[ericjansen]

I checked the valve clearances this afternoon, and found some of them quite out of spec (0.05~0.25mm for the worst opening, 0.40mm for the largest closing)
Enough reason to adjust them.

So I removed the cams, have the opening shims out, and tried to measure the present thickness.
I however don't have the special Ducati shim-measuring tool, so did it with a thickness-micro meter.
The micrometer is slightly loose in the shim, it seems to be fine and measuring correct.

I also removed one of the closing shims, but there my problem starts.
I tried to find an alternative to measure these shims, but so far without a reliable result.
I can send the shims to Japan to have them checked and have them sending new ones, but I prefer to measure them myself first.

Any suggestions or smart ideas?

By the way, are Ducati shims going up per 0.01mm?

Eric

 

[thelumox]

all the shims i've seen are in increments of 0.05mm. you really need the measurement tool for closers, using a mic on openers works well. Mike at EMSDUC.COM is a supporting vendor on this site, and a great guy to deal with regarding all things desmodromic. the shim kit is a little expensive, but for me was worth the convenience. trying to measure and order individual shims can become a nightmare

 

[TomTom]

Mike at EMS is higly recommended, quick and helpful, he'll sort it out for you.

 

[kaos]

the ems shim kit is well worth the money .one other piece of advise,order up a bunch of halfrings.that way your prepared for any ''suspect'' ones you remove,and also replacing good rings with new rings can put those almost in spec valves,in spec

 

[ducatimike]

Hi Eric,
You really need the closer measurement tool to measure the closer shims. There is a radius on the inside counterbore and it ends right at the ID of the shim. If you try and get a micrometer down there, it will inevitabley contact on that radius and give you the wrong measurement.

The shims come in .05 mm increments.

Two ways to go here. Order the closer measurement tool. Measure the shims and order the shims you need, or get a complete kit which includes the measurement tool. Shipping under a pound to China is about $13.00, shipping a kit would be about $30.00.

Am including a pic of the measurement tool in use. This is the 8 mm tool, but works the same way as the 7 mm tool.

Mike

 

[tye1138]

I actually took a screw and milled it down so it would fit properly in the shim. So when you measure it with the caliper's, you can get a pretty accurate measurement. The only catch is, those stock desmoquattro shims arn't labeled... The testastretta ones are, so you really can't "test" your tool if you make one to insure its correct.

Ohh and Mike is the right guy to talk with!



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[ericjansen]

I actually took a screw and milled it down so it would fit properly in the shim. So when you measure it with the caliper's, you can get a pretty accurate measurement. The only catch is, those stock desmoquattro shims arn't labeled... The testastretta ones are, so you really can't "test" your tool if you make one to insure its correct.

Ohh and Mike is the right guy to talk with!

Yeah, I am a same kind of guy.
Had the same thought on fabricating something, not for the cost saving but just as I am in this "remote" part of the world without a Ducati service centre.

Seems the advise is all going the same direction, I will contact Mike directly.
Thanks for all advice, appreciated!

Eric

 

[ericjansen]

Received the shim measuring tool from Mike (thx mate!) and have taken all shims out / measured. Everything seems to go smooth, new shims are on order already.

However, on one closing valve (intake, hor. cyl.), one of the half moons came out in 2 pieces. I got both parts and not afraid someting is left in the engine.

But...can this indicate a bigger problem, or is it just something that happens, and solved by replacing with a new one?

 

[748girl]

Received the shim measuring tool from Mike (thx mate!) and have taken all shims out / measured. Everything seems to go smooth, new shims are on order already.

However, on one closing valve (intake, hor. cyl.), one of the half moons came out in 2 pieces. I got both parts and not afraid someting is left in the engine.

But...can this indicate a bigger problem, or is it just something that happens, and solved by replacing with a new one?

Eric,

When we service our bikes, we replace all the collets at 20,000km intervals*, before doing so we measure clearances, then replace the collets and measure again. I am tipping the broken collets were on the closer that had the biggest clearance, so replace all your collets, measure again and then go from there.

Questions for you. When were the collets last replaced - Do you know? Do you track the bike, if you ride it hard they can from time to time they can bust a collet like yours has and ours has too. Its no big deal - it might seem expensive to replace them all, but its worth to do.

*Mind you they are looked at 10,000km as well and if clearances are out then we might do it then too.

 

[Bella749]

Collets break, it's just the way it is. If a piece fell out, it will most likely just make it as far as the oil sump and come out with the next oil change.

