams.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
887 Posts
That is an appealing price for the ST4s guys struggling with ECU failures and something I could since my teeth into down the road if I get around to timing the cams.
Don't under-estimate the amount of $$ to program the thing - it is no simple matter to develop an entire ignition/fuel map that works well at every point. It is a bit more complicated than many imagine due to so many different real world conditions of trailing throttle at various rpm's, etc. At certain rpm's there are resonance effects and if these are not mapped properly the result will be less than perfect.

It would be much more appealling if there were standard and performance ST4s maps available that were as good as the OEM and DP maps. In time this may be the case but the Ducati developed maps might still have an advantage in certain areas. One thing I would hesitate to give up is the 230-240+ mile range that I can achieve with the DP ECU even with a mix of sporty riding and higher speed cruising all while retaining buttery smooth throttle response under all conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
OEM and DP Availability

Hello, Mike
I agree, for most applications, the OEM or DP ECU is the way to go. Problem is, as Tonerd mentioned, as we're starting to log the miles and years, these ECU's are failing, and unfortunately, the supply of them is very limited.
I searced high and low for a DP U59 for my '03 4S a couple of months ago when my original decided to play like a SuperMono. They may be out there, but I reckon you're going to be pretty lucky to find one.
Installing a used OEM is a bit of a crap shoot, since they are likely as old and as used-up as the one you are replacing.
I finally settled on a used OEM/PCIII combo, but obviously, that's gonna include some dyno tinkering, and will likely never be just perfect. My '03 is not as smooth now as it was with my original ECU "touched-up" by AMS when I bought the bike.
I guess some of us are just worried that this pesky ECU may be the Achilles' heel of an otherwise fine and durable machine.
Thaat may be where having the Nemesis as an option might keep some bikes on the road that otherwise would be scrapped. Hopefully some base maps can be developed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
88 Posts
Are the DP ECU's still available?
 

·
unM0derator
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
Are the DP ECU's still available?
They should be. All of the physical boxes are the same for each series 5.9 / 5.A. And there are plenty left since Ducati needs to keep 10 years of spares for stock bikes by law.

The dealer says that all Ducati does before sending out an ECU (replacement or DP), is to just flash the part with the correct map. Since it's just a download, they don't need to stock each particular ECU. I'm sure that they probably make small batches for the warehouse though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
the webber 59M ecu is extremely available and cheap as beans. All it takes is someone that knows how to reprogram it to suit a ducati and you are all set.

I believe the 59M on my st4s is from a fiat reprogrammed with the DP management system, but really it doesn't matter as long as it works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Well, technically the DP stuff is not OEM. It was an aftermarket supplier that was kind of endorsed by Ducati, if I understood that correctly.
So, the "ten year rule" may apply to the OEM "stock" ECU's, but possibly would not to the DP stuff.
I know a year or so ago I searched far and wide for a DP unit, with no joy. Maybe I was just looking in the wrong places......
 

·
unM0derator
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
Well, technically the DP stuff is not OEM. It was an aftermarket supplier that was kind of endorsed by Ducati, if I understood that correctly.
So, the "ten year rule" may apply to the OEM "stock" ECU's, but possibly would not to the DP stuff.
I know a year or so ago I searched far and wide for a DP unit, with no joy. Maybe I was just looking in the wrong places......
You are correct that DP is not OEM. It's actually an umbrella of parts from different manufacturers. In most cases, Ducati will stop production of the accessories pretty quickly in a models life.

The only exception to this, is that the DP and OEM ECU are the same part, but just have different software. In all cases, the ECU comes from Ducati when you order a DP pipe kit. According to my dealer, you should still be able to order the DP ECU, but the cost is quite outrageous.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
260 Posts
the webber 59M ecu is extremely available and cheap as beans. All it takes is someone that knows how to reprogram it to suit a ducati and you are all set.

I believe the 59M on my st4s is from a fiat reprogrammed with the DP management system, but really it doesn't matter as long as it works.
When you say cheap, how much, and where do you get it? Also, who reprogrammed yours?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
I know it's been a while, but are you still using the Nemesis ECU Guido, and if so, how has it been working for you over these years? Plus, did you get it Dynoed and what was the performance outcome?
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top