 

[frankfast]

Checking clearances is tough, especially with the motor still in the bike. I bought a set of long feeler guages to check the clearances between the closing rocker and cam and they worked well. Regular sized feeler gauges are too short. The exaust side of the vertical cylinder is still difficult to get at but it can be done. I just finished checking and found one set of intake closing shims to be .001" too tight. That's not enough for me to pull the rockers and cams. It's my experience that the newer desmos stay within spec better than the older bevel drive bikes (and have greater tolerances) if set up correctly at the factory. My '01 996 only has 5000 miles on it but I feel better now that I've checked clearances. It's a pain but I can't afford what a dealer charges for this, especially if the bike needs different shims. I also suspect that some dealers may charge for valve adjustment and not do it correctly or at all. It's a difficult procedure and time consuming even for a good mechanic.

 

[ericjansen]

Spot on answers, great!

I am working on the Bayliss right now, not the new bike. No history here also though. Reason why I bit the bullet and learning myself to not only measure the clearance, but also change the shims. Besides of the bit more work then a Jap bike still not that big deal so far.

It's indeed is on the largest clearance one, they seemed to be far off spec, and this one, which has the broken collet, indeed had the largest clearance (0.40).

I will follow your advise and replace them for peace of mind, but understand it is "part of a Ducati".

Eric

 

[corndog67]

OK, I've got the S4/916 4 valve. It's about valve adjust time. Anyone got any drawings of the tools I need, with measurements, to do the job correctly? I have the online factory manual pdf. file, but it is a bitch to try to "thumb through" and find info. Is the Haynes manual an easier way to go than the factory shop manual? Any info would be appreciated. If I need to make the tools, I have a mill, a lathe and a Tig welder.

Or does anyone sell the tools for a reasonable price?

Thanks. Robert.

 

[748girl]

OK, I've got the S4/916 4 valve. It's about valve adjust time. Anyone got any drawings of the tools I need, with measurements, to do the job correctly? I have the online factory manual pdf. file, but it is a bitch to try to "thumb through" and find info. Is the Haynes manual an easier way to go than the factory shop manual? Any info would be appreciated. If I need to make the tools, I have a mill, a lathe and a Tig welder.

Or does anyone sell the tools for a reasonable price?

Thanks. Robert.

Corndog, for our 748 we have both the Haynes and Factory manual and we use both. Its going to be more fiddly than the job Eric is currently doing cos its not a Testastretta. Husband keeps saying to me can't we just sell the 748 before it needs doing again

I know this website is for 2 valve adjustment but it is the same principles really - just keep referring to YOUR manuals. Look at this website for some help and reference to tools. http://www.ducatisuite.com/valves.html

You might like to start your own thread about this then it won't get lost with Eric's stuff.

 

[860GT]

Get the manual from Desmo Times. $30.

 

[ericjansen]

Corndog, for our 748 we have both the Haynes and Factory manual and we use both. Its going to be more fiddly than the job Eric is currently doing cos its not a Testastretta. Husband keeps saying to me can't we just sell the 748 before it needs doing again

I know this website is for 2 valve adjustment but it is the same principles really - just keep referring to YOUR manuals. Look at this website for some help and reference to tools. http://www.ducatisuite.com/valves.html

You might like to start your own thread about this then it won't get lost with Eric's stuff.

You realize that by being AND knowledgeable AND answering me so quickly and accurately, I am going to bother you forever with my beginner questions he?

 

[ducatimike]

The 4V desmoquattro bikes require you to pull the spindles that hold the opening rocker arms to slide them over to get to the opening shim. Also allows you to remove the opening rocker and check for the dreaded flaking problem. The end of the spindles have a 5 mm female thread to screw in a puller. You can make your own with a 5 mm thread stock or buy the one designed for this purpose.

To measure clearances there are two ways on the desmoquattro: Snake a long feeler guage up around the cam where the rocker actuates. This measures the closer clearance directly with the cam. Some people prefer this method, but it doenst work for me. I measure the loaded-unloaded clearances on the opener shim and calculate the closer clearance. I find this method much easier. To do this you have to push down on the closing rocker arm to get your loaded clearance. You can use a screw driver but be careful, because if it slips off it can impale the valve seal below (how do I know this!). I came up with a rocker depressor that is blunt on the end and hooks over the fork of the closer rocker.

Mike

 

[748girl]

You realize that by being AND knowledgeable AND answering me so quickly and accurately, I am going to bother you forever with my beginner questions he?

Eric there are lots of knowledgeable people on here who know far far more than me. You just got me on a lucky day with something I knew a little bit about. I have a good teacher though and am always happy to try and help if I can. Like you I like to learn and apparently now the Red bike is mine to ride I have to service it too with a bit of help for the really tough stuff.